Poll:IMS related engine failure

[stephen wilson]

So Jake, can you confirm a change in '06? Is it any improvement? I only harp on this because I'm ready to buy, and in my price range I'm looking at an '03-'04 S, or an '06 base model. I would only consider a newer base model if engine reliability was improved.
Thanks,
Steve

[jihowell@portfoliode]

I have just experienced the joy of an IMS failure. I have a 2004 Boxster S special edition. The car has 30,290 miles and went out of warrenty about 6 months ago.

There was absolutely no warning that anything was wrong. Driving along and stop at a light and hear THUMP..THUMP..THUMP. Shut down the engine. Restart and no noise...drive slowly and the engine light comes on. Drive 2 miles to the dealer (lucky for me) and while he is getting me a loaner my wife asks me if I'd be surprised that oil was pouring out from under the car.

When we drove to the dealer, the engine was running without noticable problems except for the original THUMP..THUMP..THUMP. The car never had a temperature issue or and oil pressure issue.

New Engine ... here I come. THank goodness for extended warrenties.

[MikenOH]

Did your dealer suggest approaching Porsche with a warranty claim despite being out of the warranty period? Porsche has offered at least a partial fix for those in a similar situation but having an extended warranty may have made that issue mute.

Who is your coverage with and how have they responded so far?

[philintl]

Hi Guys:

Just sold my 1997 Boxster with 254,500 miles on it. Yes that's right 254,500. The car never had any engine, transmission or clutch problems whatsoever and ran as strong as it did when I purschased it in July 2005 with 52,052 miles on it. I put over 202,000 miles on it and only replaced two water pumps and one fuel pump. The water pumps seem to last about 120,000 miles. The fuel pump was replaced at 225,000 miles. The car still had the original engine, transmission and clutch with no work done on these components whatsoever. My car was built in Stuttgart. I strongly endorse 1997 Boxsters. I am surprised to hear that they are subject to intermediate shaft bearing failure as I had heard that only the second series Boxsters from 2000 onwards suffered from these problems whereas the 2.5 liters had sleeving issues namely the 1998 models built in Finland. I am strongly considering purchasing another 1997. What can anyone tell me about 1997 shaft bearing failures. Thanks.

[986Shaft]

2003 Boxster S with IMS Failure at 59,679 miles. Bought it last January and was not aware of engine failure issues, so no extended warranty. No help from Porsche (yes, I've tried). WP0CB29853U662794

Posted safety complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and complaint with BBB. I'm disappointed at how few complaints NHTSA has registered.

Car has been sitting in our garage for a month, and I don't see any solution. It's not worth fixing - unless a miracle happened and the bearing failed without destroying the rest of the engine. Is this very likely? Not from what I've read, but would like to hear if it happens sometimes.

It would take about half the vehicle value to put in a used engine - with potential for same failure. Most of the vehicle value to put in a fancy remanufactured engine with corrections.

I don't think it can be sold for much with the IMS failure - anyone know what the car in this condition goes for?

There on many posts on bulletin boards saying that this problem is amplified by the internet . I don't know, but I've got one of the bad ones. If Porsche's statistics on these engines are fine, they should publish them. Maybe then I could stop being pissed at Porsche, and accept it as bad luck.

[texomawaves]

Tranny types: Are the tiptronics less susceptible to IMS failure than the manuals?

and...

Driving habits: If you run em hard, are they more susceptible to IMS failure? I would think so.


btw... I have a 98 Boxster 2.5 w/tiptronic, and drive it like an old man (slow n easy) and always at the posted speeds. It drives my girlfriend nuts that I'm not at least doing 10 over, lol.

Chris

[TEMAGAM74]

My 1999 stock Boxster lost an engine with about 22,500 miles on it . Got a new engine no charge from factory. Way different after that. No more oil leaks. Car sounded better and felt more powerful. Up the 63,000 total miles now and no problems at all

[fishyfishfish]

on my 04 Boxster S 550 SE, 86k miles, just had engine totally rebuilt with aftermarket "fix", don't have the exact details from the engine rebuilder, but cost was 9500 for total rebuild with "fix" and one year warranty on the engine... love the car, so if I get another 85k miles and I won't complain. Bought the car for 24k three years ago and have driven it hard and fast. Car was modded with softtronic, headers w/o primary cats, free flow airbox, but when engine "blew" it was just at idle at a stoplight. Interesting to note that the engine rebuild used more 996 parts than 986 parts, will post list of new parts if interest...

