2006 Ruf Boxster 3.8S X51 Conversion

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by webster132

I'm sorry to burst any bubbles, but that's simply not the case. At least not for me. And not for any of my high-end buying car friends either. Value is a huge part my car buying process. Whether I'm buying a Boxster or a Lamborghini.

You just compare it to other options in the same league or segment. So no, I didn't consider a Miata when buying the Boxster, but I did consider an SLK. And I didn't consider a Corvette when getting the Lambo, but I did consider the Ferrari.

So if you, like me, like Porsches and like convertibles, but you want more performance than a stock S, you compare a Ruf Boxster to a C2S Cab and try to assign value to either option. What I'm sensing from the crowd here is that paying ~$100k for a convertible Porsche is a bad deal for them. I have absolutely no problem with that judgement, but it didn't feel all that relevant for this discussion.

Hi,

I'm not saying your wrong, but clearly my experience has been much different.

I know several extremely wealthy people. Not just well-to-do Doctors, Lawyers, Businessmen, and such (though I know several of them too), but people with generational wealth. Such as the Grandson of the founder of one of the leading pharmaceutical cos. (in your area actually). This guy only gets the interest on the interest of his Trust and that amounts to $33M/yr. He owns 18 classic Porsches, not just a 550 Spyder, but the 550 Spyder driven by Hermann in the '54 Mille Miglia and such. His thing isn't so much classic Porsches as much as it is significant classic Porsches - even more rare. He thinks nothing of paying more than he should for such cars.

Another friend and former business associate is a member of the Pritzker family, again from your neck of the woods. He owns $4.3B worth of the Pritzker wealth (Hyatt Hotels, TicketMaster, Royal Carribean Cruise Lines, the Marmon Group (8% of all Rail cars in the US) and more). Again, if something tickles his fancy, he just gets it, often paying more just because he has to have it. In several of his acquisitions, I fronted for him just to keep the price from skyrocketing because the seller would know a Pritzker was involved.

I would like to think that were I in their positions, I would be a little more value conscious, and I do know several others who are, such as my buddy who just bought a Ford GT. But, you never know...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[webster132]

I would like to think that were I in their positions, I would be a little more value conscious, and I do know several others who are, such as my buddy who just bought a Ford GT. But, you never know...

There's a pretty sizable audience of people who could spend $100k on a Porsche convertible, but who don't get $30M+/year doing nothing. I belong to the former, certainly not the latter.

In any case, I'm just speaking for me and my immediate circle of friends. And for me, it makes sense to compare a Ruf Boxster to a C2S Cab. And I'm still interested in any analysis on that split from someone who are not offended about the notion of a $100k Porsche convertible .

[Adam]

Nice pics Perfect. The 911 cab looks good with the top up, but it looks like a butt heavy bathtub with the top down.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by webster132

There's a pretty sizable audience of people who could spend $100k on a Porsche convertible, but who don't get $30M+/year doing nothing. I belong to the former, certainly not the latter.

In any case, I'm just speaking for me and my immediate circle of friends. And for me, it makes sense to compare a Ruf Boxster to a C2S Cab. And I'm still interested in any analysis on that split from someone who are not offended about the notion of a $100k Porsche convertible .

Hi,

Yes, I agree there's a broader market for $100k Porsches too. So far as this comparison, I think it depends on where you're coming from, what your expectations are.

The Ruf Boxster is invariably the better of the two cars. Better Base Chassis, Layout, Weight Distribution, Lighter. And it's motor will be Balanced and Blueprinted, something the C2S Cab will not. You would likely have to do some suspension work though if you wanted to extract all it had to give, but out of the Box I think it'd smartly outperform the C2S.

I don't think you'd have any more reliability issues with the RUF over the C2S, assuming they were both similarly driven and maintained. In fact, because the conversion gets so much individual attention from RUF, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually more reliable over the long run than the C2S.

As for the aesthetic factor, again I think the RUF Boxster wins, but that's personal taste. The 911 Cabs have always appeared mutated to me. Not surprising since it's an adapted, and not a dedicated, design. All the styling cues come from the Coupe and some may not translate well. But, many, many others love it's looks which is why it sells so well.

The C2S will have the greater Peacock Effect of the two among the masses. More people will erroneously recognize it as something more expensive and such than a Boxster is. Of course, those knowledgeable about RUF would know the difference and see it the other way around, but that's the minority.

