Decided to purchase an exhaust

[yellowboxster01]

After wanting one since the second week of ownership, I decided I'm going to buy an aftermarket exhaust. I've been reading a lot of threads about the different setups. I'll probably go ahead and buy the Fabspeed bypass pipes while I'm at it. Now to my concerns.

I've read about a lot of different setups busting the mount, whether it be the weld breaks off the muffler or the bracket itself bending. I'm reluctant to buy one of those $500 mufflers on ebay for that very reason. Here are a few I've been considering...

Borla- seems to have the strongest mounting and I really like the look and sound. I know a guy who is sponsored by Borla and can get me one for $690 shipped brand new.
GHL but, again it seems the mounting is weak.
Fabspeed
Stebro

Can anyone comment on the mounting on any of these exhaust setups? Is it isolated incidents and I just seem to stumble on them? Anyone one one of these and have a video?

Any other suggestions on another exhaust?

[blinkwatt]

Originally Posted by yellowboxster01

Can anyone comment on the mounting on any of these exhaust setups? Is it isolated incidents and I just seem to stumble on them? Anyone one one of these and have a video?

I can comment on the ebay/delubozparts/Top Speed exhaust. I was a little concerned with the mounting on the exhaust at first as well. Then exhaust came and it weighed 1/2 as much as the OEM one. I was able to get it to hang by just the mounting bracket w/o and issue. Now it's also connected to the 'u' pipes so there isn't much to worry about.

Don't worry too much,if you buy it from Che he offers a three year warranty in case the mounting brackets break.

[easyc]

One of my GHL mounts to the vibration bar broke, but that was because it was installed under stress... Ive also installed one of the GHL look a likes from maxspeed that mounts identically like CHE's and there is no mounting problems AS long as its installed without stress... the same goes for all of them. Here is a video of my GHL on my 986S... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkhaXGBT5LE

[zackwatt]

I think I'm gonna get the Headers and Exhaust from Maxspeed Motorsports. Its only a $1049.00 bucks for both. Can't beat that deal! You might want to look into that.

[blinkwatt]

Originally Posted by zackwatt

I think I'm gonna get the Headers and Exhaust from Maxspeed Motorsports. Its only a $1049.00 bucks for both. Can't beat that deal! You might want to look into that.

Can't beat that deal!..........they admit that they have CEL problems with their header design on the e-gas engines.

Their solution....clearing the CEL. What the hell type of fix is that?

[zackwatt]

Hold on there buddy....

From what I understand, The CEL comes on because the OEM setup has two O2 sensors at the end of the headers, one before the cat and one after. The Maxspeed headers only have a bung for one 02 sensor each. So, now you have one O2 sensor on each side that is "inoperative" or not receiving any reading and that will throw a CEL.

According to Maxspeed the permanent fix is:

"....you will need to relocate the 2nd O2 sensor right after the 2nd set of cats that also involves extending the wiring on the O2 sensors. This is the permanent solution. We can help you with this solution just ask we have the O2 weld sensor bungs to relocate."

This sounds like a good fix to me

[blinkwatt]

Originally Posted by zackwatt

Hold on there buddy....

From what I understand, The CEL comes on because the OEM setup has two O2 sensors at the end of the headers, one before the cat and one after. The Maxspeed headers only have a bung for one 02 sensor each. So, now you have one O2 sensor on each side that is "inoperative" or not receiving any reading and that will throw a CEL.

According to Maxspeed the permanent fix is:

"....you will need to relocate the 2nd O2 sensor right after the 2nd set of cats that also involves extending the wiring on the O2 sensors. This is the permanent solution. We can help you with this solution just ask we have the O2 weld sensor bungs to relocate."

This sounds like a good fix to me

From Maxspeed's auction;

Q- You say "it will fit all Boxsters regardless of O2 Sensor configuration" how could that be?

A- For 2.5L Boxster you will leave the O2 plug screws in place, simply tighten them and install the headers, the 2.5L headers don't have O2 sensors on the headers.

For 2.7L & 3.2L the factory O2 sensors will fit into the headers , thats 2 x O2 Sensors on each headers.

