Cost of maintaining a modern Ferrari

[z12358]

Originally Posted by Dr. Kill

I understand what you are saying, but the other side of it is, when I have a long and stressful day at work at a client location, often the best part of my day is that commute in my Boxster. I am always looking for twisty backroads that, although may lengthen my trip to and from work, I can fit some “me” time in there during an otherwise potentially boring task of commuting. I can’t count how many nights I have shuffled out of an office building completely drained, only to have a big smile put on my face when I see my car.

When I first got the Box, I kept another car for DD purposes – nice car, an Acura CL Type S, but every day when I was driving it, I wished I was in the Porsche. So I wound up just selling it.

I hear you about the inner-city driving. I certainly don’t live in an idyllic country setting, but if I have to go to Manhattan, I take the train, but otherwise, Jersey, upstate New York, Long Island, I’m taking my car, and I am enjoying it – every day.

Glad we're in agreement. That was exactly my point. To the extent that the conditions allow for that big smile, the Box should be used as often as possible. Not everyone has the option to take the "twisty backroads" on their way from work.

Z.

[Chills]

Originally Posted by Rail26

I wonder if this is true? My Box is a daily driver and I don't know why other people don't use there car as a daily driver (except for the obvious fact of kids, etc). It gets great gas mileage, is comfortable, looks good and is fun to drive. I don't care about racking up the mileage because I bought the car to drive...not to sit in the garage trying to "protect" my investment (worst investment in the world).

My rule for any car I will buy is it has to be a daily driver.

I couldn't agree more. I bought my Boxster to drive it, not to sit and look at it in my garage. It is my only car and I drive it everyday. I'll soon have a back up car for the days when Chicago weather isn't at it's best, though.

I know many of the Pcar owners here in Naperville drive their's on a daily basis. At the train station I see a yellow late model Carrera and a black mid-90's 911 everyday in the parking lot.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by YellowPorscheMan2002

Interesting thread.

You guys should read a book called, "Collecting Ferrari" by Kieth Martin. It is basically a compilation of articles regarding the joys and perils of owning a Ferrari, all years and models.

After careful consideration (IMHO), anything older than say a 355 is a huge risk. For example, a Testarossa from the late 80's, where they have to actually pull the engine out to do a major service, that will cost $7500. That's insane. Plus from a performance perspective, you can get a used 911 Trubo from early 2000's that will eat the Testarossa alive in the performance department.

If I were buying a Ferrari, and some day I might, I want the performance AND the wow factor. I think I'll wait till the 360 modenas come down in price. They're still in the 120K to 160K range depending on mileage, etc.

Anyway, I'm glad I found this site and can engage in these types of discussions with car dudes

from the reading their forum they seem to be of the opine that there is a BIG leap in reliability from the 348/355 to the 360/430. Night and day it seems.

I can't help but think about how this falls in line with the results from their racing programs.

in the mid 90's when the 348's and 355 were sold, Ferrari racing really was nowhere. Both F1 and sports cars. As we crossed over to the new milenium when the 360's and now 430's were up for sale the motorsports division began dumping unprecedented levels of spending en route to winning all these titles in F1 and this year the 430's were the class of the field in sports cars, well at least sprint races. FIA GT is going to an all sprint race schedule next year with the exception of LeMans so it will be interesting in Porsche vs. Ferrari.
Porsche still have a big advantage in endurance racing due to bullet proof racing engines in races lasting more than two hours.

anyhoo it sounds like going with the mid 90's 355 will cost you allot more money to maintain than a second hand 360. The 430 is still outrageously expensive to get into.

[drburton]

Some of us have good reason not to drive the car daily, and it's not so the car can be a 'garage queen'

My boxster is our third car and I drop off the kids at school every morning then park at a train station. Kids don't fit in the boxster, and I don't really want to leave it at the train station. Not to mention the Touareg is a more comfortable ride for commuting purposes in traffic.

Also, to the point made earlier, since I'm not commuting in the car I really enjoy the moments I have to drive it - no destination, just a great way to unwind.

[denverpete]

Personally, I drive mine every day there isn't snow on the road. Sure there are days stuck in traffic when I wish I had an automatic, but most days I can't wait to jump in for my commute home. No twisties or anything - just enjoying the car. It's why I bought it. As to those who use it for weekends or occasions - good for you. That's probably why YOU bought it.

Now, as to the 355. I'm certainly no expert, but I've seen quoted 0-60 times of around 5.3 seconds. Nice car, and it's a Ferrari, but it'd get it's clocked cleaned by a 2006 Boxster S. So, in the end you'd just be paying for prestige. Now the 360 is a whole 'nother story....

[PSP]

It's not the cost of the car, it's the cost of the maintenance that freaks out most Ferrari newbies.

