track newb suspension question...

[wwjd]

I'm not a mechanic at all. I can not adjust this myself.

I am starting to do track days, and I saw and heard the words negative camber? I hope I have that right... guessing that is the tilt of the wheels to match corning better... ?? sound right?

anyway, is there a good compromise of of doing that where it is fine on the street too? I tend to push it on the street, and rarely make long trips with it --- and I expect to burn through tires every year or so anyway...

are these special setups something I should worry about?

I should also say I don't plan to GROW a lot in track days, I just do them for my own fun. Not going to get a trailer, or 2nd set of tires, or racing suit, or try to imporve laptimes, it's just for fun.

Thanks for any feedback

[frelanhardware]

Hey wwjd,

Spot on about negative camber! Tilts the tires in for better grip during cornering. For a fun-first track day setup, you can definitely find a happy medium that works on the street too.

Somewhere around -2 degrees in the front is a good starting point. It'll help with tire wear on track without being too crazy for daily driving. You might notice a little uneven wear on the street tires, but nothing too dramatic.

These setups aren't super complicated. Most shops can dial it in for you. Just be sure to mention you want a balance between track and street use.

Sounds like you have a great attitude for track days! Focus on having fun and learning the car. Enjoy!

[JayG]

Its a very slippery slope, Track time is addicting.

986's are camber challenged, you can't get much negative front camber without some suspension changes. Without things like adjustable control arms, camberplates or lowering, you won't get much more than about -.75. Basically, a stock 986 sucks for front camber. The factory sets up the cars for understeer as its safer for most drivers.

Do a search on the forum, you will find lots of good (and sometimes bad) info YMMV

A well setup 986 is amazing to drive

[husker boxster]

I have GT3 control arms on the front of my 08 Cayman S Sport and front camber set at -2.3 and rear at -2.0 with stock setup. I initially had -2.5 on the front but that wore out my front tires way too fast. At -2.3, I can wear out the fronts and rears about the same time - approx 15K mi. Usually you buy two rear sets for every 1 set of fronts.

Since you are just beginning to do track days, here's what I'd suggest:

Have a race alignment done with your stock components. JayG says it won't amount to much and he should know. I haven't had a 986 for 16 yrs. But for your situation, even -.75 will help and may be enough to save your tires at the track and on the street.

But that's where I'd quit at car mods. If you're just starting out, your car is going to be way more capable than you are. Focus on making yourself better as a driver before making lots of changes to your car. Don't worry, you can spend as much $$$ on driver improvement as car mods.

First thing to do is buy a GoPro. It doesn't have to be the latest / greatest. You can prob buy a 2 or 3 generation old GP on fleabay for a cpl hundred and it'll do the job. Put it over your shoulder so you can see what you're doing as well as the track. You will be surprised by what you're actually doing vs what you THINK you're doing. I'm a visual learner and this was what I did to make huge improvements in my driving. Even now I still watch my vids to see where I can make improvements.

Consistently drive the proper lines thru EVERY corner. Many times a novice will have 1 or 2 corners that they totally blow almost every lap, even tho they've been taught the proper line. Work on getting those corners right and your lap tmes will drop substantially. While "perfection is unattainable" (Tin Cup ref), focus and concentrate on doing an entire session w/o any mistakes.

Work on being over to the edge of the track at turn in, not a car width or more from the edge. Then accelerate thru the apex all the way to track out. Will this make a big difference? Maybe a .10 faster, but if you have 10 corners and my math is correct, that would be a second a lap faster overall. That's substantial. By accelerating all the way to track out, you get that little bit extra speed vs cutting it off in the middle of the track. And as a wise driver who used to frequent this website told me once, "they put track out there, you might as well use it".

Are you monitoring tire pressures during the day? If not, you're loosing time as well as prematurely wearing out your tires. I wrote an article about how to find your ideal pressure. Pg 19.
https://www.gprpca.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/DerSkooner-07July2023-FINAL.pdf

Seat time is also important. Do more DEs. Just be sure when your on the track, you're doing the proper things, not enforcing bad habits.

