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Twin Turbo on 2.5
Hello,
Finally a few pictures from my Twin Turbo install. The Supercharger removal and twin turbo install was handled by TurboWerx shop in Austin. I also dynoed the car this weekend, as of now (it still needs another test and tune day) it is producing 50 - 60 horsepower more than stock all across the rpm. We think we can get another 20-30hp out of it. In comparison to the sc the turbos are producing 25 to 30 hp over the sc early in the rpms, I think that is because the turbos spool up so much faster than the supercharger did. As of now I am getting full boost at 2800 rpm and carry the full boost all the way to red line. Because of the heat wrap on the wires the dyno shop was unable to get a RPM read so I only have horsepower numbers. The next set of dynoes will have rpm numbers so next time I will have tourqe numbers. The Dyno Tech who has dynoed the car 4 other times said the tourqe was noticeably stronger. I posted a video of the dyno pull from this weekend. The link is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOunWKqkh80 Please ask any questions, Gary |
Freaken Awesome Gary! How much did the kit and the labor set you back?
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Gary, please write as much as you can about the acceleration and overall feel between the TT and the SC kit you had on the car previously.
I know you got a sweet deal on this TT kit, but how much would Turbowerx charge me if I gave them my car and had them do the install? (It is a turbowerx unit, right?) I am still torn between which option to go with: SC, TT, or 3.4 swap. If money were no object, I'd go for the 3.4 and a six speed tranny and have that turbocharged. Now that's a quick boxster, huh? |
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That would be a quick Boxster, in my no money an object I would go with a 3.4 bored out and rebuilt for as much power I could get. But then again a 3.4 tt sounds real good...hmm...I dont need that 401k do I??? |
Gary, you have one sick boxster. 3.4 boxsters are pretty rare but a tt boxster is something you don't even hear of but once in awhile.
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That's awesome Gary!! I am very curious about the turbowerx shop because I'm interested in their 3.2 kit. They haven't released all the details yet. What are your impressions of the shop? Can you tell us a little bit more about the outfit? Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, turbo's are a little tricky to lauch as you can't get any boost until it starts "working". The motor has to be under load for the turbos to spool. I love a little turbo whine now an then :cheers: |
What kind of warrenty do they give on the parts? Do they cover the cost of the engine if it blows up? Is there any internal modification like Gemballa does?
James |
Hey Gary, what SC kit did you have before switching the the TT setup? I'm curious because you said it was very noisy.
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I think there is a 90 day on the kit, and i dont think any tuner besides Gemballa or Ruf cover the engine. and the are no internal modifications. From my understanding because the turbos are set to only produce 6psi and they are an intercooled psi the engine is safe. If someone tried running 15 or 20 psi I think the engine would turn into a bomb. |
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I had a Imagine Kit, on my you tube page there is a dyno with the sc on and a few driving videos. www.youtube.com/gwhand I did not notice how noisy it was until it was off.b My old sc is for sale by JAAY he posted an ad here and on ebay. |
The other twin turbo 2.5
Hi Gary,
Nice posting. Unfortunately I haven't succeeded in dynoing mine yet. I do share your opinion on the TT performance. Mine also has PS2's and I don't have the heart yet to drop the clutch etc. Besides, the tires grip like hell. Nice thing is that the TT's do break the tires loose! I should post something on youtube . Do you have the cone type airfilter? I'm using a K&N replacement filter on mine. I also plan to install the hose from my AOS to intake. This, regarding a little bit of leakage of oil. Marc from Turbowerx recommended me this. |
Thanks for the reply Gary, so for just about the same price as the SC, you could get a turbo setup that produces more power with less noise. Sounds like the turbo route is the way to go.
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Do you have the cone type airfilter?
I am using the EVO intake with cone air filter. Get that dyno done I want to see what kind of power you are getting out of it. |
i would say between the two the tt is the way to go.
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Thanks for replying, and thanks for sharing your first hand experience with the two kits. I have bookmarked their site so when I'm ready look into FI for my box. :)
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[QUOTE=boxsterz]That's awesome Gary!! I am very curious about the turbowerx shop because I'm interested in their 3.2 kit. They haven't released all the details yet. What are your impressions of the shop? Can you tell us a little bit more about the outfit? Thanks for sharing.
When I went to Austin to drop off the car I drove all night met him at Colvins Automotive (as seen on Overhaulin) we dynoed the car, talked a little and he took me to the airport. At pick up he met me at the airport with the car, we went over a few things and then I drove home. So i never saw his shop. Yeah, turbo's are a little tricky to lauch as you can't get any boost until it starts "working". The motor has to be under load for the turbos to spool. I love a little turbo whine now an then :cheers: I love the sound of the blow off valves. |
Gary,
Just wondering, how is it that the Turbo provides more power than the Supercharger ? Imagine Auto's website claims approx. 80 additional hp : http://www.imagineauto.com/boxster%20sc.htm While TurboWerks claims an additional 65 hp : http://www.turbowerx.com/Products/BoxsterTurbo/BoxsterTurbo.html Thanks ! Nick |
Properly engineered turbo systems have lower parasitic losses than supercharger systems. A turbocharger uses some of the energy in the exhaust gases that would normally be thrown away to spin the charger, while a supercharger taps directly into crankshaft power for the energy to compress the intake charge. Usually this translates directly to more HP at the wheels for turbo systems.
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The Imagine site has numbers problems.
