How to remove charcoal canister and not get CEL?
 

After the issues with the fuel tank in my racing car, I have decided to simplify the breather system a bit and remove the charcoal canister etc - I have been given the understanding that this system is not required in a race car under FIA regulations, so see no reason to keep it.

This is how the tank looked after the 2011 season!!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1322023259.jpg

But I want to remove it and not have the CEL come on due to a number of sensors not connected or working as expected.

I can see that most of the system is located under the front right wheel arch, but how do I remove this all and still trick the system into not giving me a CEL every 10 seconds?

Anyone able to help me out with some advice and recommendations on this one???

Why not run with the CEL on? We gut/strip these things down and just check the codes every once in awhile. If something is really really wrong, it will flash the CEL.

You *should* have the ROW tune anyway which does away with our secondary 02's and air pump related junk.

The system can be fooled, but the expense is not worth it. Just run it with the CEL



B

I think this is what I will have to do, as I want to remove as much "extra" stuff as possible.

What is the ROW tune?

ROW= rest of world tune, no secondary 02's and no smog/air pump

In the USA we receive the LEV tune = Low emissions vehicle which includes the smog pump and secondary 02's and maybe a few other monitoring type sensors

In our race cars, we push the stock ROW tune to them, then manipulate that tune to make more power. This cleans everything up under the car and cleans up the engine compartment (less crap)

I'd have to look through the country list to see which tune your car received!

We remove everything...

DO NOT cap off the vent line from the tank :) ask me how I know :barf: Just trim it back and leave it behind the inner fenderwell liner.



B

Yes, my plan was to have the vent line go from the tank to wherever it runs and then leave it there - I am just having problems understanding which one it is under the front fender :rolleyes: Everything else I will remove...

Interesting! My car is a UK delivered car (it is even RHD), so I would be interested to know what tune it came with. I do know it has 4 O2's as I replaced them recently...

Would be keen to know what I can remove and what the process is - as this is a dedicated racing car I want to make it as light and fast as possible. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is more on the car - http://986forum.com/forums/show-tell-gallery/31844-hello-new-member.html

If it has 4 02's it's a LEV tune. The secondary 02's (the 02's that pass through the trunk floor) can be safety wired under the car in fresh air or the ROW tune can be pushed to it and remove them from the system (we save them for spares)

I'd be interested to see a picture of your engine compartment!!

Someday in the near future I'll buy a RHD dash and build one for the USA :)



B

Not sure if this applies, but is there any concern about the Boxster Spec rules regarding "no modification to the ECU"? I suppose it depends on your race class and sanctioning body.

I was on the original rules committee in 2005 that wrote the BoxsterSpec rules :)

I do this to my SCCA AutoX cars and SCCA Road race cars, or the GT class NASA cars :)

I'm the one who can "plugin" and see if you changed anything from the stock tune :)

On the spec cars *most* of us just safety wire the secondary 02's up and out of the way. It keeps the CEL from coming on for that function.

I believe EricO had removed his from the system when they paid to have the immobilizer removed. As someone pointed out in another post, it is possible to have all the excess removed.. but at 1k a pop? is it worth it? Just buy a generic code reader and check your codes before loading the car for the track!


B

Brad, yes the EricO situation is what prompted my question. Thanks for hanging out here and helping out with some of our questions. Your time and expertise is appreciated.

We do not have the Boxster Spec over here in Finland. I am driving in the Porsche Sports Cup, and the regulations are more or less a direct copy of the FIA regulations with some extra Porsche stuff included. So I am quite free to do modifications.

So, what is the advantage with the ROW tune, and how do I get it? Apart from the two O2 sensors, what else do I need to change?

Here is some current pictures from my engine...

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1323923493.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1323923513.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1323923542.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1323923568.jpg

I'm still asked by people nationwide (as I attend PCA club racing events) if I can put the BoxsterSpec.com site back up. It was your one stop site for Boxster racing. I sold it :)

Get rid of this and this lol

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1323923930.jpg


No need for the engine compartment fan or the smog pump (really surprised to see the smog pump~!!!)

Dont worry about the ROW tune, unless someone close to you has a PSTII, it will be tough to come by. Just run it!!

I'm **assuming** you had the car tuned for the IPD?

Run an extension on the breather tube for the power steering reservoir.. it will keep fluid off the top of the engine!! extend it all the way to the bottom of the tub!!

Then CLEAN THE ENGINE~!!!! LOL :)

Thank you for all the good info and help. Basically the car was delivered with the engine as stock. To save some money, I had only the minimum done to get the car approved by FIA. Figured other "improvements" could be done by me as and when I had the time and money.

I only got the car at the start of the 2011 season, so this winter is the first time I get to start looking at what I should do.

The IPD plenum was my first "upgrade", installed it last week. So "no" I have not done any tuning for the plenum - I hope to do that at some point with a DME upgrade...

I will remove the engine fan, and do some reading on how to remove the smog pump - is there an "idiots" how to on the forum I can read for this?

