I was casually following your thread, thinking I might get to that some day.

Today I ran my 'flood damaged' 01 for a couple minutes after getting the electronics fixed. The plan was to warm it up, then change the oil. It smoked and ran VERY rough for about 30 seconds before I shut her down. :eek: Now I suddenly remember an old friend who parked his troubled car by the boat ramp just before a flood and got a nice insurance claim.

I'll be following this thread a bit more intently now.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1412380550.jpg

I'm going to get a different engine for the car, but plan to tear this one down for the exercise.

Wow that's a lot of metal. WAY more than I found.

I wanted to post a quick update, since I haven't posted up in a while. I went on a motorcycle trip with my oldest son and then I had to do the transmission valve body in our Touareg. It's been many years since I did work on an automatic. It reminds me of camping on the beach, where you find sand in your a** crack and every other place for weeks.

That's complete now, so I'm able to get back to my Porsche. Last night after regrouping my tools and cleaning up I dropped my oil pan.

Not a single chip of metal. There was the tiniest of gray stains built up near the base of the baffle but not enough to even get under a fingernail. I expected it to look like a metal version of Don King's hair. Instead it would appear that my oil filter performed as intended and/or my timing was impeccable.

I did a bunch more reading on various paths I can take with my IMS. The short version is that I feel like it would be dumb to not pull the IMS cover and replace it just because I'm in there.

I did determine that my engine is a double row IMS, not single as previously discussed. Staring at a picture last night on Pelican, I finally noticed the part numbers on the face of the IMS cover and compared mine to this pic on the Pelican site:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...all/Pic013.jpg

My part number ends in 1702, so it would appear that I'm indeed double row.

No more progress? You haven't forgotten us, have you?

No, but thanks for the reminder.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to do a complete tear down - yet. My reasoning is as follows:
1) All of the metal found was contained in the factory oil filter. My oil pan was super clean.
2) My flickering oil pressure light at hot idle is (deduced from quite a bit of surfing) likely from a failing AOS. My oil cap was difficult to remove, there was huge suction at the oil filler tube with the cap off, and I pulled the top tube of the AOS and it's very oily. It did not produce clouds of smoke, nor did it run lousy with the oil cap removed.

During my period of silence I purchased an LN IMS tool set from a fellow inmate and cleaned up all the parts I've thus far removed. Actually I suckered my youngest kid into doing most of it. He over achieved in most cases. For example, my shift cable heat shield looks show car ready. I said "son this isn't a show car, it's a daily driver" then he proceeded to make my transmission mounts just as clean. Damn kids.

This past Saturday I cleaned the inside of the transmission bell housing, detail stripped all of the clutch fork components and then did a half ass job of cleaning the rest of the transmission. Call it "survivor" grade cleaning. Your hands will be clean after handling it but I wouldn't serve Kobe beef on it.

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...ps400536a3.jpg

I'm actually planning on replacing everything in this picture. There is clear wear on most components, and of course the throw out bearing is a "don't be a fool, as long as you're in there..." part. I have a short list of parts to order from Pelican that will upgrade the clutch lever to the later non-squeaky type.

On the morning I did the clean up I had actually gone out to the garage to pull the flywheel then realized I didn't have the required T55 torx bit. It was dumping rain at the time, my woman was gone with the Touareg and I didn't feel like suiting up on the bike for the task. Glad I passed too, because we had a tornado (actually a water spout) not three miles from my place. The path of devastation included a knocked over lawn chair. Whew! Dodged it.

That evening I picked up a T55 and proceeded to ruin it without breaking a single flywheel bolt loose. The next morning I picked up a (hopefully) more substantial bit and a set of hardened L wrenches with torx ends on them. With luck they'll last long enough to get all six bolts removed.

After that I whip out the IMS removal tool and make that happen.

As I said earlier, I'm not going to do a complete tear down yet. I do have to find out where the metal came from and determine my level of risk from there. If my IMS is clean then the next likely source of metal would seem to be cam chain tensioners.