First, 80hp gain over 150hp base is not 38%, it's 53%. Second, if they are using about 5 psi, there is no way they can approach even 38%. The theoretical max in ideal conditions is 6.8% increase per 1 psi; 5 psi would therefore be a 34% increase, max, assuming all other factors perform at their theoretical performance limits. Operating over 5psi is an iffy proposition without an intercooler, so they can't be getting 38%, let alone 53%. Lastly, it's not all about peak power; it's where in the rpm range the power happens. If you were to overlay the two dyno curves of the Imagine blower and the twin turbo, I bet the turbo curve is a lot higher than the blower curve at lower rpms. Even if the blower were to provide more peak power, it's going to do it at much higher rpms; the turbo car would be far in front of the blown car by that point. A supercharger can't build boost until the revs are up, unlike a propertly tuned turbo setup. What you want is performance at lower rpms, unless you are at the track and never let things get below 5000... Quote:
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The supercharger kit uses 4psi and the turbo kit uses 6psi and a intercooler.
Let me add some real world results to this conversation... http://turbowerx.com/external_pictures/TWX_iA_overlay.jpg My base line with a OEM 2.5 plus EVO intake desnorkeled SC and finally the turbo overlay. |
Wow...that pretty much tells the story.
The turbo system equals the supercharger's peak torque, as early as 3000 rpm! The blower doesn't get to its torque peak until 6000 rpm... Not to mention the turbo generates 29% more torque at its peak. There is no comparison. And as for the Imagine website claims... |
I contacted these guys last week and I plan on going by to drive one of the development cars. The price for the Boxster S turbo kit is resonable.
How worried should I be about the motor blowing up? I am really thinking hard that I will do this. They claim reliablity is the same as stock. |
"Let me add some real world results to this conversation...
http://turbowerx.com/external_pictu..._iA_overlay.jpg My base line with a OEM 2.5 plus EVO intake desnorkeled" Wow, thats great, just what I like to see, a comparative dyno run, it really does tell the story. Too bad the compression on the 2.7L makes a turbo problematic. Ed :cheers: |
what is the compression difference between the 2.5 and 2.7??
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I was looking over the turbowerx site and it looks interesting. Maybe some of you guys can answer a few questions. I've never considered a turbo before because of the price ( I think the TTP one is over $15k). It says the S system is going to be available soon! I was looking over the list and it mentioned ECU reprogram. Do you send them your ECU? No CEL issues either? Anybody know what they charge to install this turbo kit?
Custom Garrett turbo technology • High-capacity intercooler with custom air-ducting/panels • Proprietary ECU re-programming • All-stainless turbo piping • Full 3” intake piping • Full 2.5” stainless boost piping • Full 2.5” stainless down-piping • Zero-resonance stainless exhaust • Twin stainless tips • Turbo oil pump/scavenging system • Compatibility with most aftermarket headers • Emissions compliant/no CELs • All necessary parts, screws, bolts, brackets, etc. • Full color Installation Manual • One weekend installation • Limited warranty Looking over this picture I'm guessing you have to chop/weld your headers? What brand of headers are these pictured? |
When I did mine I took the car to Turbowerx and he did all of the install there.
I don't remember what his charge was for the install, I do know it was very reasonable. If you do the work yourself I assume you unhook your ecu ship it to him and he programs it and ships it back to you with the new program. The headers are not cut and welded there are pictures on his site of his headers. |
I see. Thanks Gary. So, you can buy their headers or chop your own? It says it's compatable with most headers. Have you had any CEL issues or anything with this system? It says they supply the muffler. How does it sound?
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I called them and they are moving the shop to another location in austin. They quoted me a complete intall into my 6 speed 02 S at 7000$.
I plan on doing it ASAP. When they get the new shop up and running I am going to drop off the car, estimate is around December. James |
Oh I see.....
Mine is a 2.5 and yours is a 3.2 I think the muffler is required for the S whereas its not for the 2.5 I am not sure why it was designed that way. And by reading the site I believe the S keeps OEM headers or you can use his. And as you can see from the pictures the 2.5 uses Turbowerx headers with the turbos built in. I really dont know on these 2 issues I am assuming based on the facts I know. If you email Marc he will answer any question you may have. Please post the answers I'm a little curious. |
jhandy,
$7000 for the kit including the install ? I thought the kit alone cost $7k ??? Nick |
It would not surprise me if he was doing everything for 7k.
I would recommend him doing the install. With Turbowerx doing the install it allows him to test and tune everything on his dyno. |
My understanding it is 7000 for everything. I may get by for less because i have bypass pipes and a high performance muffler anyway.
They are out of touch at the moment, so i can not confirm or deny. James |
Does anyone make a turbo or supercharger for the 2.7ltr. engine base Boxster?
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jhandy,
Please let me know. $6500 for the supercharger not including install or $7000 for the turbo including install - I wonder how far Austin is from Chicago :D Nick |
Imagine Auto will do a SC for the 2.7 but they need the car a week to tune it.
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not to high jack the thread or to discourage the turbos. which are freaking awsome, I am selling my imagine auto supercharger kit for best offer over 2500 :)
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@ Gary or Gerardo, how noticable is the turbo lag? Any problems or issues at all?
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I always felt the car was a little low in power in the lower RPMs, so I never drove it hard below 3000rpm. Noe the tirbos are on full boost at 3000 rpms and the power and tourqe are right on.
In gear revving around 3000 if I floor it the turbos build boost almost instant. I can watch the gauge go from negative to full boost in an instant. So to answer your question directly there is no noticeable lag. |
sorry to barge into the tread, but i thought you might be interested
Check my ebay i have many porsche parts and items
COMPLETE SUPERCHARGER KIT with Fuel Injector computer <<< and tuning software. Yes this is a complete kit plug and play. Don't know why other people sell their Supercharger kit without computer and becomes a nightmare for the buyer, but no hassle here all ready to go No reserve goes to the highest bidder or buy it now ________________________________________ also for sell a SAFE wet shot nitrous kit for the boxster set up with supercharger. Check it out |
That kit doesnt work on 3.2 or 2.7 boxsters. You need to do your homework on your kit before you sell it!
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