roll bars?
 

Are the bars on 987s roll bars? My dealer said so, but I know he's full of **************** (told me 800 miles for break-in)



They aren't metal or anything so I'm not sure.


I want to run a hpde event with nasa. Thanks :)




Oh yeah, how do I access my engine ????

yes they aren't just for show, take a knock at the horizontal section of tubing it's solid and anchored to the frame/chasis. It's used as the mounting point for harness belts. (see pic) Your windshield header is also designed to protect your head in a roll over.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...15_66_full.jpg

Hi,

Yes, the Roll Bars are made of high strength steel as is the windshield header and 'A' Pillars. These have sufficient strength to support the car's weight.

However, you could also be subject to the Broomstick Rule for Track, DE, and Auto-X events depending upon their requirements and your height when seated.

The Broomstick Rule states: Open cars must be equipped with an approved
roll bar. If the car is equipped with factory seat belts, a broom stick placed across
the top of the roll bar and the front roll hoop/ windshield frame shall be at least 2” above the driver’s helmet. If the car is equipped with current SFI approved legal 4, 5 or 6 point harness system the drivers helmet shall be at least below the level of the broomstick.

If you cannot pass this requirement, a Roll Bar Extension may be required, see: http://www.northstarmotorsports.com/products/sfID1/34/sfID2/35/manufacturerID/91/productID/1479 and http://www.bombaydigital.com/boxster/projects/bkrollbar/ Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

They can be considered a roll bar, in that they are structural material mounted to the frame. This differs from a style bar, Miata for example.

The true question is "Who's asking?"

Some tracks/events accept the Boxster, as is, for HPDE. Our local track is one example, I drove 4 DE's with no mods required, but these were not PCA events.

PCA and SCCA have emphasis on safety, and usually enforce the broomstick rule, that the top of your helmet must be 2" below the imaginary line from the top of the windshield frame to the top of the roll bar. I'm tall, so I flunked; couldn't drive with PCA.

The Brey Krause company makes a roll bar extension for the Boxster that PCA and SCCA accept for DE. It raises the height a couple of inches, still allows normal top operation, and is an easy bolt-on to install. Mine's for sale if you need one.

Finally, none of the above qualify as a roll bar in the racing definition, in that there is no lateral cross bracing and no rear bracing.

Check with the specific HPDE safety coordinator for the event you're interested in and go from there, no sense doing mods if they are not needed. Good luck and go for it, the Boxster is a blast to drive at the track!

great minds think alike - sorry Jim, I was drafting my response while you posted, no duplication intended.

Also, needed to plug my BK extension for sale... :)

Seriously??

Proper procedure is in your owners manual.

Access to the top of the engine is via the panel under the padded carpet of the rear deck shelf...

Hi,

No worries - great minds do think alike... ;)

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Thanks a lot guys. I was wondering about that also...If the roll bars weren't high enough.


I am a relatively tall guy, so I know I will get screwed here.



How much are you selling yours for, Limoncello?



Oh and I have ONE more question:


Is it true that if I buy racing harnesses or street harnesses that I will no longer need my side/front air bags? If so, would you recommend removing them? I could sure use the weight savings :)

Holy crap...700+ dollars for a HELMET.


Racing and track driving is NOT CHEAP!!!


I could MAKE a better helmet for less than that. Jesus!!!

The helmet is about the last thing to skimp on....inmho...and you can find quality helmets for less...

Bav Motorist, here's some mildly interesting info on the 987 rollbars:

The 987 roll-over bar is now higher and further back than on the 986. It is made of austenitic stainless steel, a special stainless steel alloy that offers maximum strength, and is manufactured using IHPF technology (internal high-pressure forming). This new manufacturing method and an optimised design have permitted a 30 % increase in strength.

These measures combined with the new seats and their higher headrests have permitted a further improvement in the already impressive passenger survival space of the previous model.