Before I blindly order all three tensioners (they don't exactly come in cereal boxes) I'm going to pull them and inspect. Prior to me parking the car I was getting a very short bit of rattle on cold start and that is also reported to be a tensioner issue.

Lastly, I've made a decision regarding replacement IMS. I'm absolutely going to pull the existing bearing and use it as a paper weight. After doing some research on the options I decided to to the EPS roller bearing.

Logic is as follows (and I welcome dissent, as I've not purchased the bearing yet):

My car is a double row bearing. Thus, the LN/F6 IMS "Solution" is not an option for me. I don't see where there is any talk of creating a forced oil plain bearing replacement for the double row version. Even if there were discussion there isn't one on the market, and I don't want to have my car sticking it's ass in the air for any longer than is absolutely required.

I asked EPS for some statistics and they responded that they have put out 800 bearings in the past two years with zero failures. If anyone knows differently I'd like to hear about it.

Simply put, I know that a plain bearing offers the best support of a spinning shaft. The spinning component literally hydroplanes on a layer of oil, the contact patch is pretty damn good and there is zero metal to metal contact when running. In contrast, a ball bearing has an almost infinitely small contact patch and it's on one ball at a time as the bearing spins (discounting harmonics, which I know isn't realistic but stick with me here).

Again, there's no plain bearing option for my double row car currently on the market. A roller bearing offers a way larger contact patch than a ball bearing, so it seems to me that it is at least a lower risk option than the stock bearing set up. How's that for carefully worded?

There's more at play here. In reading Mr Raby's posts he is rightfully quite protective of his development of a one and done solution. Prior to installation he wants engines qualified to see if they are even worth doing. I was unable to test for cam deviations prior to parking my car. For that matter I was unable to perform a leak down test too, but I'm ordering the equipment to do so right now. But what there was, was metal in the filter. Well under .25cc. No chunks, just super tiny stuff.

I've read in his posts and I believe his statement has been along the lines that if there was metal he'd rather you install a competitors product and then report your long term results.

Am I pacing back and forth a bit? Hell yes. Without knowing for sure where the metal came from I'd be a fool to button it back up and drive. But if it's tensioners and AOS, and my current IMS runs smooth then I'd be in for a ton of work (100% dissassembly of my engine) to find out that maybe my car was okay.

The flickering oil light makes hot stuff come up in the back of my throat. I really hope it's the AOS and not that my main bearings are toast. After getting the car running I'll also be hooking up a test gauge to check what my oil pressure really is. Perhaps a gooey pressure switch or faulty pressure relief valve is at play.

Had I really planned this out in advance I would have obtained cable/software and checked for cam deviations. I would have done that oil pressure check and I would have done a leak down test. I didn't.

What I'm looking at from here is about $1000 worth of parts to set the wheels back on the ground and run it.

Depending on what I learn after that I'll either be back in, or I'll have a car I can drive for a while. If it's the latter then my plan is to find a core 3.2 (or 996 engine) and do a 100% tear down/rebuild on it and have it ready to go for chapter 2.

Nice. I see you're in WA. If you want any more help with anything (beer?) PM me. I'm at least in the same state.

Great reading, thanks for that

Luck with the car mate

Tucker (and everyone else who has responded either in this thread of via PM),

Thanks. I'm getting many supportive messages from people who are making the same decisions or at least want to know what they may be facing at some point.

Porsche owners really are turning out to be well grounded and non - ego driven. It's as if they're not compensating for anything ;)

unfortunately its not all Porsche owners, its most of the ones on this forum. go have a look at some of the other forums, especially 911/996/997/981 forums. Its a completely different atmosphere.

Thats not to say that there are not lots of great non-986 drivers that are great, but....

Its us Boxster drivers that are cool people :cheers:

almost makes me not want to get a 996 for my wife

Even if you get one, you still get to hang out here:D Definitely one of the most civilized forums.

