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Old 12-07-2006, 06:08 AM   #1
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Smile Is the Bloom off the Rose?

Porsche AG, which has posted several years of profit growth, expects an earnings decline in the current fiscal year compared with a year earlier due to expected flat operating profit and gains in the year-earlier period.

The luxury-auto maker said car sales rose 0.4% in the first four months of its fiscal year, ending July 31, but the Stuttgart, Germany, company said it expects little significant growth until it releases its new Panamera in 2009.


From today's news!
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:27 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Brucelee
Porsche AG ... said it expects little significant growth until it releases its new Panamera in 2009.

From today's news!
Probably just means they have reached the limit of their market penetration with the current models, so the area(s) of significant growth have to come from introducing models which compete in a different market segment.
Only so many people want a (Porsche) sports car, in other words.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:09 AM   #3
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It also doesnt help that a Euro cost $1.32, the exchange rate with their biggest consumer market must be hurting them just a bit.
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ronzi
Probably just means they have reached the limit of their market penetration with the current models, so the area(s) of significant growth have to come from introducing models which compete in a different market segment.
Only so many people want a (Porsche) sports car, in other words.
That could be quite true, but what does that say about the Cayman? Failure?
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:48 PM   #5
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That could be quite true, but what does that say about the Cayman? Failure?

I think many Caymans were "pre-sold" in 2005 for delivery in 2006. So what year does Porsche report the sale?? If they report the sale in 2005 it makes it more difficult to have a good year over year comparision in 2006.
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Old 12-07-2006, 03:53 PM   #6
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Based on what I have seen, Boxster/Cayman sales are flat from year to year.

Translation is that Porsche has likely traded Box customers for Cayman. I don't THINK that is what they had in mind.

However, since Porsche shares so little data, I don't know if we will ever know what is really going on.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:03 PM   #7
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All i can say is i'm surprised at how few Caymans and 987 Boxsters I see out here in San Diego. I thought they'd be everywhere by now.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:41 AM   #8
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Here in West LA, I've seen a grand total of -2- Caymans...ever. One dark blue one parked on Venice for a few nights, and a silver one that passed on Lincoln I remember mainly from seeing a glint on the shark gills. To be honest, I really don't see that many new 987s or 997s, plenty o' 996s tho..

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Old 12-08-2006, 06:58 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by eslai
All i can say is i'm surprised at how few Caymans and 987 Boxsters I see out here in San Diego. I thought they'd be everywhere by now.

I would agree with this. Subjectively, the "home of Porsche" has few new Boxsters and almost NO caymans, at least where I drive.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:02 AM   #10
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May the powers that be, be with them when they have to sell cars on "German engineering" or "customer service" instead of the prestigious badge these cars have on the hood...
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:08 PM   #11
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people with problems post disproportionately.

a message board is not a representative sample.

yet a bitterman host who posts with neither his own problems nor his own satisfaction can be a troll at the same time.

and for a long time now. (my point is not only about this post. think of the all too recent history).

i'm sorry for you, rich. really. healthy people just walk away when they feel there's nothing left.

enjoy your chevys or whatever.

and leave this (yes, "your") board be for people who are not, at the end of the day, hopelessly jaded. sheesh. a troll on your own board.


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Old 12-09-2006, 06:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhduxbury
people with problems post disproportionately.

a message board is not a representative sample.

yet a bitterman host who posts with neither his own problems nor his own satisfaction can be a troll at the same time.

and for a long time now. (my point is not only about this post. think of the all too recent history).

i'm sorry for you, rich. really. healthy people just walk away when they feel there's nothing left.

enjoy your chevys or whatever.

and leave this (yes, "your") board be for people who are not, at the end of the day, hopelessly jaded. sheesh. a troll on your own board.


Thanks for the insults and early in the morning at that!

I have no issue with my posts, which I try to make truthtful and accurate.

I have immense respect for the 986 and 987. I have owned numerous Boxsters and 911s. I think they are quite the car and have said so many times over.

Having said that, I don't worship at the PCNA altar and I DON"T think that ANY car or car make is above reprouch or improvement. Witness the RMS issue that simply will not go away.

I will continue to rag on Porsche managment when I think it appropriate. Hey, it is my sandbox.

If you don't care for a particular post, don't read it. If you think that our information is accurate, please correct us and participate.

For example, if you think our data on Cayman/Boxster sales is wrong, correct it. If you believe our conclusions about the data are wrong, say so, with respect.