Estimate the present value of the $$ you expect your brain to make for you for the rest of your life, then add the present value of the non-$ experiences your brain is expected to process for your enjoyment. Compare that to the price of a helmet. If $700 is still too much, you obviously don't expect very much from your brain in the future.

And, yes, no one has ever claimed that track driving is cheap by any measure. Add to that the possibility of a total loss of your car, as insurance will not cover it. You definitely pay to play in that game.

Z.

If I'm not mistaken, insurance does cover DE (driver's ed) events, since you're not racing. I know of one person who spun and bent some sheet metal at a DE, and his insurance company fixed it.

Some insurance policies do and some don't cover HPDEs.


They also have some helmets for around 400. That's not as bad, but still. WTF.



So how about the street or racing harnesses? side and front air bags won't be needed anymore, right?

I'm checking with Brey Krause as to whether their extension will fit a 987. Will post what I find.

Helmets - Bell sells auto race helmets on their site with the necessary Snell SA 2005 rating for $389 and up. I got mine cheaper through one of the auto race equipment sites as a discontinued color at a special price. BE CAREFUL if you take that route, since the "specials" are not all rated helmets, a fact which may be hard to discern.

PCA and SCCA require the rating. Check with your local safety coordinator to see whether the older Snell SA 2000 is acceptable.

But I shopped carefully and got a good, rated helmet for about $250, if I recall.

Gloves and boots are nice, too. It's only money... :rolleyes:

This question has been raised many times in many forums. It's probably company and case dependent. Though the answer is not absolutely clear, I have concluded that it is more likely than not that it will NOT be covered. I just had a friend bang up his 968 on the last DE of the last season. I don't think he got anything from insurance.

One should check with their own ins company, though merely asking about that may raise some flags on the other side.

Z.

Hi,

There's no point in going overboard if you're just getting started in DE and Auto-X. A good $300 Bell Helmet will do you fine. A Bell Mag or 2SR will do you fine. I currently use the Bell M2, something like my 6th Bell Helmet.

But, if you get really interested, you find that good equipment actually helps your driving and your ETs. I used a borrowed Stand 21 helmet for a vintage race last fall (forgot some of the padding for my M2) and could not believe the difference that the lack of weight made. That's why I'm getting one. But, I do a couple DEs every year, about a dozen Auto-Xs and maybe 9-12 Vintage and Club races, so for me, it's a much more worthwhile investment. Also, be sure to get a Helmet Sock or Balaclava to keep the helmet fresh.

Check out the Bell Store for a variety of styles and prices: http://www.bellhelmets.com/index.cfm

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Good thought. Every insurance company and state is different.

I wouldn't hesistate to ask, however. If they say you're covered, then you're covered. If they say you're not, then at least you know. They can't raise your rates or drop you for just asking.

Lots of questions going on here, but here's my $.02 :)

1) Yes, the 986 and 987 have an integrated "roll bar". It's what makes the Boxster a very safe and stiff "open" car.

2) Track driving DOES cost money ( both car prep, driver prep, hotels, gas, lodging.. tires, brake pads/fluid etc) - It's not unrealistic to budget $500-?? for a "weekend" at the track)

3) Got a $10 head, get a $10 helment. Good helmets can be $300-$1000. Try one on. Try another. Make sure it fits snugly and with comfort. Too loose = no good. Too snug = headaches. Also make sure you can fit your glasses on (if you wear them) and maybe have room for an earpiece, as most instrutors use helmet to helmet communicators rather than screaming at you all day.

4a) As of yet, Brey Krause does NOT make an extension for the 987, only the 986 cars.

4b) Some tracks, like VIR, REQUIRE a Boxster to have a BK bar, even if you are well under the "broomstick" level.

4c) Some clubs/tracks waive the broomstick requirement IF you run with the optional hardtop in place

4d) Some don't even know what a broomstick test is ;)

5) Insurance... Case by case. Get a copy of your policies EXCLUSIONS first. It may already be spelled out. Yes DE is not racing, but with DE's popularity, it has come under fire from Ins. Co.s Oh, and even if the cover it the first time, it won't mean they won't drop you come renewal time ;)

6) harnesses - when used in PCA events, will require a seat MADE for harnesses. Your stock seat will not pass this test. So, add special seats if you want to run harnesses.

