Schnell Headers on 986 with Stock Exhaust

[panameras]

these maxspeed headers are not bad all. stainless steel, nice welds, neat merge collector. quite a bargain too at $575. what do you all think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320143166771&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us

[edevlin]

As I said in a previous post, I picked up about 6 hp with headers, and high-flow cats. I got another 4 hp or so with the addition of a TTP cold air intake. That gives only a 10 hp or so increase on my 2000 2.7L boxster with modding the intake and exhaust systems.

That increase is significantly less than many of the claims that are made for such mods, but I think those are pretty realistic numbers for improvements of the 2.7L engine. As i understand it, both the 2.5L and 3.2L engines respond better with more hp with some of these same mods.

When I chipped the car, I picked up a little over 12 additional hp on the dyno. That means that depending on the dyno run, I am doing these days, I am only getting 20-25 hp over stock than stock with a full-on intake, exhaust and chip mod of the car (about 205 hp at the wheels). Again, much less than some of the claims for these mods. That being said, the car runs great, it is quite responsive and I love the sound of the exhaust, but those additional horses were not cheap....


Ed

[rule1]

go to maxpeeds ebay store and where he is selling the header and muffler combo, My dyno results are there.

[noone986s]

For reference attached is the picture of the OEM header I removed.

Thanks

[Adam]

Originally Posted by noone986s

For reference attached is the picture of the OEM header I removed.

Thanks

That's the same exhaust manifold the 2.5L cars have. It looks like you were correct in assuming the non-US 2000-2004 cars are different.

[panameras]

Originally Posted by edevlin

That increase is significantly less than many of the claims that are made for such mods, but I think those are pretty realistic numbers for improvements of the 2.7L engine. As i understand it, both the 2.5L and 3.2L engines respond better with more hp with some of these same mods.

Thats true, its understandable that Porsche purposely restrained the power output of the 3.2 Boxster so it doesnt intimidate the 3.4 Carrera. Where as the 2.7 was tuned to its near maximum to keep up with the competition (Z4 3.0, SLK350 etc..)

[panameras]

Genuine Gemballa Headers on eBay! $1445usd!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GEMBALLA-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-HEADERS-FOR-PORSCHE-BOXSTER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46093QQihZ007QQ itemZ170137965043QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I wonder if these are indeed $870usd better than the $575 Maxspeed headers!

[Cloudsurfer]

I have the new FabSpeed exhaust, and unfortunately yes, it does drone in the 2-3k range. I am still on stock headers, but am looking for ideas there. The FabSpeed headers are gorgeous and I am sure will not cause any CEL related issues, but damn are they pricey.

Heres my latest idea for a perfect exhaust for these cars: High flow catted headers (a la FabSpeed) to guarantee improved flow and scavenging, yet also no CEL related issues. Secondary cat deletes. Now, heres where I would like to think I'm onto something: Stock 03 muffler, but with RPM activated dump valves (almost like turbo wastegates) BEFORE the muffler section, that begin to open at say, 3500 RPM, and are fully open by say, 4500 RPM. With this design you have a perfectly quiet car for normal driving and cruising, with no resonance issues, yet when you get on the power, as the RPMs rise and you get into the meat of the power curve, you get a very free flowing exhaust, that will sound glorious as well.

Anyone else think this could hold some promise? I have a very qualified shop here that could do the work on designing a system like this, and we could have a prototype I'd be happy to test.

Patrick

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bmwm750

I have the new FabSpeed exhaust, and unfortunately yes, it does drone in the 2-3k range. I am still on stock headers, but am looking for ideas there. The FabSpeed headers are gorgeous and I am sure will not cause any CEL related issues, but damn are they pricey.

Heres my latest idea for a perfect exhaust for these cars: High flow catted headers (a la FabSpeed) to guarantee improved flow and scavenging, yet also no CEL related issues. Secondary cat deletes. Now, heres where I would like to think I'm onto something: Stock 03 muffler, but with RPM activated dump valves (almost like turbo wastegates) BEFORE the muffler section, that begin to open at say, 3500 RPM, and are fully open by say, 4500 RPM. With this design you have a perfectly quiet car for normal driving and cruising, with no resonance issues, yet when you get on the power, as the RPMs rise and you get into the meat of the power curve, you get a very free flowing exhaust, that will sound glorious as well.

Anyone else think this could hold some promise? I have a very qualified shop here that could do the work on designing a system like this, and we could have a prototype I'd be happy to test.