However, the insults are not appreciated.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:56 AM   #13
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Brucelee:
"If you don't care for a particular post, don't read it. If you think that our information is accurate, please correct us and participate.

For example, if you think our data on Cayman/Boxster sales is wrong, correct it. If you believe our conclusions about the data are wrong, say so, with respect.

However, the insults are not appreciated."




I agree.

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Old 12-09-2006, 10:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eslai
That could be quite true, but what does that say about the Cayman? Failure?
That depends on what the expectations were when the car was introduced. I don't recall ever seeing any numbers from Porsche on how many they expected to sell, but they could be out there somewhere.

There were more than a few folks scratching their heads when the Cayman was intro'd, as to what the sam hill they were up to. Porsche's justification for the car was that it was/is the Porsche for the "sporting driver", whatever that is.

Some folks, me included, felt that it is Porsche's ace-in-the-hole if the 911 series becomes uncompetitive in big-time GT racing. In other words if hanging the lump off the back end of the car is ultimately too much of a drawback to be overcome.
Obviously this hasn't happened yet, but the Ferraris and even the Panoz are nipping at their heels, with what seems to me to be much less development time and money put into the cars. The new 997-based GT3s may put the planets back in their proper orbits ... but maybe not.

In any event, the Cayman was probably a cheap way to pick up a few bucks by sticking a tin top on an existing model, stuff in a bigger motor, and then charge extra for it. A cynical viewpoint, but Porsche has never been accused of leaving a dollar laying on the table when they could grab it.
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Old 12-09-2006, 12:48 PM   #15
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I really like the concept of the Cayman and for the most part, its execution. A fine driving car that looks pretty darn good.

If I were king of the world, the Cayman would:

Be called the Boxster. One could order a coupe version of the Boxster for LESS money than the ragtop, say $5k UNDER the existing price of the ragtop.

The ragtop would have gotten the engine upgrades identical to the coupe.

Both Boxster versions would have AT LEAST 300HP in their S versions.

Both Boxsters would have a bit richer array of standard features.

It is my belief that if the above were true, the COMBINED sales of the Boxster would be higher, although who knows for sure.

I doubt Porsche is unhappy with the Cayman, but likely unhappy with the Boxster. Frankly, if they are, I think they have themselves to blame.
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Old 12-09-2006, 03:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Brucelee
I doubt Porsche is unhappy with the Cayman, but likely unhappy with the Boxster. Frankly, if they are, I think they have themselves to blame.
I understand your point, Rich, but Porsche shouldn't be TOO unhappy with the Boxster. After all, it saved their bacon at a time when the 911 appeared to be wheezing it's last (again).
The Box and the Cayenne bankrolled the development of the upcoming Panamera, and enabled them to get what appears to be control of Volkswagen, a circumstance that probably has ol' Ferdy doing cartwheels in his grave.
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ronzi
I understand your point, Rich, but Porsche shouldn't be TOO unhappy with the Boxster. After all, it saved their bacon at a time when the 911 appeared to be wheezing it's last (again).
The Box and the Cayenne bankrolled the development of the upcoming Panamera, and enabled them to get what appears to be control of Volkswagen, a circumstance that probably has ol' Ferdy doing cartwheels in his grave.

You are totally correct. I was thinking about the Boxes more recent sales decline, which I don't think was inevitable. The Box has tons of sales life left IMHO IF Porsche wants to invest a bit of technology, packaging and marketing into it.

Given their past treatment of the 928 and 968, I would not bet money on that.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:09 PM   #18
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I saw a red 997 TT a couple days ago, and ive seen a couple 997's and 987's. Maybe its kansas city, but damn did that turbo make my skin crawl
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucelee
The Box has tons of sales life left IMHO IF Porsche wants to invest a bit of technology, packaging and marketing into it.

Given their past treatment of the 928 and 968, I would not bet money on that.
I think the Boxster has "steady" sales potential. There is a significant market for a quality, (moderately) high performance roadster in the 40 to 60 thousand dollar range.
Other mfrs. have taken a shot at the Box but none of them have thusfar been able to provide the package that Porsche has. A part of that package is, arguably, the little crest on the nose, but the bottom line is still that the Box is a damn good sports roadster. Porsche would be foolish to drop the Boxster and reignite the whining for an entry-level Porsche sports car.
It took them almost thirty years and two tries to finally hit it out of the park with the Box, so I think they'll hang on to it for a while.
Now if they can just do a little something to placate the natives about engine reliability, we'd all have a merry Christmas.
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