Just as I predicted, gas prices . . .

[Brucelee]

Oil and gas are commodities. Their prices will continue to rise and fall.

Energy prices increase every year in the winter here in the US.

Can you guess why? Dop you think it MIGHT be realted to demand?

Econ 101

[z12358]

Not claiming it's true, but it's conceivable that big players with an agenda can affect prices in a free-market. Big oil producing countries can time the supply of crude oil, while big oil corporations can time both the demand for crude oil and the supply of unleaded gas. Now imagine some hypothetical guy with some stakes in the elections calling some of his big oil friends (countries and corporations) and suggesting that a slightly arranged timing of increased supply (lower prices) would be very, very helpful before Nov 7. Tough to prove but quite conceivable. Crude is well below its Nov 7 level while Unleaded Gas is well above it, suggesting that the corporations (users of crude, producers of gas) would have done the heavy lifting on this one.

Z.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by z12358

Not claiming it's true, but it's conceivable that big players with an agenda can affect prices in a free-market. Big oil producing countries can time the supply of crude oil, while big oil corporations can time both the demand for crude oil and the supply of unleaded gas. Now imagine some hypothetical guy with some stakes in the elections calling some of his big oil friends (countries and corporations) and suggesting that a slightly arranged timing of increased supply (lower prices) would be very, very helpful before Nov 7. Tough to prove but quite conceivable. Crude is well below its Nov 7 level while Unleaded Gas is well above it, suggesting that the corporations (users of crude, producers of gas) would have done the heavy lifting on this one.

Z.

"Big Oil countries" try to raise prices all the time. That is there function, to maximize their profits, much as it is yours to maximize YOUR income.

Whether they are able to somehow escape the laws of supply and demand is in fact, another story all together. In fact, OPEC has been a case study in how oligopolies or cartels can consistenly fail to enforce their will on comsumers. In the long run, consumers have options, like, well, driving less for example.

The problem of course is that presently, there are plenty of other countries willing to sell the oil, rather than sit on it. This makes the OPEC guys furious.


Saying that something is "conceivable" is the sign of, well actually, nothing.

It is conceivable that I will learn to fly soon but not very likely.

However, belief is unlimited and boundless.

Believe what you will!

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

I'm kind off on both sides of the Fence on this issue.

With whatever degree of success, I believe that those with the Major Companies and those Producing Countries are (and have always been) trying to favorably (for them) manipulate the Market in whatever way(s) they can. I'm sure they have their successes, and also failures, but certainly there is some effect from their efforts. This is what I believe longislander1 and z12358 are asserting.

Likewise, Supply & Demand, and the exercizing of Free Will by the Consumer also has it's effect, which mainly counters or opposes the efforts of those listed above.

The actual price is most likely the Net effect of all this...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Perfectlap]

a once cent rise in the price of unleaded will result in BILLIONS of added revenue.
Consider the amount of jet fuel and car fuel consumed in a single day of air and road travel in a single 24 hour period in the United States. A two cent? three cent? 90 cent???

The price of crude is what it is. Its run by a cartel that manipulates supply when it can get its act together and they can all be on the same page.
The notion that similar manipulation of supply ends once the crude makes its way to the refineries is laughable. Despite more money being made by the industry than has ever been made not a single new refinery has gone up in a loooong time.

Now our trading partners the Canadians have untapped the 2nd largest reserves of crude (2nd only to the Saudis) and we'll see how things stay status quo. Predicition: Your gas aint getting any cheaper.

[Brucelee]

Despite more money being made by the industry than has ever been made not a single new refinery has gone up in a loooong time.

This issue has been beaten to death. The are some new refineries now in process but you can blame the greenies and their ilk for pastlack of new plant building . Soft costs and delays in construction have mounted as of course, NO ONE wants a refinery anywhere near where THEY live. The Greenies would rather have biofuel plants built and will oppose anything not on their agenda, prices be damned.

Moreover, the oil industry has consistently lagged the ROI for companies overall, so if they are such masters at generating returns, they are hiding it quite well.

[z12358]

Brucelee:
"Moreover, the oil industry has consistently lagged the ROI for companies overall, so if they are such masters at generating returns, they are hiding it quite well."

They should ask for some tax breaks, then.

Z.

[Steve Fine]

The Oil companies didn't need to open new refiniries, new technology has allowed them to refine much more product at existing refineries, they have actually been closing refineries down. No one wants to build new refinerys because nthat would leave hem with excess capacity. If demand exceeds supply, they make more money by raising prices rather than by building new plants for which the demand might dry up.

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Despite more money being made by the industry than has ever been made not a single new refinery has gone up in a loooong time.

This issue has been beaten to death. The are some new refineries now in process but you can blame the greenies and their ilk for pastlack of new plant building . Soft costs and delays in construction have mounted as of course, NO ONE wants a refinery anywhere near where THEY live. The Greenies would rather have biofuel plants built and will oppose anything not on their agenda, prices be damned.

Moreover, the oil industry has consistently lagged the ROI for companies overall, so if they are such masters at generating returns, they are hiding it quite well.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

"Big Oil countries" try to raise prices all the time. That is there function, to maximize their profits, much as it is yours to maximize YOUR income.

Whether they are able to somehow escape the laws of supply and demand is in fact, another story all together. In fact, OPEC has been a case study in how oligopolies or cartels can consistenly fail to enforce their will on comsumers. In the long run, consumers have options, like, well, driving less for example.

The problem of course is that presently, there are plenty of other countries willing to sell the oil, rather than sit on it. This makes the OPEC guys furious.


Saying that something is "conceivable" is the sign of, well actually, nothing.

It is conceivable that I will learn to fly soon but not very likely.

However, belief is unlimited and boundless.

Believe what you will!

Yes, I believe that the situation I described is conceivable. From what little I know of English and without resorting to a dictionary, 'conceivable' = 'characterized both with the motive and the means'. Both exist in abundance in this case.

With regards to your flying analogy, you're OK on the motivation part but fall flat (no pun intended) on the means -- unless you can offer a plausable way of supressing gravity. Hence, no, I don't believe that it is conceivable for you to learn to fly.

Z.