Work on yourself before you start making lots of investments in your car. Right now the only money you should spend on your car are mods that make it last longer rather than go faster. If you focus on the items I listed above, you'll only spend $150 for an alignment and $200 for a GoPro. That $350 and the suggestions will take you a long way towards making you a better driver.

Here's a vid from my last DE. Notice the wild lines some of the drivers take.

[wwjd]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

I have GT3 control arms on the front of my 08 Cayman S Sport and front camber set at -2.3 and rear at -2.0 with stock setup. I initially had -2.5 on the front but that wore out my front tires way too fast. At -2.3, I can wear out the fronts and rears about the same time - approx 15K mi. Usually you buy two rear sets for every 1 set of fronts.

Since you are just beginning to do track days, here's what I'd suggest:

Have a race alignment done with your stock components. JayG says it won't amount to much and he should know. I haven't had a 986 for 16 yrs. But for your situation, even -.75 will help and may be enough to save your tires at the track and on the street.

But that's where I'd quit at car mods. If you're just starting out, your car is going to be way more capable than you are. Focus on making yourself better as a driver before making lots of changes to your car. Don't worry, you can spend as much $$$ on driver improvement as car mods.

First thing to do is buy a GoPro. It doesn't have to be the latest / greatest. You can prob buy a 2 or 3 generation old GP on fleabay for a cpl hundred and it'll do the job. Put it over your shoulder so you can see what you're doing as well as the track. You will be surprised by what you're actually doing vs what you THINK you're doing. I'm a visual learner and this was what I did to make huge improvements in my driving. Even now I still watch my vids to see where I can make improvements.

Consistently drive the proper lines thru EVERY corner. Many times a novice will have 1 or 2 corners that they totally blow almost every lap, even tho they've been taught the proper line. Work on getting those corners right and your lap tmes will drop substantially. While "perfection is unattainable" (Tin Cup ref), focus and concentrate on doing an entire session w/o any mistakes.

Work on being over to the edge of the track at turn in, not a car width or more from the edge. Then accelerate thru the apex all the way to track out. Will this make a big difference? Maybe a .10 faster, but if you have 10 corners and my math is correct, that would be a second a lap faster overall. That's substantial. By accelerating all the way to track out, you get that little bit extra speed vs cutting it off in the middle of the track. And as a wise driver who used to frequent this website told me once, "they put track out there, you might as well use it".

Are you monitoring tire pressures during the day? If not, you're loosing time as well as prematurely wearing out your tires. I wrote an article about how to find your ideal pressure. Pg 19.
https://www.gprpca.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/DerSkooner-07July2023-FINAL.pdf

Seat time is also important. Do more DEs. Just be sure when your on the track, you're doing the proper things, not enforcing bad habits.

Work on yourself before you start making lots of investments in your car. Right now the only money you should spend on your car are mods that make it last longer rather than go faster. If you focus on the items I listed above, you'll only spend $150 for an alignment and $200 for a GoPro. That $350 and the suggestions will take you a long way towards making you a better driver.

Here's a vid from my last DE. Notice the wild lines some of the drivers take.

Thanks for all the feedback in your posts, guys! MUCH MUCH appreciated.

Stupidly (I had my reasons), I put on Pilot Sport ALL SEASONS, assuming they'd do "OK" and most of my driving is NOT on the track. Welp, trading those in for CUP 2s. I've experienced track/street tires before and love a hard sidewall, and grip. But, on my cert day - first track day, I could feel their slop and knew I had to back to track/street.

Previous tires - Falken 615, P-zero, I never thought about neg camber, but wondered if it would help street and track. MAYBE I won't bother with camber if better tires make as much difference as I know they will. Just learning the options.

I bought solid suction phone mount for using Track Addict and Race Chrono. Also own a gopro, need to figure out where to stick that.

I did check psi before and after each session and have a decent handle on that - on those dam all seasons..

Followed the line the instuctor told us.... then did a ride along with a much better driver, and his line was better I felt. But yes I understand apex drive out, and rumble strip suggestion stuff.

Just can't wait to get the CUP2s on and hit track on REAL tires this time! Probably go back to Falken 615 next because the price is great, the stick crazy without needing track warm up like the cup 2 want. Oh, and they are better in rain too.