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-   -   Oiling issue on the track.... took my motor today (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-racing-forum/75460-oiling-issue-track-took-my-motor-today.html)

maytag 06-01-2019 10:36 PM

Oiling issue on the track.... took my motor today
 
Hey y'all;
I think the new rubber stuck well enough today that I must've been oil-starving the motor in some sweepers. I thought it developed a noise, but couldn't really reproduce it.
3 miles after leaving the track, it started knocking, really badly.
So I towed it home.

I'll tear into it when I can.... but I'm dead in the water, again. ::sigh::

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Racer Boy 06-02-2019 08:45 AM

Uh-oh. Sorry to hear that!

That's why I went with 200 treadwear tires instead of the stickiest options. Two of the tracks that I go to have long left-hand sweepers, which seem to be the bane of our M96 motors.

AZ986S 06-02-2019 11:23 AM

Maytag

Sorry to hear about the knock...
When you start pushing it, these motors will oil starve.
I have my setup well documented with schematics and photos if you are interested.
Been working for me the last 100 hours of hard track time.

Regards

maytag 06-02-2019 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Boy (Post 596714)
Uh-oh. Sorry to hear that!

That's why I went with 200 treadwear tires instead of the stickiest options. Two of the tracks that I go to have long left-hand sweepers, which seem to be the bane of our M96 motors.

Yeah, east track in Utah has plenty of left handers, but all relatively slow/ quick, si Friday was uneventful.
But the west track on Saturday, the are several long, fast, high-g left- handers. I should've been thinking about that. But I wasn't. ::sigh::

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maytag 06-02-2019 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ986S (Post 596722)
Maytag



Sorry to hear about the knock...

When you start pushing it, these motors will oil starve.

I have my setup well documented with schematics and photos if you are interested.

Been working for me the last 100 hours of hard track time.



Regards

Thanks AZ. so, what have you done for the oiling setup?

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AZ986S 06-02-2019 05:35 PM

Maytag

I don't want to hijack your thread, but here's a quick summary.
I lost a motor almost 2 years ago and ended up buying a used 3.2 motor with 30K miles. It ended up being a factory rebuilt with the big IMS bearing. The only thing I did to the bearing during install was remove the outer seal for better oil lubrication. I also installed a 2L Accusump in the center tunnel (yes it fits, but it's tight) because I didn't want it in the trunk. From what I know, here are the traditional quick things that can be done to reduce the oiling system starvation:

* Add oil volume. Most install a deep oil sump plate with 0.5 to 2L extra oil. I did not want to do this as my car was lowered. So my oil pan is stock. There is debate on how effective this is.

* Replace the factory plastic oil baffles with the EBS style improved metal baffles. I installed this in my stock oil sump plate.

You could also install a remote oil filter if you wanted. I did this so I could use synthetic media oil filters and racing filters. This also gives you the possibility of adding in thermostatic oil cooling, but I did not do this as the stock Boxster S oil cooler does a pretty good job.

Ideally, a dry-sump system would be the best, and I believe Cervelli has developed one, but I think it is pretty expensive still. So short of that, I believe that an oil accumulator will help tremendously (i.e. Accusump, but there are others). The idea is to have pressurized oil released into the oiling system when the oil pressure is low (such as when there is starvation at the oil pump pick up). So if you are not wheel to wheel racing and don't mind the extra 10-15 lbs or so, that is the way to go. It also adds another 1.5 quart or so of oil. Another thing to note is that I like to use filters that have the anti-drainback flapper. I also use a check valve. This is absolutely necessary since without at least one of these, you will loose the benefit of the Accusump.

I also have installed a toggle switch to manually turn on the front radiator fans to help reduce the coolant temp (and that reduces oil temp). I run the fans mostly during the entire session and then after the session for 5 minutes or so or until the oil temp drop below 200F (I have an oil temp and oil pressure gage setup).

You can pull up my YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI3kmU0mGhymRMFM1l-4uKw?view_as=subscriber) and I have documented various track day setups with data logging analysis to show that the best setup is to just run the Accusump with a remotely operated manual ball valve or an electrically operated solenoid valve that stays open during the track session. But for me, the issue was also that I wanted to also have the pre-oiling capability for reducing cold starting related wear, so I went with Canton's EPC valve, but I added a switch for the ability to bypass the pressure switch. This last step is crucial as the pressure switch and solenoid valve induce an unacceptable lag time in supplying oil under pressure. So I just wait until I start rolling onto the track and I then open the valve with a toggle switch. I have a ton of data showing a huge reduction in oil pressure drop spikes, effectively smoothing out the oil pressure.

I also keep my oil level at full or even 1 bar above full, but that varies depending on how full the Accusump is. Just make sure your AOS is working or get the Motorsports version. This entire season, I did not even have to use a full quart of oil to top off, so I know the motor is tight.


