Does anyone make a cheap lightweight muffler for the 986?

[grantsfo]

Why isnt there a sub 20 lb sport/racing muffler, that makes better than stock HP for around $400 to $500? Am I expecting too much?

I dont care about booming or droning sounds, just a muffler for my track and AX car that sheds some weight and doesnt lose HP over stock.

Everytime I look I find lightweight boxster mufflers they are a bazillion dollars? If some enterprizing Chinese factory can make lightweight stainless steel 986 headers for $99 why no cheapo lightweight mufflers?

[sd_boxster]

...or bypass pipes for that matter? $500 for $30 worth of piping. Grr! I want a pair, but not $500 bad.

Sorry to rant in your thread.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

14 Lbs. lighter stock exhaust.

10 HP to the wheels

http://www.maxspeed-motorsports.com/986nhpmuffler.html

I am doing a full exhaust install right now (claim 20 plus) and will post personal dyno results.

keep in mind factory inlet exhaust piping is 1 1/2 inch. that's tiny.

[sd_boxster]

Awesome - look forward to seeing how your install goes. I don't think this answers the OP's question, as the Maxspeed falls into the "bazillion dollars" category.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by sd_boxster

Awesome - look forward to seeing how your install goes. I don't think this answers the OP's question, as the Maxspeed falls into the "bazillion dollars" category.

You get what you pay for. Its T304 stainless, 5 year warranty, no baffles straight through. etc............

Honestly I think $849 is a fair price. I have seen similar exahust for 2X the cost. Maybe consider selling the Porshce and picking up a honda or something you can get $59 headers and exhaust for them all day long. just IMO.

Well the exhaust is waiting, As soon as I can get home I will post the Install.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by sd_boxster

...or bypass pipes for that matter? $500 for $30 worth of piping. Grr! I want a pair, but not $500 bad.

Sorry to rant in your thread.

iPhone costs $100 in material to produce, why would Apple sell it for $299? It's a retorical question.

[sd_boxster]

Not sure where the rhetoric is - Fabspeed Sport Headers cost $1195, yet there are eBay headers for ~$100. OP's question was why isn't there a similarly cheap "knockoff" muffler, and I chimed in with bypass pipes, which are significantly less complicated than a muffler - and a lot less complex than the $100 Chinese headers. If there's enough of a market to warrant cranking out the headers, there's also enough market to warrant production of a cheap muffler and cheap bypass pipes...

Incidentally, Apple doesn't sell the iPhone for $299. The $299 price requires you to sign up for their exorbitantly priced data plan. If you want an iPhone ala carte, it'll cost you $600-$700. You can pay $199 by signing a contract, but either way, you're going to spend $600 on an iPhone. My BlackBerry has the functionality of an iPhone, but I didn't pay anything for the phone, and I pay $20 for my data plan. OP and I don't _want_ "Apple" mufflers and bypass pipes... we'd be happy with Samsung ones.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by sd_boxster

Not sure where the rhetoric is - Fabspeed Sport Headers cost $1195, yet there are eBay headers for ~$100. OP's question was why isn't there a similarly cheap "knockoff" muffler, and I chimed in with bypass pipes, which are significantly less complicated than a muffler - and a lot less complex than the $100 Chinese headers. If there's enough of a market to warrant cranking out the headers, there's also enough market to warrant production of a cheap muffler and cheap bypass pipes...

Incidentally, Apple doesn't sell the iPhone for $299. The $299 price requires you to sign up for their exorbitantly priced data plan. If you want an iPhone ala carte, it'll cost you $600-$700. You can pay $199 by signing a contract, but either way, you're going to spend $600 on an iPhone. My BlackBerry has the functionality of an iPhone, but I didn't pay anything for the phone, and I pay $20 for my data plan. OP and I don't _want_ "Apple" mufflers and bypass pipes... we'd be happy with Samsung ones.

I know exactly what you are saying. It's because the pipes are going on a Porsche. It's the name and the demand. not a huge honda market demand for the pipes. If you just want bypass pipes, you could probably get someone to fab them up for $100 to $200, i don't know. but a lot cheaper.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by grantsfo

Why isnt there a sub 20 lb sport/racing muffler, that makes better than stock HP for around $400 to $500? Am I expecting too much?