Where is the breather for the power steering, and how do I extend it?

Sorry for the stupid questions. I am new to the Boxster and this is the first time I have started to look at all this in detail :o

And, yes - cleaning the engine is on my list ;)


-- EDIT --

OK, did some searching, and if I understand correctly I need to get the following parts from Porsche to be able to remove the smog pump:
996 113 140 53
996 113 340 50
996 113 233 50
996 113 213 51

I also need to remove the intake system to get to the parts that have to be removed and replaced.

Does this sound correct, or have I managed to get the wrong information?

I have helped people with their Porsche's for 26 years now. I have slowed down over the last 3 years, but I won't stop. I'm just more selective on who I'm going to help. I'm excited that you are running this car oversees!! I'll help however I can!!

You need exactly 3 tools to remove those two items I pointed out.

1. 10mm 1/4 inch drive socket
2. Quarter inch drive ratchet
3. Spring clamp pliers (or regular pliers)

The fan and smog pump are held in with M6 screws and nuts (10mm head)

It *should* take you about 10min. to remove them both. Once you have the smog pump out of the way, the screws for the engine compartment fan will be visible. I believe there is 3 of them (on the fan and on the smog pump) that you need to remove.

If need be, I'll snap a few pics of the pieces removed from the car (I have a collection of them)

GO!!!

Yes. Correct on the parts list. The covers typically run $5-7 US and no, you do not need to remove the plenum. You have to be creative :)

This all sounds good Brad, I will order up the parts and start the removal as soon as they get in - probably after Christmas now, as the family must come first at this time in the year ;)

I will also look to remove all the fuel tank breather stuff at the same time.

I am flattered and honored that you are willing to help me out, I really appreciate it...

As for the car, I can also say that I have the first Boxster racing in Finland both within the Porsche Sports Cup and in general, so I feel a bit special on that front :cheers: That is another reason for why we do not have a Boxster Spec racing over here :)

I am not completely new to all this - I striped down and rebuilt my 1978 911SC including installing a 3.6 964 engine etc, but that was a 4 year slow learning curve for me. With the Boxster I feel like I am at the start again, so there will be some stupid questions along the way :o

Someone I consider a close friend lives in the Nederlands (just south of you.. lol) and is a diehard Porsche guy with a some track experience.

My customers come from all over the world. We have a 986S in the shop right now, the guy is from Sweden. We also have a 83 EuroSC from a customer in Germany.

Then I am very glad I found this forum and for your help.

We lived in Sweden from 2001 until the end of last year when my Finnish wife got home sick. I am originally From Norway, and spent some years living in the UK as well...

I have ordered the covers on the internet, and should have them delivered just after Christmas.

Ahh.. UK! Now I know why your English is "proper"!

My whole family is of Danish decent :)

Worst case scenario (my passport is up to date) I fly in to help out!! LOL



B

:cheers:

Do you speak any Danish then?

Ha ha.. NO :) Here in SoCal (I mean NorMex) we speak Spanish and English.

So, I removed the smog pump today. All that I have remaining is the rubber tube that disappears under the intake system.

I am wondering if I can just block this tube off for now, or do I have to get to the other end of it and do something???

No need to block it off. Just disconnect the plug going to the gray solenoid hanging on the side of the intake plenum. Leave the vacuum lines on the solenoid, but disconnect the electrical connector. This will keep the valve from opening and nothing will come out or go into that black rubber tube. It will come off soon!!

You can easily install those flat plates and remove everything by pulling your IPD piece back out :)


B

OK, you got me - what grey solenoid? Do you have a picture to help me out here? If the solenoid is disconnected, can I then also remove it?

Aha, I was going to pull the IPD to one side to see if I got access. Will do that then :)

Back onto the original subject - the charcoal canister. I am trying to identify where the breather line from the top of the tank goes. On the top of the fuel level sender there is 3 lines:
1. Fuel send
2. Fuel return
3. Breather - where is the other end of this line?

OK Brad, had some more good progress in the garage already today and now I am stuck and have some questions for you regarding the charcoal canister and the related connections :)

I will start by saying I was surprised as to how heavy the charcoal canister is - glad to have that removed from the car!

But now that the canister is gone, I have two lines I am not sure what to do with.

The one marked with the red arrow I have figured out to be the breather on the top of the fuel level sender stuck in the top of the tank and the one I want to keep unplugged to make sure the tank is venting properly.

But the other two I am not sure about. Where do these go and what do I do with them. Should they be left open or should they be blocked off.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1324456694.jpg

Thank you for your time and assistance :cheers:

I have been looking a bit closer on the diagrams for the breather system and the charcoal canister, and I am starting to think the two lines (green and blue arrow) should be connected together.

This is based on the fact that they both connect to the canister, and as such are linked together. By removing the canister, I obviously need to connect them directly to each other - anyone see any errors in my logic???

