got my ecu tuned by powerchip

[eslai]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Eslai: Are you kidding? I've spent months and months trying to find a single product that guaranteed themselves so I would not have to waste $$.

I don't know if you remember when I joined but that was the first thing I asked about; Mods.

Yeah, and even then we all said the same thing--no such thing as a cheap, worthwhile power mod.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by eslai

Yeah, and even then we all said the same thing--no such thing as a cheap, worthwhile power mod.

Don't take this offensively, but I found many of your (not you in particular) definitions of "worthwhile" to be strange. Many of you believe that $1000 for 10hp is a rip-off, whereas I would jump all over something like that.



Which is why I didn't take many of you seriously and still don't sometimes, because it seems as if a mod doesn't yield substantial gains, you (again, not you in particular) deem it not worthwhile.



Not that some mods aren't total crap because I know many are, but you get my point. It's a difference in opinion.

[der Geist]

This is a really controversial subject it appears Here are a couple of my thoughts-

Most companies set their cars up for the lowest common denominator. As I understand it 93 octane is nonexistent in many cities. It makes sense to me that a car would not be tuned to take advantage of this from the factory and that a chip would. It may not be a huge difference but it must account for something.

I noticed that all the spec boxsters are going to be using the powerchip. I also see a lot of tuning chip decals on race cars and they aren't all turbos. Do the spec boxster guys know something we don't ?

This subject generates loads of criticism here. I just picked up an '06 Audi A4 so I joined one of the Audi boards to learn about it a little. Seems like everyone puts in chips and it is one of the first mods done. Of course the Audi chips are $200.00 less than the Porsche chips. Can't imagine why though!!!

A chip, intake and exhaust should cost less than 2,000.00 and yield roughly 25 HP if I understand everyone correctly. If that's the case I don't think the cheapest way to increase HP is to move to a same year "S" model. Although the "S" models do have a whole lot of extras making the move a tempting one I am not sure the added HP would be enough on it's own. When I bought my Boxster then 3 years old all the "S" versions were selling for 5 to 10 thousand more.

Personally, I think the auto makers like everyone tinkering with the cars. It adds a competitiveness and builds brand loyalty. The guys running the show aren't all dummkopfs you know. Don't underestimate how much free advertising and brand loyalty all these mods generate.

Finally maybe someone can answer a stupid question here. Won't the butt-dyno register a lot higher with someone who weighs 150 to 180 pounds than it will with someone in the 220 to 250 pound range? I certainly don't mean to offend anyone as I am in the middle of those two ranges creeping upwards a little every year myself...My point-isn't it a lot easier to move an object from 0 to 60 a lot faster when there is 70 pounds less in the drivers seat and won't it be substantially more noticeable? Maybe that's why the younger (skinnier) drivers swear by chips and the older more experienced owners don't seem to notice as much of a difference. Course I could be all off base on that too but it does seem to make sense. Any Physicists care to comment?

After reading all this I am still committed to purchasing a chip. I have the exhaust, the intake and I just lost 15 pounds. I am leaning towards the Revo though so if anyone is interested in doing a group buy PM me and we'll give it a shot.

[eslai]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Don't take this offensively, but I found many of your (not you in particular) definitions of "worthwhile" to be strange. Many of you believe that $1000 for 10hp is a rip-off, whereas I would jump all over something like that.



Which is why I didn't take many of you seriously and still don't sometimes, because it seems as if a mod doesn't yield substantial gains, you (again, not you in particular) deem it not worthwhile.



Not that some mods aren't total crap because I know many are, but you get my point. It's a difference in opinion.

What mods are there that give you ten discernable horsepower for $1000? I can't think of any! 10 horsepower for $1000 WOULD be a great deal on a Boxster. A full exhaust system will cost you three to five grand and net you about 10 to 15 horses.

The argument is more "you're not even getting what you've paid for", rather than "you're spending too much for mods of measureable worth". The mods in this price range are generally debateable. If you want REAL horsepower as opposed to "placebo" or "maybe" horsepower, you have to pony up, so to speak.

[super66]

hey bav, I'm not dumping for the record on spending 1000 for 10 horsepower, I would do it if it was supported by something.....I just don't like the fact that the maker of the chip I think came on here to debunk MN's theories.....

yet he tried to debunk them without any proof....its like this, I'm a sales guy, and my work doesn't necessarily believe I've done my work unless they have the dials and entries into our database to prove it.....so I just saw their add in a magazine claiming my boxster is going to produce 259 HP with their chip.....but no where does it show proof.....

one thing to think about, remember the Che (??) dude and the post where he gave away an exhaust system for exchange of running dyno reports....well there is the challenge, you said this guy puts his money were his mouth is right? have them set your ecu to factory, you go get the tests done to see what you're running....and then have him reprogram it and you pay for the tests again....if it comes out, everyone on the board will be believers of the gains and I'll fork over 600 bucks no problem to get 0 horses no problem

[edevlin]

"After reading all this I am still committed to purchasing a chip. I have the exhaust, the intake and I just lost 15 pounds."

If you have not already done so, you may want to go to a lightweight battery (25-30 lbs savings) and loose your spare (do 03's still have spares... for another 30 lbs savings) and the car will pick up a little zip, what fun......


Ed

[drburton]

Interesting thread. After looking at the cayman forum where they have been doing alot of dyno testing on mods, it seems like you would be best served to go with a header+exhaust mod if you want to gain HP.

I am attaching a link with some of that information. The Miltek header and catback exhaust seem to be getting the best gains.

http://www.caymanclub.net/showthread.php?t=10011

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

The issue here is the use of the dyno to measure any effect.

It doesn't matter whether it's a Chassis or Inertial Dyno, the effects you're trying to measure are too close to the degree of error to really mean anything.

People wanna sluff these off, but there are so many ways to skew the testing, both consciously and inadvertently. These Dynos are for Tuning, not determining absolute values.

The error possible is just too great, and from little things such as electrical load, gear selection, corrections (either manually or software), etc.

Also, Drivetrain losses are often waay too under/over estimated. All testing s/b be recorded only in 4th gear as this is as close to 1:1 as possible and best measures only the flywheel output. The Frictional losses in the Tranny will only account for a 0.5%-1.0% parasitic loss - not the 18%-22% often just pulled out of the air. Most drivetrain loss occurs in the Tires and varies widely from Tire-to-Tire, so much so that no meaningful generalization can be made.

Each error, such as Temperature or Barometric Pressure, or insufficient cooling, etc. may only introduce errors of 1% or 2%, but these errors compound themselves and soon you have error of 10-15% when your measured gain is 8-10%, meaning that you cannot be sure of any gain at all.

You can try to eliminate errors, such as doing Baseline Runs when the engine is HOT (most don't do this), or have an accurate weather model, again, most don't or plug in regional data which can be very different than at the Dyno itself.

The only Dyno which is accurate for the engine is a Bench Dyno. It measures the flywheel specifically. Chassis or inertial Dynos are only useful in monitoring changes while tuning, and even then are subject to great error if the operator dosen't know what they're doing...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99