Q- On the 2.7L & 3.2L will these headers trigger C.E.L (Check Engine Light)?

A- As mentionned above we have tested these headerson a 2002 2.7L Boxster and we had the C.E.L light came on 3 times always with the same code that has occured on a 3000 Mile testing , this is caused by the deletion of the primary cats, in return they are noticeable power gains and improved sound. So yes on the 2.7L and 3.2L the C.E.L will possibly come on.

Q-What can be done to resolve the C.E.L ?

A- Two things can be done, either you purchase a Scanner to erase the light when it comes on. Thats what I do I purchased a nice scanner online and its a great tool to have. Or you will need to relocate the 2nd O2 sensor right after the 2nd set of cats that also involves extending the wiring on the O2 sensors. This is the permanent solution. We can help you with this solution just ask we have the O2 weld sensor bungs to relocate.

Why would you need to relocate the 2nd set of o2 sensors? The o2 sensor positioning isn't something to be messed with on these cars.

Get some headers by Fabspeed,Gembella,evo or imagineauto. None of which i heard trigger a CEL on the e-gas.

Maybe Che could chime in on the o2 configuration considering his e-gas headers are out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-Boxster-986-2-7L-3-2L-Exhaust-Header-Headers_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33630QQihZ020QQ itemZ300147056064QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[easyc]

Hiding the CEL light by just scanning it off is a tough task... many and most DOT testing facilities will fail you for a lit CEL. The 986S's 3.2 has 4 sensors, and there are headers out there that can be installed without the CEL...

[zackwatt]

Ok.....

First off to correct myself, Maxspeed does have enough mounts for all four (4) O2 sensors on the headers. I misunderstood that. The problem is obvious, there is no cat to in between the two O2 sensors on each header. Tada, CEL!

With that Q&A you gave me from Maxspeed's website they admit that the CEL came on three times in a 3000 mile period. From what anyone can presume it is the above setup that they are running. There is no reason the CEL should not have come on, you have deleted the cats and the exhaust gas is different.

Now, I agree with your statement "The o2 sensor positioning isn't something to be messed with on these cars." but if the car does not know the difference then there is no harm in it. Although, Thats the Big Question here! Isn't it?

I looked at Che's headers and they seem very similar. I wish he, or someone very knowledgeable on the subject would chime in. I may have too much confidence in Maxspeed, but I think they would know their own product. I think if I do what they say, I won't have any problems. *crosses fingers*

[RandallNeighbour]

I just saw a set of Turbowerx headers and they're very nice looking. You should check into those as well.

I have Che's headers on a non-egas 2.5 and love them. The HP gain is easily felt by the butt dyno.

[Cloudsurfer]

I currently have stock headers and FabSpeed's system on my S. It sounds great and I have a feeling it does flow better than stock. However, it does resonate between 2 and 3k which drives me nuts.

I have been considering TurboWerx's headers as they are beautifully made, B&B makes a nice set as well. If you want catted headers the only option are FabSpeed but they are $$$.

The issue with the CEL confusion and the 4 O2 bungs is this: the OBDII section of the DME expects to see different O2 levels pre and post cat to ensure catalytic efficiency, so having 4 O2 bungs in a non catted header is sure to get you a CEL. What you can do, is keep the factory secondary cats, or get high flow catted midpipes, and install a bung AFTER those cats and extend the wiring for the post O2 sensors. There will be a slight difference in resistance due to the added wiring but it SHOULD be ok.

I believe there are also some software reflashes that remove the catalytic efficiency monitoring, but I am not sure.

I would like to get the FabSpeed headers but I am simply not paying $2500 for them. My current plan is to get either the B&B or TurboWerx headers, and have my local custom shop remove the resonators from my FabSpeed midpipes and weld in high flow cats, and install my secondary O2s after those with extended wiring.

I'll keep you all posted if/ when I get around to this.

Patrick

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

I just saw a set of Turbowerx headers and they're very nice looking. You should check into those as well.

