Go Back   986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Post Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-19-2022, 06:26 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Coquitlam, BC Canada
Posts: 36
Excellent information. Thanks for sharing!

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
JDMsurprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2024, 05:58 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 96
So I used this thread to fix the howling in my new to me 2002 boxster. The previous owner put tape in the fuel vent. It didn’t come up during inspection but once I found it when I tried to fill up with gas I knew what was going on. The symptoms were a howl that was intermittent under a variety of conditions from idle to steady cruising at 3000 rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear.

My first step was to replaced the two valves F and G and tried to blow out line E. The result was it made that howling worse. With the engine running and howling, I disconnected E and could feel the vacuum pulsing and eventually the vacuum became constant. This made me think that possibly the solenoid valve on the manifold was sticking. I made sure to clean out the housing for F and G.

I then replaced the solenoid valve 15. This definitely quieted down the howling. It was softer, would still occur at 3000 rpm but would stop on a regular interval.

I figured since vacuum followed a path of least resistance that maybe there was too much vacuum in the evap system possibly due to a plug in the charcoal canister or maybe the filler neck valve was malfunctioning. So got those parts on order. I also ordered a CO2 drain gun because it has a nice rubber cone that seals against hose orifices for blowing them out.

Ok round 2 with F and G. I figured maybe I didn’t blow out E good enough the first time. I had hunted up the parts diagram for line E. It takes a very circuitous path through the car following the fuel line past the engine to the rear bumper. Lots of things could get stuck in that line, how I don’t know but certainly a spider nest or something could also plug the end. I used the drain gun to blow out line E. The first couple of shots, there was a fair amount of back pressure but with the 3rd shot there was a major reduction in back pressure. The fourth shot could be emptied into the line with little blowback. Ok maybe I cleared something out. Here is the diagram for the path taken by E.

https://einmaligparts.3dcartstores.com/Fuel-system-201-05_c_7839.html

Line E is item 6 in the diagram.

After a series of very lengthy test drives the howling seemed to be mostly gone. I did have an intermittent how for a second or two but that would be it. It would occur at speed typically 3000 rpm.

So the charcoal canister and filler neck arrived this week. I decided I would go ahead and install them because the car was pretty old and by this time I’d renewed almost the entire EVAP system. First part to go in was the charcoal canister. The old canister was the same part number as the new one but the old canister weighed about a pound more than the old one. Maybe it was partially plugged and reduced the overall effective capacity of the evap system which I presume operates on a fixed vacuum so the total volume being evacuated could be reduced leading to some excess vacuum through E. Ok also replaced the filler neck valve in this session. I realize up until this point I was doing pretty good science changing only one thing at a time but I’m sick of taking my car apart. The old filler neck looked quite work, the plastic was dull, but blowing through the holes it seemed to operate like the new one. I’ve read that there can be cracks in these valves. The gas cap puts strain on the filler neck and people sometimes crank down on their gas cap. Swapped out the filler neck. Oh and I blew out E a few more times since I had the whole fender liner out.

Went for a test drive. Nothing, no sound. I think I got it fixed. The evap system is quite a Rube Goldberg. I’ll point out that the system in the 987/997 is much simpler and no one complains of any howling in those models.

I know some people put tape over the vent. This does stop the howling. Surprisingly since the bowl is caused by a vacuum leak there is no check engine light. Since the leak occurs at a part of the system that isn’t monitored, the fresh air leaks through F and D instead of the correct fresh air source E. I think I had a couple of parts that had failed or were failing. I wonder if putting tape over the vent hole causes some longer term damage to the solenoid valves since their springs are being worked by the excess vacuum making the whole system leak more. This may eventually produce a check engine light but not for a while it seems.

I couldn’t live with the tape. I would forget to remove it when pumping gas and then gas would backup all over the filler. I also replaced the gas cap with a genuine Porsche gas cap. The old one was an aftermarket. Replacing the gas cap did nothing btw.

Biggest thing I learned is the drain gun is a handy tool for blowing out the lines because it allows you to use a fixed charge of co2 and feel the change in back pressure.
spinjockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2024, 06:01 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 96
So I used this thread to fix the howling in my new to me 2002 2.7 boxster. The previous owner put tape over the fuel vent hole. It didn’t come up during inspection but once I found it when I tried to fill up with gas I knew what had been going on. When I removed the tape, the symptoms were a howl that was intermittent under a variety of conditions from idle to steady cruising at 3000 rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear.

