Track Pads Questions

[Burg Boxster]

The general "consensus" is compromise equals loosing on both sides of the coin - always.

Pads are so stinking simple to swap in/out on 9x6 and 9x7 platforms you should keep street pads for street and get a dedicated set of track pads like PFC for DE. Not to mention you WILL bleed your brakes before each DE and will therefore already be "in there".

Brakes are one of two things one shouldn't compromise on... ESPECIALLY for HPDE in any run group above novice.

Good luck

[bcrdukes]

Thanks, Burg Boxster. But I should be open and up front that i am NEW to HPDE. I went to a track day once on my factory pads and I "think "they were ok. I'm not sure if I can get away with a few track day session with stock pads or if I should get a dedicated set.

[MaxD]

If you are going to start running HPDEs regularly definitely get track pads. Pagid orange are a good track pad. I have run them on the street and they are not that noisy. That said, they are not quiet low dust street compounds.

As Burg points out it is not that hard to change pads and it is something you should learn to do. Bleeding brakes is the other thing to learn if you haven't done it. You will want to change out you brake fluid to something with a higher boiling point. ATE, Motul and SRF (what I run) all work well. Bleeding is something you will do at a minimum annually.

The oranges are a good starting point. Everyone has an opinion about what are the best pads. It largely ends up being preference. The best thing about brake pads is they wear out and if you didn't like them get new ones in a different compound or from another manufacture.

Also keep an eye on you rotors - they are consumables too. Aggressive pads with lots of metal in them wear rotors quite quickly. The pagids are relatively rotor friendly.

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by MaxD

Bleeding brakes is the other thing to learn if you haven't done it. You will want to change out you brake fluid to something with a higher boiling point. ATE, Motul and SRF (what I run) all work well. Bleeding is something you will do at a minimum annually.

Agree and likewise somewhat disagree ...

Bleeding/flushing is SUPER easy and one SHOULD learn how to DIY. Three main reasons why:

1. it's probably the cheapest DE 'insurance' you can buy (and a v good habit to get into)
2. you might need to do so AT a track some day (maybe Sat night before Sun) - wanna be scrounging pits Sat after track goes cold when everyone else is having a brewski asking for anyone who has a power bleeder and or knows what they are doing. Everyone is always willing to help which is great but......
3. most dealers/shops charge ~2+ hrs labor (think $250-$450+) when honestly it costs ~ $30-75/liter (only one needed) for DOT 4 fluid and $75 one time for a power bleeder.

Bleeding needs done before EVERY track event (it's on most Event Inspection Forms - PCA especially). Period, end of story UNLESS using SRF or RBF. Over the years I cannot tell you how many incidents I have seen occur when afterwards a driver said "I thought I could get one more day before I had to bleed again".

Good luck

[husker boxster]

To add to or reiterate some of the sage advice already given...

It takes longer to get your 986 or 987 up on jack stands and the tires off than it takes to replace pads. It's a very easy process on these models (and 911 variants). IF you're going to be doing multiple DEs per yr, you can zip tie the wear sensors away from the pads since you'll be "in there" to monitor the wear. Unless you bring a spare set to the track, NEVER start a DE if your pads are less than 50%. You don't want to go home early b/c you've run out of pad.

As you progress up the run group ladder, you'll prob wear out OEM pads in a weekend as your driving becomes more agressive. OEMs will work (for a w/e) but they were also designed for quiet performance on the street. You'll need to find the right pad, whether it's a street / track pad up to a strictly track pad. If you go with a street / track pad, you give up a bit of bite but have lower dust and less rotor deterioration. Upper level pure track pads will give you plenty of bite (when warm) but will be dusty, noisy, and chew up your rotors. Only you can decide what works for you on the track and your wallet. Your home track may be tough on brakes or it might be easy on them - every track is different so it becomes difficult for us to recommend the perfect solution (but we'll try). Ask around the paddock what others are using and what are the pluses and minuses (there will be both). Just remember, everyone makes their own decision on cost vs performance and you need to figure out what works for you.

When replacing pads (either going street to track or back from track to street), bed the pads in. I do 20-60-20mph runs 10 times. You should smell your brakes by the end. Others will have their fav way to bed them in.

Defn learn how to bleed your brakes yourself. There are several good tools avail to allow you to do it by yourself. Buy one. Many use Motive, myself included.

[MaxD]

One point of clarification on PCA tech.

From the latest national minimum standard tech form:

Brake Fluid*: Sufficient brake fluid; premium fluid recommended. Brake fluid must be changed at least annually __ ** Date brake fluid was last changed: ____/____/20____

Local regions may require a brake system bleed prior to all events, this is just a minimum standard.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with bleeding your brakes before every event. It also allows you to take a look at your pads (inners can wear at a different rate sometimes) and suspension as well.

Agree on the Motive bleeder - just don't stick fluid it, use it only as a pressure source.

[Burg Boxster]

Originally Posted by MaxD

One point of clarification on PCA tech.

From the latest national minimum standard tech form:

Local regions may require a brake system bleed prior to all events, this is just a minimum standard.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with bleeding your brakes before every event. It also allows you to take a look at your pads (inners can wear at a different rate sometimes) and suspension as well.

Agree on the Motive bleeder - just don't stick fluid it, use it only as a pressure source.

Come on MaxD let's not get stuck in the weeds... name of the game is SAFETY. And one of the first question I ask any student during my 3min brief before getting in their car is about maintenance (who does and last time brakes bled - ESPECIALLY if a Mustang, Camaro or other domestic with notoriously undersized calipers, pads, rotors.)

Anywho... also from latest national PCA DE minimum standards:

Clothing and Helmet
All car occupants must wear a Snell approved helmet, which has the current available Snell rating or the one previous Snell rating. Other helmets are acceptable if they are approved for PCA Club Racing. Footwear must be enclosed, non-slip, with a relatively smooth sole. Hiking type deep lugged soles are not acceptable.

So all one needs is a snell approved helmet and closed toe shoes to participate in a DE. Everything else in between optional. Got it

Agree - use Motive bleeder only as pressure source - do not fill*.
(If you're a shop using everyday that's a different story but for avg DIY/track guy, use dry - much less mess and makes clean up a snap).

Good luck

[jmitro]

Originally Posted by MaxD

Agree on the Motive bleeder - just don't stick fluid it, use it only as a pressure source.

I don't understand this rationale. if you bleed enough, the fluid will run out and then you'll get air in the MC.
Crack open a new cannister of brake fluid and use half of it to bleed instead of the full liter.