I have Che's headers on a non-egas 2.5 and love them. The HP gain is easily felt by the butt dyno.

hows the quality? any cels, and how was installation

[edevlin]

"The issue with the CEL confusion and the 4 O2 bungs is this: the OBDII section of the DME expects to see different O2 levels pre and post cat to ensure catalytic efficiency, so having 4 O2 bungs in a non catted header is sure to get you a CEL. What you can do, is keep the factory secondary cats, or get high flow catted midpipes, and install a bung AFTER those cats and extend the wiring for the post O2 sensors. There will be a slight difference in resistance due to the added wiring but it SHOULD be ok. "

I know different folks have had good luck with extending the wires to the oxygen sensors and locating them after the downstream cats without getting CEL-issues. But in my experience this can still give CEL's. I have spent the last 6 months on and off messing around with trying to get rid of the CEL. Car is running great but when I added the German TTP headers and 100-cell cats, I started getting the CEL.

In an attempt to resolve the issue, we tried replacing cats, moving sensor bungs, moving sensors into and out of the exhaust stream, replacing sensors, we even stuck in an new "used" ECU, it has been quite fussy.

"I believe there are also some software reflashes that remove the catalytic efficiency monitoring, but I am not sure. "

As I understand it, shops that do that mod can get in big trouble, at least that is what the folks that wrote the software for the chip in my car said.

In my car the CEL would come on after 70 miles or so of driving. To try to get at the cause of the problem, I left my car at the shop and the fellow that wrote the software for my chip would drive the car with the Porsche tester plugged in and wait for the CEL to trigger and then note all the values.

After several hundred miles of driving in this fashion, the "final" fix involved him reprogramming the ECU to have a modestly elevated threshold for the oxygen sensor level that triggers the CEL (as opposed to removing the cat efficiency monitoring).

As part of his trouble-shooting the problem, he ended up really tweeking and dialing in the chip for my car, the butt-dyno result so far is that the car runs and sounds better than ever, I cannt wait to get on a dyno to see what this latest ECU tune did.

So, this is one guys experience that messing around with the stock cat efficiency or extending oxygen sensor wires can result in CEL issues. This has been an expensive education.... have fun,


Ed

[Cloudsurfer]

Ed-

What have you been using for ECU modification? Very interested to hear more on this!

Patrick

edevlin,


This is probably way out there, but maybe it is possible that extending the length of the O2 sensor goofed up the latency of the readings and threw the CEL. What would rule this out is extending the length of all sensors by the same amount. That way they're all timed consistently. On the short ones, just tuck the extra wire in neat coil...

[edevlin]

"What have you been using for ECU modification? Very interested to hear more on this!"

The floks at Autothority Pitstop had written an ECU program for the 2.7 liter 217hp boxster. The program was customized for for a car that had a high-flow intake, headers and high flow cats. I had a chance to drive a 2000 2.7 that the mods and ECU tune and it was very fast, it seemed more responsive than 3.2 Boxsters I had driven.

So I decided to take the plunge and got the intake and exhaust mods along with the ECU tune. But whereas the other 2000 2.7 Boxsters with the tune never had a CEL triggered with the mods, mine did.

It may have been the cat efficiency on my 100-cell cats, the wiring when we extended the oxygen sensors, or even the location of the sensors along the exhaust stream, we are not sure. The folks at Autothority stood behind their work and put in a lot of time and parts to make it right.

In the process of getting my CEL to stay off, they really dialed in the chip tune for the stock 2000 217 hp boxster. As a result, my car is running better than ever. If all goes as planned, next monday I will get on the dyno I have used three times before to check on the state of the chip and exhaust mods to see what it says.