As stated, the 30,000 mile service on a 1984-91 Testarossa is an engine-out service that typically costs around $7,000 from an independent mechanic. The biggest problem is replacing the cam belts which are located on the front of the engine, but for almost everyone the "while I have the engine out" syndrome kicks in, so you end up rebuilding the water pump, clutch, etc. It's not unusual for the major service to surpass $10,000

BTW, the 30,000 mile service is actually 3 years / 30K miles - whichever comes first. A TR with 50,000 miles is considered a high mileage car.

....and 355 maintenance prices are similar.

[Dr. Kill]

Hmm, maybe the best bet is to go with a Panoz - there is nothing like the cost of maintaining Ford parts. You could do your maintenance at Pep Boys.

[IowaS]

Originally Posted by Dr. Kill

Hmm, maybe the best bet is to go with a Panoz - there is nothing like the cost of maintaining Ford parts. You could do your maintenance at Pep Boys.

Just buy a mustang and save yourself some coin...

[UroTrash]

GUYS!!!


PLEASE don't tell me you are actually considering buying one of these heaps?

If so you have obviously never read: "UroTrash's Guide to Not Buying a Ferrari"

Here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/velostrada/issues/200505/Analysis%20Paralysis.pdf


Or if that doesn't work, here, last article on the page:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/velostrada/issues/200505/contents.htm

[SD987]

I definitely think the F430 convertible is the bee's knees, but is anyone else as excited about the new Aston Martin V8 Vantage Roadster as I am? For 120-125k (anticipated price) I think it's much more realistic (for most at least) than a Ferrari that costs 2-3x as much.

[IowaS]

Originally Posted by SD987

I definitely think the F430 convertible is the bee's knees, but is anyone else as excited about the new Aston Martin V8 Vantage Roadster as I am? For 120-125k (anticipated price) I think it's much more realistic (for most at least) than a Ferrari that costs 2-3x as much.

In the looks department only it is too close to looking S2000ish or BMWish to me..just my opinion...

[z12358]

To me, there's no better looking car than Ferrari 430 and 360. Aston Martin comes after those. The bang/$ scale gets more non-linear and distorted the closer you get to the top of your personal list. Up there, it's all emotion and very little reason.

[YellowPorscheMan2002]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

from the reading their forum they seem to be of the opine that there is a BIG leap in reliability from the 348/355 to the 360/430. Night and day it seems.

I can't help but think about how this falls in line with the results from their racing programs.

in the mid 90's when the 348's and 355 were sold, Ferrari racing really was nowhere. Both F1 and sports cars. As we crossed over to the new milenium when the 360's and now 430's were up for sale the motorsports division began dumping unprecedented levels of spending en route to winning all these titles in F1 and this year the 430's were the class of the field in sports cars, well at least sprint races. FIA GT is going to an all sprint race schedule next year with the exception of LeMans so it will be interesting in Porsche vs. Ferrari.
Porsche still have a big advantage in endurance racing due to bullet proof racing engines in races lasting more than two hours.

anyhoo it sounds like going with the mid 90's 355 will cost you allot more money to maintain than a second hand 360. The 430 is still outrageously expensive to get into.

You make an interesting point by aligning Ferrari's more recent success in racing programs with the more reasonable maintenance and reliability of newer models, 360 Modena and beyond. I have a friend at work who knows allot more about cars than I do, that said something very similar. He pointed out that, " It's only been very recently that Ferarri got their act together again." He was pointing to the Formula 1 success with Schumacher, of course, and the fact that only the newer Ferrari's give you supercar performance with the supercar price (My example again of the Testarossa comes to mind, as does the example of the Tom Selleck 308 that does 0-60 in like 7 seconds; that's a true piece of garbage in my opinion. That being said, this gentleman is such a car nut that his stock E55 AMG wasn't fast enough, so he did a chip, an exhaust, and some other mods that cost him 10's of thousans and pushed the car over 600 HP.

[Perfectlap]

The "road back" for Ferrari is more than a decade long, I recall an interview with Luca Montemozolo(Sp?) who is retiring as the Ferrari chief and possibly pursuing politics. Luca said that when he first started spear heading the revival of the company in the early 90's he noticed that the quality control department(the guys that fixed the assembly line errors) at the Ferrari factory was almost a big at the production area itself! I think he said they brought in the Japanese like the Porsche dudes did and quickly identified the weak spots. No doubt this thinking carried over to the motorsports teams resulting in some of the near bullet proof cars they have competed with since about 2000-2001. Now Renault seems to be doing similar. But Ferrari really stands alone in the amounts of money spend on racing. Nearly half of all their 05 REVENUES not earnings, went into those two little F1 cars, half a BILLION dollars. I can't think of another car builder that puts out this type of committment. Ford pulled the plug on many of Jaguar racing teams because they spent more trying to catch up with Luca then they did in all of their global motorsports combined. Better stick to NASCAR they figured. Cheap thrills for lots of sponsor dollars, but no big improvement in the road cars like Ferrari.

anyhoo... Who would have ever thought that the French and Italians would be showing the way to Japanese and Brits.
THe 2007 FIA GT races are going to be big for Porsche this season. I don't think they can afford to get drilled again in Europe and get spanked by the Z06's here in the U.S.
Racing cred is important if you expect to sell sports cars with a long term view.
Otherwise you're just selling heavy, very expensive pretty GT's.