On resale, I suspect the relative rarity of the RUF will weigh in it's favor, but to a much smaller market. The C2S would probably be easier to sell at it's BlueBook value just because it will have a broader audience. If you can wait for the Buyer, the RUF will hold it's value, but if you have to dump it in a hurry, you may have to discount below it's true worth.

Of course, these impressions are not very scientific, but I believe the reasoning is sound. Not an easy issue to decide...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[webster132]

Of course, these impressions are not very scientific, but I believe the reasoning is sound. Not an easy issue to decide...

All great points, Jim. And thanks for the analysis. I'll try to call Ruf tomorrow and see what else I can get out of them. I believe that part of the package is that they alter the suspension and even lowers it a tiny bit.

In any case, Chicago just took on Winter today. So I'm unlikely to pull the final trigger before March where I could actually drive the car. But I'm going to the West coast in February, so perhaps I can track the guy down that did get this conversion made and ask for a ride.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

and on looks I'm not entirely sold on the $100K Boxster version vs. A 997 Cab
p.s.
yes I do consider any six figure car that gets spanked by SEVERAL seconds at Laguna by a Corvette to be a robbery. Too heavy and not enough power for those Ferrari like prices.

IMHO, the Boxster looks MUCH better than the 997 Cab, and the Ruf Box is a much better value than the C2S Cab, again IMHO.

Name a convertible sports car (need not be just Porsche) that better combines everyday drivebility (two trunks!) with exotic car (mid-engine) performance, and good looks and price it against the $95k Ruf Box.

All arguments against $100k Boxster are based on the "drawing looks" and image argument. Personally I don't give a rat's a** about drawing looks and image.

And I do believe that a well maintained Ruf Box will be much more valuable then a C2S convertible 10-20yrs down the road. In general, I believe that the Boxster will become a classic, as the design has timeless elements to it, so the sooner they stop mass producing it, the better.

I agree that the stock 987S has plenty of power but more power is always better.

Z.

[Perfectlap]

sorry my main gripe against a $100K RUF Boxster is how paltry the performance increase relative to the money layed out above what you already payed to get into the Boxster to begin with. If Porsche said we offer Caymans and Boxster with GT3 and TT power for $100K I would't complain one bit. But that kind of dough for a RUF Boxster shouldn't just mean "sleeper" it should mean a whole other level of performance. 100 HP doens't buy you that (less than 100 if you opt for 3.4!) $40K should give you the privilge of having a Boxster that can take on all comers in the $100K landscape. Good luck with that 100 HP.

Its the same reason I didn't get on the wait list for the $50K Lotus Elise to have privilige of driving a Toyota MR2 engine.

For FORTY THOUSAND dollars extra you better do the following:

Put well north of 450 HP/torque, full coilover suspension, the lightest wheels that can be fathomed with the biggest brakes you can get mated with the equivalent HP demmands, custom sways, some carbon fiber parts on both the interior and exterior to reduce weight, enhanced cooling, the works and a built-in top notch lazer/radar detector

and make some serious styling enhancements, not just a trunk badge and big wheels. Personally, I don't care what the next guy thinks I like car design and if I'm paying you nearly two for one, you better give me some nice fixed racing seats, a nice alcantara or a one of kind steering wheel, some interior materials that are unique only to the RUF cars, an enhanced cluster, design magazine worth door pulls, shifter, e-brake, some tasteful but dramatically different exterior enhancements the kind that set a GT3 RS apart from a 911.
What would RUF charge for all that? the price of an ENZO? LOL

[Bavarian Motorist]

I think this is a pretty good deal, considering you get a whole new engine, which is not cheap, obviously. Besides, isn't the main thing that divides a boxster from a 911 the engine, wheels, and maybe the suspension? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

What else does ruf offer for boxsters?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

I think this is a pretty good deal, considering you get a whole new engine, which is not cheap, obviously. Besides, isn't the main thing that divides a boxster from a 911 the engine, wheels, and maybe the suspension? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

What else does ruf offer for boxsters?

You are correct about the suspension, the Boxster has mcpherson struts all the way around compared to the 911's multilink rear setup.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by Adam

You are correct about the suspension, the Boxster has mcpherson struts all the way around compared to the 911's multilink rear setup.

So is it safe to say this is a boxster turned into a "911 roadster"? When you think about it like that, it justifies the price tag entirely.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

So is it safe to say this is a boxster turned into a "911 roadster"? When you think about it like that, it justifies the price tag entirely.

No, a boxster with a 911 engine is better than a 911.