Hey Kroggers, I would be interested to know what you finally ended up doing with the pieces that remained. It's the last piece of unused/unneccessary weight left in my car.

i have a copy of an e-book about the bosch motronic system that shows what the various fuel lines do, but it is huge (85M) and won't email. if you have a place i can upload to then i could do that. otherwise, the three lines are (*i think*):

- fuel tank vent (you can vent to lower wheel well)
- atmospheric pressure (delete)
- sai feed (deletes when you remove sai)

i also thought about deleting the canister but, unless it is to be a dedicated track car, apparently your garage is going to stink of gas as your tank vents to atmosphere (ie, won't work for my street/track build).

This will help..



http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1329001110.jpg

Thank you both. Just what I needed. I think.

Here is a picture from my completed removal project. In the future, I will probably remove the two blocked vent lines, but kept them in there for now - keep it simple :)

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1329022481.jpg

I pulled everything out and just let the tank vent to atmosphere under the liner - you can see the vent line attached to the metal bracket.

As for smell in the garage - my 911 (1978 SC) also vents to atmosphere and I do not get any heavy petrol smell in the garage, but maybe it does not get hot enough over here for me to notice it?

I have not had a chance to test it yet, but I did start the engine and let it idle for some time and I did not get a CEL from having removed it all.

My car was not the same as the diagram that Brad posted. I Think the US cars have more stuff in the system than the cars over here. I for instance did not have item 5.

@The Radium King - I can host the book for download on the CoolCava Racing servers...

Kroggers, just thought you would want to know that one of the hoses you have blocked off is actually a vent hose that runs all the way to the rear of the car and exits under the the trunk floor just behind the bumper (maybe behind the foil heat liner in your case. In my case the heat sheild has been removed).

I found the vent pipe by blowing compressed air into both of hoses that are blanked in your case. One of them does not allow any air to move, the other does. With the one that does you will hear the air escaping at the rear. By your photo from earlier the vent pipe will be the green arrowed hose that previously attached to the top of the canister. By the diagram provided by Brad this is the hose that exits out the top of 6 and disappears to the top right of the picture. If you have not upset there original positioning it will be the lower of the two you have locked off.

I simply looped the hose from the tank (red arrow from above) with the one that exits the rear (green). The other is still blanked until I figure out how (or whether) to remove it. From the diagram we know it runs to the "tank vent valve" but I have no idea what that is or where it is

All of this was prompted by the fact that I was getting a smell of fuel in my car (which I had previously set up exactly as you have) whilst on the track. Hopefully this should fix it.

Laurie

The CEL is set and triggered like this.

http://www.paladinmicro.com/documents/EVAPMonitor.pdf

Combine this with the drawing and you will get someplace.

Cheers!

Thank you Laurie, that is good stuff to know. I will leave it as is for now, but if I do start to get a fuel smell during racing, then I will do as you have done as well...

That is interesting stuff Landrovered, I will read it in more detail. And see if the CEL does trigger whilst racing - once the season starts...

Sorry to dig this up again I know its an old thread.

I have just purchased a Boxster race car - I noticed it still had the fuel canister, smog pump and fan bay in place.

With the help of this thread I have removed the fuel canister.

I have decided to leave the bay fan in place as it will be useful - especially as the engine is enclosed. Ive put a switch on so that I can turn it on manually.

With the smog pump - I removed it. Purchased the 2 plates and gaskets I need - however looking at it I can't see how this can be done without removing the inlet manifold nearest the smog pump??

I removed both middle parts of the inlet manifold which gives good access under the other inlet manifold but with the inlet manifold nearest the pump there is too much stuff underneath it. And the bolts are on the bottom for the part I need to replace too. :eek:

The oil filler pipe is the main thing. If I could get that removed it might be possible. However reading up on this it has 2 bolts and one you need to remove the alternator to get to.

Anyway....basically can anyone give me any clues/tips to fit the small plates for smog pump removal.

Also - do the plates actually need to be fitted? Could you remove the smog pump and fit a small breather filter in the hose left sticking out the inlet manifold.

Brad Roberts is the guy to know the answer to this but I haven't seen him on the board lately- mine was done before the motor was put back in so I can't help you. If he doesn't respond in the next couple of days I'll email him and wake him up.

PS in my experience (and my car runs in the hottest of conditions) when these cars are used as race cars (ie they are never idling in traffic) they really don't need either the engine fan or for that matter the cooling fans. Weight is weight and if you don't need it is has no place on a race car.

Daverb,
I have pretty much followed the same course as you with the smog pump. Bought the cover plates, disassembled what I could to install them, then punted to a later time when I might be taking the intake manifold off. I've run with the pump hose blocked for some time. I get an intermittent CEL on starts when its cold (< 50F) and just clear it with the Durametric tool when I get around to it. Shouldn't apply to you since I assume you have the ROW tune.

I will concur with Laurie that you don't need any of the fans. We both live in much hotter climes than the UK (Texas and Utah) and as long as the car is moving you are fine. If you get stuck on grid for an extended period just shut it down.

Max