Anyways, if you are considering a similar setup, I can PM you the info.


Hope this helps, and hope your engine is not completely dead:(

NewArt 06-02-2019 06:03 PM

That’s sad. I do know how it feels but at least mine had the decency to blow at the end of the season! Big job and big decisions ahead for you. good luck!

P_Carfahrer 06-03-2019 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytag (Post 596686)
Hey y'all;
I think the new rubber stuck well enough today that I must've been oil-starving the motor in some sweepers. I thought it developed a noise, but couldn't really reproduce it.
3 miles after leaving the track, it started knocking, really badly.
So I towed it home.

I'll tear into it when I can.... but I'm dead in the water, again. ::sigh::

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Nooooo!!!!! When you drove away it sure sounded like the exhaust bypass valve was the culprit.

I feel some responsibility in this from me shooting tire temps and seeing the tires could take more pushing and the subsequent decision to go faster.

If you can use any help at all in the subsequent work, I am more than willing to come down.

maytag 06-03-2019 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer (Post 596801)
Nooooo!!!!! When you drove away it sure sounded like the exhaust bypass valve was the culprit.

I feel some responsibility in this from me shooting tire temps and seeing the tires could take more pushing and the subsequent decision to go faster.

If you can use any help at all in the subsequent work, I am more than willing to come down.

You're awesome.
I think the forum would be interested in what we saw with the tire temps, too. Wanna post some of that?
It was fun, feeling like we were learning something!

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maytag 06-03-2019 03:59 PM

So..... yeaaaahhhhh.
I removed the serpentine belt, just to eliminate the easy stuff.

It's not the easy stuff.

https://youtu.be/_RXBzNvhoGo


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jsceash 06-03-2019 04:09 PM

Curious what Oil pressure mods if any you are running.
Knock sounds bad, hope you can get to the bottom of it without excessive expense.

maytag 06-03-2019 04:09 PM

And here I am, breaking the news to my wife. I try to include her in "discovery", as it eases the eventual conversation about options. Haha.

https://youtu.be/Jf30DNWAeU0


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maytag 06-03-2019 04:45 PM

Based on the pretty colors in the oil and filter, and what percentage of it is ferrous.... I'm guessing bearing shell went, and started on the crank. That 100% points to the theory about oil starvation being the impetus.

Here's a video of a lap that illustrates the -several- long, left sweepers on this track.

https://youtu.be/xQ8-Fs_pbp4

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Racer Boy 06-03-2019 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytag (Post 596817)
And here I am, breaking the news to my wife. I try to include her in "discovery", as it eases the eventual conversation about options. Haha.

https://youtu.be/Jf30DNWAeU0


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Why did the video end when she asked you what all the metal in the filter and oil meant? Too much profanity and violence for YouTube?

Time to drop an Audi V8 in that thing!

maytag 06-03-2019 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Boy (Post 596827)



Time to drop an Audi V8 in that thing!

Waddya know about that? Keeps all the gauges and functionality? Keeps the street-ability of the car?

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Topless 06-03-2019 08:13 PM

Bummer! I agree that motor is boat anchor status now. I watched the vid and didn't see any extreme banked sweepers or super high rpm. You kept it in the 4-6k range in the corners which usually protects the 986 motor pretty well.

Our Mitigation over 10 years on the PCA Time Trial circuit:

- 5w40 Castrol full synthetic and we watched oil temps, ending the session if things got to 240F

-Oil level matters and we made sure it was exactly topped before every session.

-We added the X51 pan but no other mechanical oiling mods. I didn't like the deep sump or the Accu-sump solutions.

- We stay off the rev limiter except down a long straight. High rpm in mid corner or zinging too high on heel-toe downshifts in a heavy braking zone has taken several motors according to the data logs.

200+ track days between two 986 BSX cars and no motors lost. Whew! :cheers:

AZ986S 06-04-2019 03:52 PM

Dan I watched the video and it looks like you had a couple of pretty high revving downshifts in a hard braking zone prior to a left turn... might not have helped. But other than that, seamed pretty innocent.

Racer Boy 06-04-2019 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytag (Post 596830)
Waddya know about that? Keeps all the gauges and functionality? Keeps the street-ability of the car?

No, but it bolts up to the transaxle. I also believe that the engine is physically smaller than a LS small block, so there is less fabrication gymnastics involved.

maytag 06-04-2019 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Boy (Post 596928)
No, but it bolts up to the transaxle. I also believe that the engine is physically smaller than a LS small block, so there is less fabrication gymnastics involved.

Im much better at the "fabrication gymnastics" than I am with the electronics. That's my big concern.

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husker boxster 06-05-2019 05:42 AM

Did you run with the stock sump baffle?

Sustained high rpm runs will damage bearings. That's why I shift at 6K rpm.


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