[webster132]

Originally Posted by Adam

No, a boxster with a 911 engine is better than a 911.

That's how I'm seeing it. Better looks, better handling, better performance (same engine in a 300lbs lighter car).

I called the guy. The install takes 3 weeks and is done out of their Dallas office. He has done about 6-7 of them now. The $38,900 only covers the engine, if you want anything else (like new suspension), it's extra.

He's going to see if he can put me in contact with one of the owners that had this done. I'll share some more details when that's done.

Oh, and the difference between X51 and not is about two grand. So you get ~30hp more for about two grand, which he said all of the folks he had done it on opted to get.

I'll fill in with more details as they arrive.

[z12358]

webster132:
"I'll fill in with more details as they arrive."

Please do.
And, yes, the X51 option is definitely worth taking (for extra $2k) now that it comes with the engine straight from Porsche -- so no extra after-market labor to add it. The Excellence article said that it had costed much more not too long ago when it sold as an add-on kit from Porsche.

Does the $39k price already reflect the value of the "old" 987S engine that's replaced, or clients have to sell it on their own?

Does warranty stay intact after this conversion?

Thanks,
Z.

Originally Posted by z12358

webster132:
"I'll fill in with more details as they arrive."

Please do.
And, yes, the X51 option is definitely worth taking (for extra $2k) now that it comes with the engine straight from Porsche -- so no extra after-market labor to add it. The Excellence article said that it had costed much more not too long ago when it sold as an add-on kit from Porsche.

Does the $39k price already reflect the value of the "old" 987S engine that's replaced, or clients have to sell it on their own?

Does warranty stay intact after this conversion?

Thanks,
Z.

Z, I don't know about the warranty.

The price assumes that they keep the "old" engine.

[ljd-924se]

i'm surprised no one has mentioned the idea of just spending $25K on a 3.8 L swap from Farbacher Loles or FVD.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by ljd-924se

i'm surprised no one has mentioned the idea of just spending $25K on a 3.8 L swap from Farbacher Loles or FVD.

Didn't even know about that. I don't think I'll be considering any swaps on my 987S during warranty, but am curious as to what options are available. I wonder why Ruf charges $14k more for the same swap. Is it because the X51 engine costs more? Any ideas?

Actually, how much does a new 997 3.8L w/X51 engine cost? And shouldn't just any good Porsche mechanic shop be able to do the swap? There's a guy on Renntech that swaps engines into his 986 like I change shirts. All done in his garage, two days tops.

Z.

[webster132]

Originally Posted by z12358

Does warranty stay intact after this conversion?

Ruf gives 1 year warranty on the engine, the warranty for the rest of the car stays in place. The car can still be serviced by your local authorized Porsche dealer.

[webster132]

Originally Posted by z12358

Actually, how much does a new 997 3.8L w/X51 engine cost? And shouldn't just any good Porsche mechanic shop be able to do the swap? There's a guy on Renntech that swaps engines into his 986 like I change shirts. All done in his garage, two days tops.

From the article, it definitely doesn't sound like it just plops in:

Not that everything just fell into place. Ruf has installed the 3.6-liter 911 engine in earlier versions of the Boxster, but mating the 3.8-liter with the latest Boxster chassis involved a whole new set of wiring and plumbing issues to be solved. Hans Hoffman, Ruf’s technical guru in Dallas, advises anyone with a pre-2005 Boxster contemplating a 3.8S conversion that the main wiring buss for the ECU is completely different, and they are better off trading up to a later model Boxster–what Johnson did with his 2000 Boxster S.

Besides custom making the motor mounts, modifying the ECU and facing a “bit of a challenge” with the wiring harness, Hoffman said the the intake tubing of the 987S did not match up with the housing for the mass airflow sensor of the 997S engine. The engine ran okay, but—to be perfect—a new housing had to be designed.

Ruf also installed a new ceramic-coated exhaust system. The car passed its California emissions test.

[z12358]

Originally Posted by webster132

From the article, it definitely doesn't sound like it just plops in:

Yes, the devil is in the details, I suppose. On the warranty... 1yr Ruf warranty is not good enough. I'm definitely sticking with my stock set-up until my original warranty expires. By then, I could probably swap my 3.2L Box for a new 3.8L Box coming straight from Porsche and for less than it would cost to do an engine swap.

webster, how come there are two copies of quoted text in your messages?

[Paul]

As I've said before, it would be nice if Porsche offerred all of their motors as options in both the 997 and the 987. Boxster GT anyone?