I dont care about booming or droning sounds, just a muffler for my track and AX car that sheds some weight and doesnt lose HP over stock.

Everytime I look I find lightweight boxster mufflers they are a bazillion dollars? If some enterprizing Chinese factory can make lightweight stainless steel 986 headers for $99 why no cheapo lightweight mufflers?

You free market capitalists are all alike. You want to exploit cheap labor just to save a few bucks. You want to dirty up China's air and contribute to global warming, all just to satisfy your urge to go faster.

What is wrong with you? Go buy a Prius and drive less.

Oh, wait a minute, wrong post. Sorry.

[sd_boxster]

I'd be just as happy to buy the pipes from an ex-hippie producing bypass pipes in a solar-powered machine shop out of free-range 304 stainless.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by sd_boxster

I'd be just as happy to buy the pipes from an ex-hippie producing bypass pipes in a solar-powered machine shop out of free-range 304 stainless.

LMAO that's going be in my signature for another forum.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by sd_boxster

Not sure where the rhetoric is - Fabspeed Sport Headers cost $1195, yet there are eBay headers for ~$100. OP's question was why isn't there a similarly cheap "knockoff" muffler, and I chimed in with bypass pipes, which are significantly less complicated than a muffler - and a lot less complex than the $100 Chinese headers. If there's enough of a market to warrant cranking out the headers, there's also enough market to warrant production of a cheap muffler and cheap bypass pipes...

Because that $1195 Fabspeed exhaust is garanteed to fit, garantee there will not be a CEL, tested to ensure it fits on all models, and tuned to the sound they're designed to make.

R&D such as designing a jig for the exhaust cost $.

Geez, you should check how much Tubi exhaust for our cars go for, they're also a bunch of pipes you know.

More importantly, instead of sitting in front of your computer whinning why don't you make this as your business opportunity to startup a business making exhaust for us? I garantee you you'll get tons of customers if you sell it half price of what fabspeed is selling. The demand is there. Make them in China like you said. You already know your first step.

[j.fro]

I've been thinking for a while about building some cheap, lightweight mufflers...so here goes:
Would you pay $300 for a straight-through design muffler that's half the weight of the stock muffler? The catch is that it wouldn't be stainless steel, but rather mild steel with high temp flat black paint .

By the way, I priced out building cat bypass pipes from stainless, and the cost for the materials plus the labor to build was over $350...At $495 the Fabspeed pipes really don't have such an obscene mark-up after all.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by j.fro

By the way, I priced out building cat bypass pipes from stainless, and the cost for the materials plus the labor to build was over $350...At $495 the Fabspeed pipes really don't have such an obscene mark-up after all.

Thankyou Exactly. T304 is not that cheap and quality welding stainless? I know I don't stand a chance. also I personally wouldn't put anything less than t304 if you plan on keeping your car more than a couple years. Mild steel will be rusted by then and high temp paint will not stay on either. A coating process may stand a chance.

[sd_boxster]

I'll get right on that. I'll sell them for $99 US, $850 Canadian.

Originally Posted by ekam

More importantly, instead of sitting in front of your computer whinning why don't you make this as your business opportunity to startup a business making exhaust for us? I garantee you you'll get tons of customers if you sell it half price of what fabspeed is selling. The demand is there. Make them in China like you said. You already know your first step.

[sd_boxster]

Good info... makes one wonder how the eBay headers get here for $100. Materials, manufacturing, packaging, and freight, plus (conceivably) some markup for a couple of middlemen along the way. Even with China's scorched-earth manufacturing practices and impossibly low labor costs, it's hard to understand how the product can be manufactured and shipped halfway around the world to sell at that price.

Originally Posted by j.fro

By the way, I priced out building cat bypass pipes from stainless, and the cost for the materials plus the labor to build was over $350...At $495 the Fabspeed pipes really don't have such an obscene mark-up after all.

