Anyone have a Raby rebuild yet? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

dmcutter · 08-27-2008, 04:36 PM

I emailed Jake for info and he called me at lunch. Just like a real person! Here is the jist of the conversation. A 3.6 build from my 3.2 would be comparable in cost to a 3.6 transplant, but based on much info below it would be a more robust, longer lasting engine than a stock 3.6. Based on his software modeling, he would be shooting for 350 hp at the flywheel, and more torque than hp. The build would include the Nikkies cylinders, new pistons, billet con rods, and IMS upgrade.

So better power than a stock 3.6, and theoretically better longevity. Sounds like a touch more hp than the turbo, and significantly more torque, but at a significantly higher price ($6-$7K more) but normally aspirated, so not the "ticking time bomb" so many feel a boosted stock engine to be. For the money, it sounds like the 3.6 build is the best way to drastically increase power without pushing the engine to the ragged edge. I also like the idea of the IMS upgrade. Food for thought.

RandallNeighbour · 08-27-2008, 06:26 PM

This is a wonderful thread. I will inevitably be a Raby customer.

Now what can I sell on eBay to get some cash together?

kabel · 08-27-2008, 07:42 PM

Charles, thanks for joining us too. Very excited about your progress.

Jake Raby · 08-28-2008, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcutter

I emailed Jake for info and he called me at lunch. Just like a real person! Here is the jist of the conversation. A 3.6 build from my 3.2 would be comparable in cost to a 3.6 transplant, but based on much info below it would be a more robust, longer lasting engine than a stock 3.6. Based on his software modeling, he would be shooting for 350 hp at the flywheel, and more torque than hp. The build would include the Nikkies cylinders, new pistons, billet con rods, and IMS upgrade.

So better power than a stock 3.6, and theoretically better longevity. Sounds like a touch more hp than the turbo, and significantly more torque, but at a significantly higher price ($6-$7K more) but normally aspirated, so not the "ticking time bomb" so many feel a boosted stock engine to be. For the money, it sounds like the 3.6 build is the best way to drastically increase power without pushing the engine to the ragged edge. I also like the idea of the IMS upgrade. Food for thought.

It was really nice talking to you about power potential and reliability upgrades...

Time will tell exactly what we can do with the 3.2>>3.6 internal work for sure.. It seems that this upgrade is highly sought after and is gaining much more attention than we initially had expected.

We are realigning the testing schedule to favor this conversion and the 2.9 built from the 2.5/2.7 engines more than anything else.... We expect to make some very big power from these two combinations, compared to their base engines.

blue2000s · 08-28-2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcutter

I emailed Jake for info and he called me at lunch. Just like a real person! Here is the jist of the conversation. A 3.6 build from my 3.2 would be comparable in cost to a 3.6 transplant, but based on much info below it would be a more robust, longer lasting engine than a stock 3.6. Based on his software modeling, he would be shooting for 350 hp at the flywheel, and more torque than hp. The build would include the Nikkies cylinders, new pistons, billet con rods, and IMS upgrade.

So better power than a stock 3.6, and theoretically better longevity. Sounds like a touch more hp than the turbo, and significantly more torque, but at a significantly higher price ($6-$7K more) but normally aspirated, so not the "ticking time bomb" so many feel a boosted stock engine to be. For the money, it sounds like the 3.6 build is the best way to drastically increase power without pushing the engine to the ragged edge. I also like the idea of the IMS upgrade. Food for thought.

Cost comparable to transplanting a stock 3.6 into what model year of car? Depending on the DME compatibility (model year of car and engine), there can be a significant difference in engine transplant costs.

Again, what is done to improve the IMS?

silver arrow · 08-28-2008, 07:59 AM

How is engine management going to be handled? What software is going to be used to reflash and will it be able to be custom tuned or is it going to be an off the shelf tune for each engine combo?

dmcutter · 08-28-2008, 08:20 AM

My car is an '04 S. He was talking about the capabilites of the Motronic so I guess engine management will be handled by remapping the exisitng system. Hey, I'm just a civil engineer-all the things I deal with are supposed to be standing still. I have to assume that the guys doing the development work are capable of handling the details.

blue2000s · 08-28-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcutter

My car is an '04 S. He was talking about the capabilites of the Motronic so I guess engine management will be handled by remapping the exisitng system. Hey, I'm just a civil engineer-all the things I deal with are supposed to be standing still. I have to assume that the guys doing the development work are capable of handling the details.