My first step was to replaced the two valves F and G and trie to blow out line E. The result was it made that howling worse. With the engine running and howling, I disconnected E and could feel the vacuum pulsing and eventually the vacuum would become constant. This made me think that possibly the solenoid valve under the manifold was sticking. I made sure to clean out the housing for F and G.

I then replaced the solenoid valve 15. This definitely quieted down the howling. It was softer, would still occur at 3000 rpm but would stop on a regular interval.

I figured since vacuum followed a path of least resistance that maybe there was too much vacuum in the EVAP system possibly due to a plug in the charcoal canister or maybe the filler neck valve was malfunctioning. So I got those parts on order. I also ordered a CO2 drain gun because it has a nice rubber cone that seals against hose orifices for blowing them out.

Ok round 2 with F and G. I figured maybe I didn’t blow out E good enough the first time. I had hunted up the parts diagram for line E. It takes a very circuitous path through the car following the fuel line past the engine to the rear bumper. Lots of things could get stuck in that line, how I don’t know but certainly a spider nest or something could also plug the end. I used the drain gun to blow out line E. The first couple of shots, there was a fair amount of back pressure but with the 3rd shot there was a major reduction in back pressure. The fourth shot could be emptied into the line with little blowback. Ok maybe I cleared something out. Here is the diagram for the path taken by E.

https://einmaligparts.3dcartstores.com/Fuel-system-201-05_c_7839.html



The path taken by line E is very long. It follows the same path as the fuel line but continues past the engine to the rear bumper. In my opinion it is unnecessarily long and could very well be the source of most people's issues. In the link line E is part 6. There are lots of places for something to obstruct line E although the most likely could be some kind of bug nest. Its not likely that line E gets crimped as it follows the same path as the fuel line - you would notice the fuel line getting pinched. The line is also the same material as fuel line and very durable.

I went for several test drives. The howl now was just a few seconds around 3000 rpms in 2nd and 3rd gear. My howl was much improved but not gone. The charcoal canister and filler neck valve arrived. I installed both of them today because I'm tired of tinkering with this problem. The old charcoal canister was the same part number as the new one except the old canister weighed about a pound more than the new one. Since vacuum follows a path of least resistance there is certainly the possibility that the vacuum capacity of the system was reduced so the excess vacuum had to go somewhere. The evap system doesn't really know how much vacuum is being drawn over the charcoal canister. It just operates with some regular frequency to purge the system based on feedback from the tank pressure sensor. I also replaced the filler neck valve in the same setting. I realized I was really clean about my science up to this point since i was limiting my changes to one at a time but I had the whole wheel well liner out and it was a pain to take out. The old filler neck was the same part number as the new one but the plastic was clearly old as the orange had been faded. The valve seemed to operate the same as the new one but that valve takes a lot of abuse from people cranking down the gas cap so there could also be a small crack which has been reported by others. I also blew E out again for good measure. Then put the car back together.

I took the car for a test drive. I heard nothing. The EVAP system on the 986/996 is a Rube Goldberg. The system on the 987/997 is much simpler and no one, no one complains about howling on those cars. I realized I basically rebuilt my EVAP system. But I think putting the tape over the vent hole isn't a good solution because I think the system will continue to degrade. I think the excess vacuum over time weakens the springs in the solenoid valves, coupled with the fact that a failing charcoal canister is possibly spewing debris into the system under the excess vacuum and plugging up the solenoid valve under the manifold.

I know lots of people tape over the hole. The reason I couldn't live with the tape is that I found it annoying to remove it when I pumped gas. I think anyone who has this problem should start by blowing out line E, then replace the solenoid valves on both ends of the EVAP system, and possibly replace the charcoal canister if there is absolutely no improvement. I don't know if the filler neck is a true source of any of the howling but it may make its own unique sounds when it fails just not through the filler vent hole. I also replaced the gas cap with a genuine Porsche unit. That did nothing.

The drain gun was a really good tool for this repair. It let me discharge a fixed amount of CO2 and monitor the back pressure by feel so I could tell if the line was cleared out. It also helps that CO2 is denser than air so a couple of discharges into the line gives a little more pushing power without blasting the line with excess compressed air.

Last edited by spinjockey; 04-20-2024 at 06:39 PM. Reason: part of post got eaten
spinjockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Post Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page