Thy can pull my Boxster out of my cold dead hands

lol kind of the same thought I have... keep eyeing a used 996 c4 for sale locally. ...winter is coming, after all.

Just don't want to start wandering over on those other forums. I usually need a shower after to get the stank off.

Oh and thanks OP for the update ! good reading :)

maybe if enough of us 986 owners get a 996 as an extra car we can take over the 996 forums and civilize them. :cheers:

You know, there's a time for glitter. If your daughter likes unicorns, for example.

If you're pressed for time or just impatient, the short version is that I have a failed double row IMS bearing.

The long version goes like this.

First off I feel like an idiot because I've been talking about the cam chain tensioners, which for some reason I had hallucinated as having their metal tips riding directly on the cam chains, when in fact they merely push on the non-metallic cam chain guides. My Bentley manual showed up yesterday and the diagrams cleared this up completely. While they are a likely source of cold start chain rattle, this would seem to remove them from the list of potential suspects. Duh.

As it turns out, finding Godzilla didn't turn out to be difficult anyway.

Read on.

After some challenges removing the flywheel bolts I managed to remove my flywheel. The main problem getting the bolts off is that the socket head isn't very deep, so you have to have some pretty good steel in your T55 bit if it's going to get anything off. Average tools from the local auto parts store need not apply. My 1/2" impact wrench didn't have the go power to crack any of them loose, so I had to at least get them to turn using mechanical advantage.

After years of looking around and finding something I could use as a cheater pipe I finally broke down and got a proper 1/2" breaker bar and by being really careful I was able to get all the bolts to turn and then zoom them off with the impact wrench. Prior to removing the dual mass flywheel I tested it and it returns to center fairly well.

After that I removed the firewall panel from inside the car, rotated the engine to TDC, plucked the cam plugs out and locked the cams. By the way, if the cam locks you have don't come with the bolt used to hold them to the cylinder head, the bolts that held the pressure plate to the flywheel (you know, the ones you were going to replace anyway) are the perfect size. After locking I removed the tensioners for the IMS to crank, and the right side chain.

Nothing to see here, move along.
Another by the way: If you have a 5 chain engine and the book tells you that you don't have to remove the camshaft end plugs for the upper cams, they're not kidding. Even if you're an exploratory belt and suspenders kind of guy there are no notches in the upper cam shafts to lock anything to.

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...psa85b44d3.jpg
Crappy phone pic. Sorry.
It was go time. I removed the three bolts holding on the IMS bearing cover and removed the cover. Then I installed the IMS bearing puller and got to cranking.

The snap ring eventually snapped the way it is supposed to and the bearing came out. The tool worked perfectly by the way.

So about the unicorns... :ah:

This is what greeted me when I got the bearing out of the removal tool:
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...ps799aa4db.jpg

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9f0c62b9.jpg

I pried the seals out and gently worked the bearing cages out, then got it all apart.
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...psd17517b2.jpg

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/...psca42642e.jpg

F word.

In other news today, I ordered all the parts for my clutch from Pelican on Thursday and just took the free ground shipping. The package was here today on a Saturday morning. Can't get much more awesome than that.

Ouch! Not good but not too bad either. Complete failure was just avoided. Any longer and it would of been the marbles in the can failure which the engine consumes itself. Looks like just the bearing cage has shredded but not completely? Perhaps someone can chime in on how much material that is. Im guessing next step is clean up? Or possible tear down to do a clean up? There looks to be some grit in there but can't really tell. I suggest LN Spin On Oil Filter Adapter. Not a fix to get rid of the debris, but insurance to help minimize any further debris spreading after your clean up which ever route you take.

I've been following this thread with great interest and hope everything ends where your Box is back on the road. Good luck.

I've been following along with my '01 about a week behind. I'm glad that you at least found the easily identifiable problem. +1 on the LN spin-on adapter. It prevents oil from bypassing the filter.