Motronic is a completely independent engine management computer, eliminating the stock DME.

dmcutter · 08-28-2008, 08:59 AM

Sorry, my bad. I'm obviously not educated on all the details of an engine swap or rebuild. I won't even pretend to be on the same level as most of the contributors to this thread. That's why I posed the question about NOS in the other thread-I wanted to know why it could or couldn't be done.

My perspective is that the car is beautiful in what I feel to be a classic, timeless way, and it is an awesome handler. The engine appears to be the weak link. If I can find a way to make the engine more powerful and longer lasting, it would be worthwhile to do it to ensure years and years of driving pleasure.

Lil bastard · 08-28-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

Motronic is a completely independent engine management computer, eliminating the stock DME.

Motronic is Bosche's engine management software brand. It is used in all Boxster DME. Depending upon model and year, you either have Motronic 5.2, Motronic 7.2 or Motronic 7.8. The file sizes for ver. 5.2 is 16k while ver. 7X file sizes are 512k, allowing for greater programming and greater dynamic response.

blue2000s · 08-28-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Motronic is Bosche's engine management software brand. It is used in all Boxster DME. Depending upon model and year, you either have Motronic 5.2, Motronic 7.2 or Motronic 7.8. The file sizes for ver. 5.2 is 16k while ver. 7X file sizes are 512k, allowing for greater programming and greater dynamic response.

Brain fart, I was thinking Motec.

Jake Raby · 08-29-2008, 07:55 PM

The 2.5 can only be made into a 2.9 by using the crank and carrier from a 2.7 core @ 78mm stroke. The 2.5 block is maxxed out (safely) at 89mm bore, to create the 2.7 with the 2.5 crank, or the 2.9 with the 2.7 crank.

The 2.9 is rated at 260HP and thats attained without high CR or putting the engine "on edge".

We may have the ability to get more HP as time goes on from the 2.9 combo, especially with camshaft manipulation. The limiting factor will be the hydro lifters, but our solid lift mods (that require periodic valve adjustments) can extend RPM ranges and use more aggressive cam profiles for more power.

As always, time will tell....

Jake Raby · 08-29-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

My 2.7 is approaching 80k miles and has been rock solid reliable, but I do know that there will come a day when it's time to address an engine replacement.

That 2.7 can be made into a 2.9 and make 30-40% more power! It drops right back in without hassles.

We haven't applied these enhancements to the tiptronic vehicles yet, but those trannys and components are fairly substantial, I don't know if they would take a 3.6 retrofit, but we'll have to try and see.

The ECU requirements are still being investigated as the 3.2>>3.6 is just now being taken seriously. We'll know lots more by the end of the year!

silver arrow · 08-29-2008, 03:30 PM

Jake, what ECU reflash solution are you going to use? Are you including the reprogrammed ECU and having the old one sent back as a core?

Jake Raby · 08-29-2008, 06:35 PM

There are several methods of ECU manipulation and the method we choose will be based upon what we have done to the engine and what engine we are working with.

Lots of the items we are working on are well within the realm of "learning" by the very smart Motronic ECU, this is mostly true with the early engines.

We'll prefer to receive an ECU from the client's car and then use it for engine tuning with the replacement unit. Its a plus to keep the stock ECU with the car whenever possible.

Today I began measures to re-outfit our facility with an area and crew to complete full service engine installs/ swaps into the Boxster and 996. We have typically been an engine design/ assembly and research/ testing facility only, but its apparent that it'll be a necessity to offer full services to those who want innovative flat six power :-)
(some are willing to ship engines cross country for us to do the installation)

grantsfo · 08-29-2008, 06:58 PM

I'm considering a 3.4 conversion in the next 6 to 8 months. What are options with 2.5 block. I want something that will be capable of 300 reliable HP. I'd also like something that will give me better low end torque range. I dont know if a 2.5 bored out to 2.9 would be solution?