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

This whole thing only convinces me that a 2nd hand 911 Turbo really is an amazing bargain. You can park that thing next to any Ferrari (well maybe not the Enzo) and no one would laugh at you. And at the track no one is going to laugh at you lap times either.

These Porsche dudes in Germany may be real arrogant SOB's but they know what they are doing and have the numbers to back it up.

________________
according to the Porsche website the 911s need only be serviced at intervals of 20k. Isnt that a hell of a lot less expensive than the Ferraris?

[Rail26]

Originally Posted by SD987

I definitely think the F430 convertible is the bee's knees, but is anyone else as excited about the new Aston Martin V8 Vantage Roadster as I am? For 120-125k (anticipated price) I think it's much more realistic (for most at least) than a Ferrari that costs 2-3x as much.

Bro, I am counting down the days until I see the first used ones roll into the showroom. Aston Martin IS my dream car.

[orange260z]

Originally Posted by Dr. Kill

I understand what you are saying, but the other side of it is, when I have a long and stressful day at work at a client location, often the best part of my day is that commute in my Boxster. I am always looking for twisty backroads that, although may lengthen my trip to and from work, I can fit some “me” time in there during an otherwise potentially boring task of commuting. I can’t count how many nights I have shuffled out of an office building completely drained, only to have a big smile put on my face when I see my car.

When I first got the Box, I kept another car for DD purposes – nice car, an Acura CL Type S, but every day when I was driving it, I wished I was in the Porsche. So I wound up just selling it.

I hear you on this. I bought my '01 Box with 11K miles on it this past summer, and wanted a Tip particularly so that it didn't become a weekend car for me (I have arthritis in my knees). Although I kept my other car (a pristine '01 IS300) out all summer, I can count on my two hands the number of times I used it. This coming summer, I will put the IS away and use the Box as a DD.

It's difficult sometimes to accept the wear and tear on it - it's Lapis Blue and shows scratches easily, and the interior tends to get a little beat if you are getting in and out regularly - but at least I am "getting my money's worth" and enjoyment out of the car!!!

[Franco]

I would be surprised that people able of owning a FERRARI are concerned about how much their oil change is going to cost them, that's more of a BOXSTER owner dilemma. That explains some comments here

Jealousy invites misery so if u can't afford a Ferrari go get a Ford or some derivative of that and join a Fix Or Repair Daily Forum

Happy New Year To All U Guys and Your Families

[YellowPorscheMan2002]

Originally Posted by Franco

I would be surprised that people able of owning a FERRARI are concerned about how much their oil change is going to cost them, that's more of a BOXSTER owner dilemma. That explains some comments here

Jealousy invites misery so if u can't afford a Ferrari go get a Ford or some derivative of that and join a Fix Or Repair Daily Forum

Happy New Year To All U Guys and Your Families

Sir,

I think you have missed the point of much of the dialogue. Just because someone can "afford" a Ferrari (afford of course is a relative term), doesn't mean they should be happy with spending thousands of dollars on services, that are a high percentage of the overall cost of the car. It also doesn't mean they should go into buying a Ferrari uneducated, that is, thinking it is a highly reliable car. Clearly, some cars are, but many are not, especially cars from the 70's and 80's.

I guess what I'm trying to say is jealousy really has nothing to do with some of the analytic comments made here. Ferraris are great cars on many levels, but frankly I'm glad I became educated on their pros and cons and never bought one. Maybe some day

Have a good one.

[David N.]

Not sure you can compare a new Boxster to a used 355. More than just the daily driver use the Boxster can get, there's a serious power deficiency that the Boxster will always have due to Porsche's market goals. Seems like it's always going to be the autocross favorite over a real performance car because of it.

BTW, I happened by a PCar specialist in Santa Monica called Foreign Sport. Along with fixing my CV boots (and doing a darn good job of it too), I noted they had a whole collection of Ferrari 355s and a 360 in the shop. Common malfunction? Electrical system gremlins. I guess wiring is something Ferrari's limited production run has a hard time fully bulletproofing.

-David