A few suggestions to add for earlier in the thread:
I picked up a good wrench/bit for the transmission bolt at Lowes. It worked easily with a 8mm wrench and bar:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1413822861.jpg

Also whenever I unbolt a transmission, I like to keep track of what goes where by sticking them in a piece of cardboard:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1413822965.jpg


Also I had one driveshaft bolt that would not come out. Eventually it became stripped enough that the wrench was useless. The easy solution was to turn the shaft so that bolt was on the bottom, then grind off the head. With just a little prying the shaft came off over it. The rest of the bolt was easy to remove after starting it with pliers.

Thanks again for the thread and keep the updates coming.

f350,
That wrench looks like it would work perfectly. If I don't put the hardware back right after removal then I typically will do the same cardboard piece you show in your picture. Given the nature of every bolt being different for the 986, it saves a lot of time. I arranged all of mine on the bench where they are still sitting and then took a phone pic of them just in case they get moved.

For anyone who messes up, Wayne did a bolt by bolt blow of the arrangement either in his book or on his web page for engine removal. Thanks Wayne!

f350, I also saw on another thread that you're the proud owner of a set of IMS tools so you really are close behind me.

rp17,
If anything the bearing cages seem okay but the bearing races both inner and outer are rough - ironically the inner one is rough for part of the way around and smooth for the rest of the way. The balls are also a bit pitted.

I cleaned out the inside of the intermediate shaft and the debris seemed to be contained near the bearing and it was clean as it went past 1/3 of the way back.

For f350 and those following, when I first got the bearing cover off and touched the bearing it seemed "okay" with only the tiniest amount of roughness detectable (which always means the bearing is toast). The center bolt did have a bit of slop so I knew I was uncovering something. I just had no idea until the bearing was in my hand and the glitter was all present that it hit me just how far gone it was.

It has taken me a few days of pacing about, soul searching and even laying awake at night trying to plan my next move. I really wanted to believe that I had dodged the big one and that I might be able to install a new IMS and do some oil changes.

I also wanted to believe that Santa was real. I had a number of "what if's" going on in my head.

What if there is scoring on my crankshaft, or my main/rod bearings? What if I take the short cut and get my car back together and it makes it 1,000 miles and it ends with a clunk? What if I got it all back together including the new AOS, and still got a blinking oil light? What if I did get a clean bearing installed and my crank was fine but there was a hand full of glitter waiting in my oil cooler or oil pressure relief valve just waiting to contaminate a perfectly good bearing and then score up my crankshaft?

Would I ever really trust this engine to take my car on a road trip 500 miles from home, trashing a canyon somewhere 40 miles from the nearest tow truck? Not really.

I miss driving the car but I can't allow that to cloud my judgement and then end up with a smoking boat anchor.

When I shared my thoughts with my woman she said "You should tear it apart. You know how, you enjoy working on it and you bought the car as a hobby".

I had also recently queried Mr Raby to see if he had plans to do a plain bearing for those of us who own two row cars. He sent a quick reply telling me that the market isn't large enough to justify it, and also to please not install any LN products in my engine. That was a pretty direct statement. I'm guessing he doesn't carefully peel bandaids off either.

Damn that Santa Claus anyway.

So I'm going to proceed with the complete tear down. I will hold every part of this engine in my hands before long. I will get down to a bare crankshaft which I will need to have polished and checked for straightness. Jake also urged me to have everything cleaned ultrasonically to make sure every bit of debris is out.

That decision made, Chapter 2 begins this week with removal of the engine and the beginning of the tear down.

Good call, do it nice or do it twice!

I selfishly agree that following Jake's advice is a good call. I installed his IMS Guardian. If it ever alerts the same advice he gave is what will be followed. Because you have the skill and have proven that you can and will document the tear down and rebuild your work will be my model. I have the dual row and wish that there could be an oil feed solution for the dul row. I understand totally that the market has to be there for the investement return FlatSix needs to do the design.