Ed

[admlmm]

Sorry if this does not exactly fit this thread but here is my recent experience with headers. I have a stock 2002 S (in Australia) and I replaced the OEM headers. These do not have the inbuilt 1st set of CAT's like the US ones seem to have judging by the other threads on the subject. The OEM headers have 34mm external diameter pipes with 40mm (approx) internal diameter (ID) collectors. I installed a set of aftermarket T304 headers (Porsche Tuning) that look like those attached . They have 45mm ID pipes with 50mm ID collectors. I chose these because they had 45mm ID pipes whereas it looked like the Maxspeed ones, whilst looking the same, had only 38mm pipes. Their collectors were the same 50mm as the others. The Porsche guy commented to me that the after market headers looked very well made but showed me that the Gambella ones were better due to smoother internals from the welds. He commented he too would not have spent the extra money on the Gembella's as mine seemed pretty good. You can see in the OEM shot how poorly the OEM pipes merge into the collectors compared to the aftermarket ones. I videoed both before and after and ran the recording through a sound measurement program my son found on the net. Sorry the forum tool will not accept the videos. We measured the camera distance to the exhaust pipes to keep the same. We tried to keep the revs the same but this is difficult to achieve for a couple of hacks messing around in the garage. The results are by no means scientific but indicated to me that the car is actually slightly quieter now than with the original headers. This is supported by my "impression" of driving it. In fact it is now so quiet I cannot believe it is the same car. The car appears to spin out through the revs a lot quicker and seems to have more punch. I have a fairly serious corkscrew ramp at the office and used to just let it idle down with the engine braking keeping my speed in check. I now have to dab the brakes as it seems like a lot of back pressure from the engine has been relieved. I did want a more sporty sound and if I got more power that would be a bonus. I am pretty sure I achieved the latter but not the former. I guess I will have to fit a cat back exhaust now to get that sound. I was frightened off installing the headers myself by all the talk of broken studs and got the local Porsche shop to do it. As luck would have it no broken studs and probably about an hour for the total job. The car only has 44 thousand kms (27 thousand mls) and has never seen serious rain or cold weather so maybe that is why the studs were not frozen. No CEL's which is as I expected as I have not messed with the O2 sensors. Now, why would larger diameter pipes and collectors and better designed merges translate to lower engine back pressure and less noise? My guess is more laminar flow of the exhaust gasses than the turbulent flow created by the terrible OEM headers. That translates to less pressure loss from the headers and an increase in efficiency. Some other observations I have that may help others. The Fabspeed system looks very well made but I will agree is relatively expensive to other after market systems. From their video it seems they claim an advantage over the others by having 2" inlets into their muffler compared to 1 and 3/4 of the others. As much as I am attracted to that I can now not easily fit their system as the bulge in the intermediate pipe is a resonator and not a CAT so I would then have no CAT which would not be good. Their system has the CAT incorporated in their header so you really have to fit their entire system to make it work easily. It seems as though they have also altered the rear connection position between the intermediate pipe and the muffler so I cannot easily just fit just their muffler. I will probably end up buying Che's muffler as it will bolt straight onto my OEM intermediate pipe (containing my CAT). The only choke I will then have is the smaller diameter OEM intermediate pipe and CAT which may be another project for the future. In hindsight I probably should have just gone for the full Fabspeed system in the first place.....

[yellowboxster01]

Well, I bought the Stebro Racing muffler, yesterday. I didn't get the cat deletes because that auction isn't up anymore. I made an offer of $500 and they accepted it. $565 shipped was the final price, it should be here in a week or so. I'll put it up on the lift at work and install it. Doesn't appear it will be here before I'm off to Porsche Palooza but, oh well.

I'll take a video of it to better represent it than the Stebro video in traffic.

Can't wait, it should sound mean!!

[chaudanova]

Originally Posted by yellowboxster01

Well, I bought the Stebro Racing muffler, yesterday. I didn't get the cat deletes because that auction isn't up anymore. I made an offer of $500 and they accepted it. $565 shipped was the final price, it should be here in a week or so. I'll put it up on the lift at work and install it. Doesn't appear it will be here before I'm off to Porsche Palooza but, oh well.

I'll take a video of it to better represent it than the Stebro video in traffic.

Can't wait, it should sound mean!!

Yellowboxster, any updates/videos? And How do you think it would sound with EVO intake, headers, catbypass pipes, and the Stebro race muffler?

[edevlin]

admlmm, good write up on your header experience. When I went to aftermarket headers and 100-cell cats, the car sounded different and a little louder, especially at higher RPM's, but it wasnt until I put a Dansk muffler on it that it started making more noise.

Ed