[poorsche1]

01 boxster S 42K miles.
I was replacing the rms last week and had mentioned to a buddy that i wanted to check the ims bearing to see if it was going bad when he, thinking that he was lending a hand removed the flange on the ims bearing before i had locked it in tdc and lossened the tensioners now the bearing is wedged around 2 oclock in the hole . called jack raby on friday and he said to get it retimed. so i have been looking for a porsche guru with the proper tools to come to my house where the car is jacked up and re-time the cams.----So far, Hard to find . --- Today another friend of mine with porsche knowledge but no tools, was over looking at the project and mentioned that he did not think it would need re-timing. so i am posting a picture of what the bearing looks like now with the flange off and still in tension.
I was thinking if i can make a tool out of nylon material in my shop to fit in the inside of the bearing, the outside would be slightly off-center then rotate the tool untill the bearing is centered, then lock the tdc and loosen the tensioners.
now the question is (hopefully jack reads this and can respond) will that put the cams back to where they were before the flange was removed or am i still screwed? and need it re-timed?
by the way it is a double bearing made by NSK, since the bearing is exposed i popped the seal off to see what it looks like inside, i found no grease but it had oil that seeped out. The bearing feels solid and the balls look shiny and not pitted, the oil that was in it was not dirty (i run amsiol 10-40 high zinc) if i leave the seal off to allow the oil to lubricate it freely will it be ok for service? or will it remain a high risk

[seningen]

Originally Posted by poorsche1

01 boxster S 42K miles.
I was replacing the rms last week and had mentioned to a buddy that i wanted to check the ims bearing to see if it was going bad when he, thinking that he was lending a hand removed the flange on the ims bearing before i had locked it in tdc and lossened the tensioners now the bearing is wedged around 2 oclock in the hole . called jack raby on friday and he said to get it retimed. so i have been looking for a porsche guru with the proper tools to come to my house where the car is jacked up and re-time the cams.----So far, Hard to find . --- Today another friend of mine with porsche knowledge but no tools, was over looking at the project and mentioned that he did not think it would need re-timing. so i am posting a picture of what the bearing looks like now with the flange off and still in tension.
I was thinking if i can make a tool out of nylon material in my shop to fit in the inside of the bearing, the outside would be slightly off-center then rotate the tool untill the bearing is centered, then lock the tdc and loosen the tensioners.
now the question is (hopefully jack reads this and can respond) will that put the cams back to where they were before the flange was removed or am i still screwed? and need it re-timed?
by the way it is a double bearing made by NSK, since the bearing is exposed i popped the seal off to see what it looks like inside, i found no grease but it had oil that seeped out. The bearing feels solid and the balls look shiny and not pitted, the oil that was in it was not dirty (i run amsiol 10-40 high zinc) if i leave the seal off to allow the oil to lubricate it freely will it be ok for service? or will it remain a high risk

If you were in Austin -- I'd be able to help you :-(

all this info below is from Jake and Charles.
I believe that oil in there takes out the grease - and the steel balls
do not get enough lubrication from the oil and can't take the heat.
the IMSRs use ceramic ball bearings, tougher and more heat tolerant.

Not sure if my mechanic would do a Houston house call.
We've got the tools to retime as well as replace the IMS with
Jake/Charles IMSR.

If you are interested, I can check with him and see if 1) it is possible
2) what it would cost.
Possibly cheaper to have it flat bedded to us.
(I paid <$200 to haul a car from Corpus to Austin 2 weeks ago)

email me mike at lonestarrpm dot com.

thx,

Mike

[Jake Raby]

If the IMS flange was pulled with the tensioners in place, and/or without the crank locked at TDC #1 cylinder the engine must be re-timed.

You must take this seriously as their is virtually zero margin for error.

Even if the engine isn't far enough out of time to experience a piston/valve collision it has definitely seen camshaft timing deviations between the 1-3 and 4-6 banks of cams which will lead to low fuel mileage, poor performance and general lousiness.

This procedure must be done in a progressive manner, the first thing that is accomplished is crank locking for TDC #1 and the second is tensioner removal. If not done in this manner expect issues.

Someone did not heed my warnings last month and ended up with 3 busted pistons.

The IMSR procedure is not difficult, but it must be done in a prescribed manner, which just happens to be the simplest manner as well.