Patrick

Bogg tried some valves like that on his stock muffler and the results...well lets just say some people liked it and some didn't. It didn't sound very "exotic." I'll try to find the videos he made. I do like the idea of using the stock muffler though with headers and bypass pipes. I think that would make a good combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08-uX9z_Rg4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpXhUN6-vsk&mode=related&search=

[panameras]

and with straight through pipes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1VI-rTaUmU

"Stock 03 muffler, but with RPM activated dump valves (almost like turbo wastegates) BEFORE the muffler section, that begin to open at say, 3500 RPM, and are fully open by say, 4500 RPM. With this design you have a perfectly quiet car for normal driving and cruising, with no resonance issues, yet when you get on the power, as the RPMs rise and you get into the meat of the power curve, you get a very free flowing exhaust, that will sound glorious as well.

Anyone else think this could hold some promise? I have a very qualified shop here that could do the work on designing a system like this, and we could have a prototype I'd be happy to test.

Patrick"

I like that idea very much. A bit like F430s when the cams open up at higher rpm. Not saying it will sound like a ferrari but the sudden "explosion" of exhaust note of a flat six should still be as sexy.

[edevlin]

"Genuine Gemballa Headers on eBay! $1445usd!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GEMB...sspagenameZWDVW

I wonder if these are indeed $870usd better than the $575 Maxspeed headers!"


I dont know, but most of the mechanics I talk to say that good headers for our cars are not cheap, because of the low volume of units sold. I think my german TTP headers for my 2.7L were 1,800.00. The shop that installed them loved them, they said the materials, welds and mating surfaces were as good or better than stock parts. They also said they had experience installing and then removing some pretty poor looking and fitting headers from other manufactures.

Ed

[Cloudsurfer]

I am familiar with Bogg's setup, and the main problem with that, in my opinion, is that you are stuck with the valves in one position, at all RPMS. That sound is going to be great at higher RPMs, but sound AWFUL at low RPMs. Many modern cars employ systems similar to this (Corvette, F430, etc) to gain the benefits of both a quiet exhaust for cruising and a free flowing exhaust for power.

The question to be resolved for my idea, is how to control the valves. Vacuum? Electric Servo? One hypothetical advantage of vacuum or pneumatic control, would be that at higher RPMS but low power settings, there may not be enough force to open the valves, which could be a good thing. I'd look at starting to open the valves somewhere around 3500-4000 RPM, and have them fully open by 4500-5000 RPM. This way, you are not intruding at all on cruising noise levels.

This may be a winter project.

Patrick

[noone986s]

You could install these electric ones.....

http://www.badlanzhpe.com/index.html

.....and then get a cheap shift light circuit from ebay, hack it and use the ouput of that to drive a relay circuit (rather than lighting the shift light) and you could have a configurable exhaust valve.

If you could have the valves opening into bypass pipes then I think you could be on to a winner. I am not 100% on the sound but like the idea.

[Cloudsurfer]

That could be one way of doing this, though I am thinking of a more progressive opening, over say, a 1000 RPM from beginning to open to fully open, rather than just a hard RPM point from open/close.

There needs to be a bit more engineering put into this, perhaps it will become a winter project.

Patrick

[panameras]

Just put my order through for a set of Maxspeed headers. Will dyno it afterwards to see how they perform on my 3.2.

Baseline was 168rwkw on a very hot day.

[rule1]

good choice!!!

[jwilson95]

Hey Panameras-

Please update us on the results from a HP gain and sound/feel perspective. I talked to my local pcar mechanic and his basic answer to me was, "WHY?". You're not going to gain much HP and going to be throwing CEL codes all over the place. Our situations are different because of the integrated cat in my headers. I think I'd be much more likely to do it if we had the Euro headers here with only 2 cats.

Good luck and hope you like them.

[Cloudsurfer]

Unfortunately, if you want headers on US Spec cars, I think the only real choices are Cargraphic and FabSpeed as they have high flow cats in the headers. Pricey, very pricey however. I do think there are power gains to be had though, considering the dismal design of the factory headers on this car.

Patrick

[panameras]

Received the headers today :dance: quite excited as you can imagine! It was paid last friday and they arrived here nicely packed (including gaskets and studs) on Wednesday. Not bad for delivering half way across the globe! Abosultely happy with their service. Going to put them on the car tomorrow. Will record some sound files for before and after. For the mean time here are some pictures that I took this afternoon

[panameras]

Now can any forum moderators change the title of this thread to Maxspeed headers on 986..... instead of schnell?