Crash last night - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

ohioboxster · 11-15-2006, 11:26 AM

Wow, its amazing what the human body can take. The plane last night is a 1977, the cockpit held up so well.

MNBoxster · 11-15-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohioboxster

Wow, its amazing what the human body can take. The plane last night is a 1977, the cockpit held up so well.

Hi,

It's really not that surprising. The FAA has much more stringent reliability requirements in it's certification process than any Auto Manufacturer would ever have to endure. Add to this the strict regular maintenance, repair, and inspection regimens (why I sold off my J3 - too expensive to keep) and you end up with pretty solid aircraft.

In terms of Life Safety, the coming thing is Ballistic Recovery Systems (commonly BRS). This is a Parachute which will deploy and allow the aircraft to decend slowly enough and land softly enough to pretty much insure safety for the occupants. It is currently available, certified by the FAA, for the Cessna 152, Cessna 172, Cessna 182, the Symphony SA-160, and the Cirrus line of light aircraft (where the system is actually integrated into the design of the airframe), the SRV, SR20, and SR22. A retrofit kit is available for a host of other aircraft (under 1600 lbs. GW) and Lightweights.

The goal of this system is the survival of the crew and passengers and not necessarily the prevention of damage to the airframe. Since it's invention in 1982, over 180 deployments have been successfully made without a single loss of life. The aircraft will usually sustain significant landing gear and/or airframe damage, but who cares? Any crash you can walk away from...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

RandallNeighbour · 11-15-2006, 11:53 AM

I hate little planes. Had a very scary experience in one when I was 7 years old and have no desire to set foot in one or fly one.

I do all my flying in jet propelled aircraft and in the Boxster, which doesn't get any altititude (thankfully).

Ohio, you had me scared for a minute there when I read your thread title, thinking you had crashed your car.

ohioboxster · 11-15-2006, 11:58 AM

Randall,
I didnt mean for it to come out like that.

Jim,
Actually there was a fatality involving the parachuted plane. I dont have the details but the fire guys were talking about it last night.

MNBoxster · 11-15-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohioboxster

...Jim,
Actually there was a fatality involving the parachuted plane. I dont have the details but the fire guys were talking about it last night.

Hi,

Actually, their information is incorrect. The BRS system does have an operating envelope.

In Level Flight, the minimum deployment altitude is 400' AGL, and in Non-Level Flight or Spin Recovery, the minimum deployment altitude is 920' AGL (the additional altitude required for the Drogue Chute to stabilize the aircraft prior to Main Chute deployment).

There have been several deployments below these minimum altitudes resulting in casualties or fatalities, such as on Final Approach or Take-Off, as well as other low altutude incidents.

The only disputed fatal crash took place after a Cirrus SR22 entered a flat spin at approximately 5,000' AGL. In this accident, currently in litigation, the role of the parachute is in dispute, and Cirrus believes that the attorneys representing the estate of the deceased pilots will argue that one or both of them tried in vain to deploy the chute.

In its report, the NTSB simply said that they did not deploy the chute, and cited as a probable cause of the fatalities, the failure to do so. Both Cirrus and BRS agree with the Board’s report, and they contend that they can positively determine whether an occupant has tried to deploy the chute, even when there has been a post-crash fire, as there was in this crash.

Other than this disputed incident, there have been no fatalities involving BRS deployment within it's nominal operating parameters.

Ironically, the retro-fitting of this system has met mixed reviews. Pilots do not like giving up control of the aircraft in an emergency, and once deployed, they're just along for the ride. Also, some express concerns over frivolous deployments (such as when a Pilot encounters choppy weather or loses control, not a good concern IMHO). While still some others cite the systems cost - approx. $20k (about the same as a good avionics upgrade, but cheap compared to one's life or totalling a plane).

But, all-in-all, the system has had a remarkable success rate...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Grizzly · 11-15-2006, 01:38 PM

So, how would this play out with my luck. I'm flying along in my new Cirrus, admiring the day, when suddenly, I experience a catastrophic RMS failure. The engine pukes its oil and is D.R.T. (dead right there). No worries. I've opted for the $20,000 parachute option, which deploys perfectly, and I glide peacefully back to Earth...right into the mouth of an active volcano...

jeffsquire · 11-15-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grizzly

So, how would this play out with my luck. I'm flying along in my new Cirrus, admiring the day, when suddenly, I experience a catastrophic RMS failure. The engine pukes its oil and is D.R.T. (dead right there). No worries. I've opted for the $20,000 parachute option, which deploys perfectly, and I glide peacefully back to Earth...right into the mouth of an active volcano...

_______________________________

Don't the Cirrus's really have parachutes? I thought this was one of their sales gimmicks (whether its a gimmick or not.)

lexuspilot · 11-15-2006, 02:24 PM

It is impossible to correctly guess the circumstances of the accident from the pictures. Knowing why the pilot balled it up on the taxiway would tell whether or not it was a good job.

For those that said so, I wouldn't worry about living around a small airport. If something happens pilots tend to try to avoid houses and other hard objects.

lexuspilot · 11-15-2006, 02:39 PM

Yes, all Cirrus have the parachute, BRS system. It is not a gimmick. Diamond also just announced the BRS system for their jet. The Cirrus was built around the BRS system, it was never added later as a necessity or a gimmick.

The BRS system on the Cirrus has created this huge paradox in aviation. I think someone should do their thesis on it. I have sold Cirrus for 4 years and instructed in them before that time. I have talked to thousands of people about the Cirrus and it's systems and I am always amazed at how this paradigm shift screws with peoples heads.

Check out our page:
http://www.cirrusdesign.com/aircraft/safety/

for video.
Note:
I am posting that commercial (our web page) link for educational purpose and it's relevance to the topic and the engineering interest of our forum members.