If you found no grease inside the bearing when the seal was removed, then the bearing has worn to stage II and the seal has been compromised, allowing engine oil to wash the grease from it. This would be fine if the seal hadn't been impeding the proper amount of engine oil from finding its way to the balls. To properly inspect the bearing it must be removed and taken apart, worn races can't be seen with the bearing intact. Worn races lead to spalling of the balls which leads to failure.

[Roxy]

2000-2004 (2003) IMS Failure 27000km. 2.7

[eclou]

Originally Posted by poorsche1

01 boxster S 42K miles.
I was replacing the rms last week and had mentioned to a buddy that i wanted to check the ims bearing to see if it was going bad when he, thinking that he was lending a hand removed the flange on the ims bearing before i had locked it in tdc and lossened the tensioners now the bearing is wedged around 2 oclock in the hole . called jack raby on friday and he said to get it retimed. so i have been looking for a porsche guru with the proper tools to come to my house where the car is jacked up and re-time the cams.----So far, Hard to find . --- Today another friend of mine with porsche knowledge but no tools, was over looking at the project and mentioned that he did not think it would need re-timing. so i am posting a picture of what the bearing looks like now with the flange off and still in tension.
I was thinking if i can make a tool out of nylon material in my shop to fit in the inside of the bearing, the outside would be slightly off-center then rotate the tool untill the bearing is centered, then lock the tdc and loosen the tensioners.
now the question is (hopefully jack reads this and can respond) will that put the cams back to where they were before the flange was removed or am i still screwed? and need it re-timed?
by the way it is a double bearing made by NSK, since the bearing is exposed i popped the seal off to see what it looks like inside, i found no grease but it had oil that seeped out. The bearing feels solid and the balls look shiny and not pitted, the oil that was in it was not dirty (i run amsiol 10-40 high zinc) if i leave the seal off to allow the oil to lubricate it freely will it be ok for service? or will it remain a high risk

Call Viking Motorsports 832-250-5995 he can fix this for you. Viking is going to be doing a few of the IMS upgrade kits soon

[markhammo]

I have experienced an IMS failure at only 15,159 miles on my '04 Boxter S special edition 550 Spyder. Out of Warranty, Porsche are holding out with an offer of meeting some of the cost of replacement, but I think it is less than others have been offered, anyone willing to give me details of settlements in similar cases?

[MikenOH]

http://www.ppbb.com/phorum/list.php?19--Pete's Boxster board.

There are several guys on the board with the same model that have had an IMS failure. Send them a PM to discuss.

Since you are in the UK, I suspect you'll be treated differently by Porsche than if you were in the US; it seems like the UK owners get less help with these issues for some unknown reason.

[diuxuryindita]

Hello. And Bye.

[pantherbiker]

2003 Boxster base tiptronic 47k miles..no problems yet..

[fooksm]

2001 Boxster S with IMS failure at 102000Kms.... The only major components which could be re-used were the cylinder heads, the rest was junk.

The new engine was built using the ceramic bearings so she should be ok for quite a while now.

[Jake Raby]

Finally, I'd like to take the time to express my appreciation for all the work Jake and Charles have done to investigate the causes and provide solutions to the IMS problem. Having driven a '99' model and now an 06 over the course of the past 11 years, it's reassuring to know that there is an organization out there working to resolve potential problems with these cars with cost-effective products

What an awesome way to start the week! Too often what we do is perceived incorrectly and people believe that our motivation is money. That couldn't be further from the truth as the sense of pride that we get from each challenge that we accept and problem that we overcome is better than any dollar that is generated.

[BoxsterSteve]

I bought a 47,000 mile 2000 Boxster S at the end of May; many thanks to Jake at Flat 6 for his responses to my emails on my concerns with this IMS issue.

When I bought the car, I had planned on having the IMSR procedure done ASAP.

My indie finally got into the car this past Thursday, and upon teardown, found a bearing with lots of looseness; oozing oil and metal flakes. Ouch.

The first thing he told me was he wouldn't have started the car if he knew the bearing was that bad, he would have pushed it into the shop. He ordered a replacement bearing from LN, and I will hopefully have my ride back before the end of the week.

By the looks of it, I'm a lucky Boxster owner. A bad IMS bearing, but caught before the dreaded BOOM.

Thanks folks,
Ciao