[loosecannon]

I had the same problems with the exhaust systems on the market-too heavy and too expensive. I landed up making my own and it was so easy I made 3 versions now to fine tune the sound. For my 2004 986, I ordered 7/8" mandrel bent u-tube from Jeg's and after cutting it in half, I have two perfect exhaust pipes that bolt right up to the pipes left vacant by removing the stock exhaust. I'll try to get pics on here tomorrow but here's what I found: straight pipes without resonators or mufflers make an amazing race car sound-I guarantee that the hairs on the back of your neck will stand up as the car passes 4000 rpm. Imagine a Ferrari F430 and you get the idea. It drones from 2000-3000 rpm, especially with the top up but driving one gear lower makes it easy to live with. I made a resonator by drilling 8mm holes all around the pipes in a section about 6 inches long then slid a 2 1/4 pipe over top and welded it to the inner pipe, this reduced the volume of the drone and on a wide open throttle drive by a db meter 40 feet away, it reached 96 db. Since then I made a 3rd example with the only difference being the size of the resonator pipe increased to 3"-this IMO is nearly perfect. You can sneak up on someone if you keep the rpm low but mash the throttle and it makes an otherworldly sound. It still drones a little from 2000-3000 rpm but would only drive me crazy if I had to listen to it on a road trip, in which case I would just drive fast enough to get above 3000 rpm. I took the car to a local track day and two Boxster owners came up and demanded to know where I got the exhaust. One has commissioned me to make one for him and the other took my 2nd example as a template to make his own. I still have two more mandrel pipes so I can make two more versions. By the way, the whole thing with stainless tips weighs 8 lbs. Also, the tips play a big role in the tone of the exhaust, bigger tips lower the tone, smaller tips raise the tone. I will put the car on a dyno tomorrow night and get video but I doubt the audio will be good quality.

[2K3_Boxster_S]

Originally Posted by loosecannon

I had the same problems with the exhaust systems on the market-too heavy and too expensive. I landed up making my own and it was so easy I made 3 versions now to fine tune the sound. For my 2004 986, I ordered 7/8" mandrel bent u-tube from Jeg's and after cutting it in half, I have two perfect exhaust pipes that bolt right up to the pipes left vacant by removing the stock exhaust. I'll try to get pics on here tomorrow but here's what I found: straight pipes without resonators or mufflers make an amazing race car sound-I guarantee that the hairs on the back of your neck will stand up as the car passes 4000 rpm. Imagine a Ferrari F430 and you get the idea. It drones from 2000-3000 rpm, especially with the top up but driving one gear lower makes it easy to live with. I made a resonator by drilling 8mm holes all around the pipes in a section about 6 inches long then slid a 2 1/4 pipe over top and welded it to the inner pipe, this reduced the volume of the drone and on a wide open throttle drive by a db meter 40 feet away, it reached 96 db. Since then I made a 3rd example with the only difference being the size of the resonator pipe increased to 3"-this IMO is nearly perfect. You can sneak up on someone if you keep the rpm low but mash the throttle and it makes an otherworldly sound. It still drones a little from 2000-3000 rpm but would only drive me crazy if I had to listen to it on a road trip, in which case I would just drive fast enough to get above 3000 rpm. I took the car to a local track day and two Boxster owners came up and demanded to know where I got the exhaust. One has commissioned me to make one for him and the other took my 2nd example as a template to make his own. I still have two more mandrel pipes so I can make two more versions. By the way, the whole thing with stainless tips weighs 8 lbs. Also, the tips play a big role in the tone of the exhaust, bigger tips lower the tone, smaller tips raise the tone. I will put the car on a dyno tomorrow night and get video but I doubt the audio will be good quality.

just curious what is your whole setup from headers back? still running stock front CATS??? interested in the dyno results. related to my NHP thread.

[Brad Roberts]

Grant,

I have a Flowmaster setup we have used for years.. makes the car sound like it is doing 9k rpm at 4krpm. Dual in dual out.. and I cap the out and access the center chamber for a center exit exhaust. Light, simple, cheap, effective. I believe I end up with $350 in them.. and they last..

Here it is on a 914.. imagine all this hidden well by the stock Boxster rear bumper. For some reason I have not shot pictures of it on a Boxster.. but Chris Murray runs the same thing on his "Cop car" Boxster race car.









B

[Brucelee]

I like the car but the muffler is pretty ugly!