7) If you car is street registered, you will need to maintain all factory equipment to pass your state's inspection programs. Don't bother removing them.

Hope this helps!

well if you do damage ur car during a DE event, do u really have to tell the insurance company that you damaged it that way?

Hi,

Well, they may well ask for a Police Report depending upon the extent of the damage. Another point - Do you really want to commit Insurance Fraud for just a few thousand bucks? Get caught, and I bet you wish you hadn't...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

:D

1) Insurance fraud

2) How exactly, will you tell them what happened? They will investigate. Doesn't take much. You tell them a lie like it happened alone, late at night, on a wet road. Hmm... the road doesn't look damaged. Weather forcast said no rain, No trees damaged etc.. Where's the car now? a shop? how did it get there? Tow company? hmm lets pull their dispatch records...

3) It is often best, when DE'ing (and especially racing), to treat your car as "self insured" meaning, if you can't afford to personally write it off the damage, maybe its not the right car to be using.

It should also be noted that there ARE companies that offer DE and Race insurance. It may not "be cheap" and well, it may not be available in ALL states (in NJ, for instance, is very hard to find it)

Unless it's MAJOR damage, I would pay out of pocket. No sense in alarming your insurance company for little 500-2000 dollar damages, especially w/ my record.


I guess I just need to speak to an official in person. I read all these things on sites and it's overwhelming. Can I just go to a track official or does each organization dictate the rules?



I would remove my air bags but put them back in when needed. The car is a lease anyways. I can't do anything that isn't reversible, but I helped my friend remove his air bags off of his salvage title miata and put in new ones.



I guess the problem is I just hate spending $$ on myself. I always feel guilty.

Roll Bars are Real
 

The Boxster roll bars are absolutly real and offer rollover protection. They are made of super high strength austenitic steel which is a material that contains high percentages of certain elements like manganese and nickel. This is a very hard type of steel and is also non-magnetic.

$500-2000.. ok.. well. Lets see. Thats about what a couple of Rims and tires would cost.

While the track is immensely safe on the pavement, it doesn't take much to do damage to a car when you hit an Armco (guardrail), wall or dirt embankment. Should you go off front first and impact, well, expect to replace radiators, lines, headlights, fenders? Go off backwards and there goes the rear bumper cap, mufflers, maybe a jolt into the transmission and motor. Go fast enough and you will bend the "tub" or "frame" in simple terms. There are very few cheap "offs" when visiting tracks in the Northeast.

Why would you remove safety items like airbags? - they may be the very things that would save you.

Also. Most tracks work on a CASH basis. ON the spot. Yes, most PCA regions may cover some expense should you do damage to a track, but I believe Watkins Glen still requires you to pay, on the spot, for Armco replacement. Its not cheap. A couple hundred dollars per strip (3-4 strips per section, assuming you don't damage a post) Depending on the bonehead move, you could be out $2k right there. Track officials also keep a record of who does damage to their property. What event/club and WHO (ie you, me, john doe) who did the damage.

Now, with all that "gloom" said, I have been doing DE events with PCA and others since 1990 and have NEVER hit a wall. Spun 2-3 times. Left the pavement only twice (once planed, once a suprise). It is possible to do this without hurting your car, your body or your ego.

Re: roll bar extensions

"The roll bar extension (R-3010) does not fit the 987. When Porsche redesigned the new Boxster they increased the height of the roll bar. It now touches the inside of the top. This left no room for an extension. They also increased the diameter of the hoops."
Sam Charnegie (Brey Krause)

and our thanks to Sam for the quick response! :cheers:

Post #19 mentioned that that BK doesn't have a bar for the 987 (the post didn't say why so, thanks for the reasoning). You have to be quick around here Limoncello :cheers: