986 engine swap possibility

[kbod]

deleted post -

[porschefan76]

Hi kbod,

According to Wayne in his Projects book, page 38, Boxster 2001 (2.7 Liter and 3.2S):
(4th bullet)
"To install a Carrera 996/997 3.6/3.8 engine or a 2003-2008 Boxster/Cayman engine into one of these cars, you need to purchase a new 7.8 DME and then slightly modify the pinouts on the DME connector. In addition, you need to modify the Boxster engine wire harness, as the camshaft position sensors are located on the opposite ends of the engine than on the five-chain early motors. All of the systems on the car should work normally with one exception - the cruise control will not work properly with the later 7.8 DME unless you upgrade your ABS system as well (swap out the ABS controller and connector.)"

Hope that helps.

[78F350]

There's a discussion on Renntech.org in which "xr_guys" posted a link to a spreadsheet of the DME 7.2 and 7.8 for comparison. You probably need to register for the forums to access the spreadsheet, but here's the link to the discussion: https://www.renntech.org/topic/51783-boxster-dme-72-to-78-transplant/

[kbod]

Originally Posted by porschefan76

Hi kbod,

According to Wayne in his Projects book, page 38, Boxster 2001 (2.7 Liter and 3.2S):
(4th bullet)
"To install a Carrera 996/997 3.6/3.8 engine or a 2003-2008 Boxster/Cayman engine into one of these cars, you need to purchase a new 7.8 DME and then slightly modify the pinouts on the DME connector. In addition, you need to modify the Boxster engine wire harness, as the camshaft position sensors are located on the opposite ends of the engine than on the five-chain early motors. All of the systems on the car should work normally with one exception - the cruise control will not work properly with the later 7.8 DME unless you upgrade your ABS system as well (swap out the ABS controller and connector.)"

Hope that helps.

Do you know what is involved with a dme swap? Immobilizer system, harness, coding, etc… I live in Orange County California so getting the car to pass smog check is also a big deal, and I don’t want to break the bank too bad

[2ata]

Originally Posted by kbod

My 2001 Porsche Boxster has had its fair share of issues since I purchased it such as variocam actuator issues and missfires and Its been made aware my car needs the engine dropped to have its variocam actuator replaced, which brand new from porsche is 1400$ for the actuator alone. That is insane and since its a 2001 I would also want its ims bearing replaced which parts wise would cost right around 3,000$ which is the same price as a 987 engine.

my question is this, What would I need to do to get a 2006 porsche boxster base engine to work in my 2001 boxster base. I need it to work fully and be smog legal and functional, and I am sick of variocam issues and ims fears hence why I kinda like the idea of a new engine.

There aren't $3,000 in parts for just an IMS replacement.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by 2ata

There aren't $3,000 in parts for jsut an IMS replacement.

Ims bearing - 750$, Ims bearing tool - 250-300$, alsoooo my car has variocam timing issues where I keep getting a p1341 so a new variocam actuator/solenoid - 1400$ from porsche, is it 3,000$? no. Is it close? very. If i cant get a new engine to work I will definitely rebuild this one, well actually either way I will build this one as a spare engine but right now I want my boxster working cheap and the notion of having a newer engine with less miles and no more stupid variocam actuator issues and ims issues... oh yeah. If I can put in an 06 m97, I will.

My question is the level of what is involved in putting in the newer engine and how id have to re program my immobilizer and keys and a my vin to the new ecu since I have to pass smog which is very important to me to have the car running. Also my car is a tiptronic so thats also something Id have to deal with.

[2ata]

Originally Posted by kbod

Ims bearing - 750$, Ims bearing tool - 250-300$, alsoooo my car has variocam timing issues where I keep getting a p1341 so a new variocam actuator/solenoid - 1400$ from porsche, is it 3,000$? no. Is it close? very. If i cant get a new engine to work I will definitely rebuild this one, well actually either way I will build this one as a spare engine but right now I want my boxster working cheap and the notion of having a newer engine with less miles and no more stupid variocam actuator issues and ims issues... oh yeah. If I can put in an 06 m97, I will.

My question is the level of what is involved in putting in the newer engine and how id have to re program my immobilizer and keys and a my vin to the new ecu since I have to pass smog which is very important to me to have the car running. Also my car is a tiptronic so thats also something Id have to deal with.

My point being take a true look at this. The numbers in your original post puts a total at around 4400, now your numbers are about 2400. I don't think you would get a swap and having it running right and have it done quicker for less than or equal to 2400 to fix the existing.

I mean it's your car so do what you want.

[ike84]

It will be probably twice the cost to buy and swap an m97 along with the dme and immobilizer compared to just replacing the variocam acutators and doing an ims fix on your otherwise working motor, although you will recoup some of that difference is you sell your current motor. Jon's link is a good one, there is minimal rewiring but it must be done right.

keep in mind that the ims problem still persists on the m97 motor, and some of them (i don't remember the specifics) CANNOT BE FIXED because the case has to be split in order to access the bearing.

[moosport]

I'm hearing stories of cars not passing smog if ECU had aftermarket tune. Not sure how this affects factory code not matching chassis.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by ike84

It will be probably twice the cost to buy and swap an m97 along with the dme and immobilizer compared to just replacing the variocam acutators and doing an ims fix on your otherwise working motor, although you will recoup some of that difference is you sell your current motor. Jon's link is a good one, there is minimal rewiring but it must be done right.

keep in mind that the ims problem still persists on the m97 motor, and some of them (i don't remember the specifics) CANNOT BE FIXED because the case has to be split in order to access the bearing.

One of my friends said he can get me a 2006 boxster 2.7 engine for around 1700 bucks and for that money its seriously appealing since I am convinced that if i replace the 135 variocam actuator the 246 one will go out too, i mean after all by design the variocam actuators in these engines are literally meant to wear through the plastic wear pads and eventually lead to issues, that is absurd. My question is, what does it take for me to get the 2006 engine in, other than a new engine and a new dme coded to the car, what else is involved in getting that 987 motor in, will i need a new cluster? ignition? and will the engine actually work in there and not throw codes and prevent it from passing smog? those are important points for me, also I want to know what year and model boxster ecu to buy so i dont have to re-map it

[78F350]

Originally Posted by kbod

... My question is, what does it take for me to get the 2006 engine in, other than a new engine and a new dme coded to the car, what else is involved in getting that 987 motor in, will i need a new cluster? ignition? and will the engine actually work in there and not throw codes and prevent it from passing smog? those are important points for me, also I want to know what year and model boxster ecu to buy so i dont have to re-map it

If it is done properly it will not throw codes. I don't know you, but I get a sense from your questions and responses that in order to have it done properly you should take the car to a Porsche specific shop to have the swap done. I don't think that a detailed DIY guide exists for this. If you are not familiar with the wiring, fuel system, and electronics, the depth of answers you get here will likely be enough to get you in deep enough to fail and make a more expensive mess for a shop to sort out.

That's my advice for the day.

My advice for the week is; If you have nothing to lose but some time and insignificant cash, go for it. You will learn a lot. You might actually pull it off. If not, failure builds character.

[ike84]

Not to be a jerk, but Jon's point is a valid one. Your questions have already been answered.

With used engines, you get what you pay for. a $1700 2.7 m97 is unheard of, even for a 2.7. if someone offered that to me, i would question whether they were actually a friend, a thief, or just plain dumb.


That sounded cynical...but its the truth.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by ike84

Not to be a jerk, but Jon's point is a valid one. Your questions have already been answered.

With used engines, you get what you pay for. a $1700 2.7 m97 is unheard of, even for a 2.7. if someone offered that to me, i would question whether they were actually a friend, a thief, or just plain dumb.


That sounded cynical...but its the truth.

I know, its crazy but with a money back guarantee Ill take it tbh.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by 78F350

If it is done properly it will not throw codes. I don't know you, but I get a sense from your questions and responses that in order to have it done properly you should take the car to a Porsche specific shop to have the swap done. I don't think that a detailed DIY guide exists for this. If you are not familiar with the wiring, fuel system, and electronics, the depth of answers you get here will likely be enough to get you in deep enough to fail and make a more expensive mess for a shop to sort out.

That's my advice for the day.

My advice for the week is; If you have nothing to lose but some time and insignificant cash, go for it. You will learn a lot. You might actually pull it off. If not, failure builds character.

I am very familiar with engine swaps, I have done a couple bmw n54 engine swaps and upgraded turbo things. I am well versed in the world of bmw engine swaps just not Porsche's system, and I am not so much scared of getting the engine in, and there are diagrams on the wiring changes that would need to be done. My fear is more of the ecu management of the new engine. Dealing with immobilizer systems with dealer only codes and stupid systems like that are what gives me fear. But in the grand scheme of things It just seems like a trouble that would be kinda worth it in the long run so if its possible to do it and be smog legal, I might as well buy the new engine. I just need some advice on what ecu to buy from what year and model and what else I would need to do

[ike84]

I would start by calling your state highway dept and asking them. Ca just changed its emissions rules and I would want they're ok before the project before starts.

The dme and immobilizer are separate systems but must be able to talk to one another. The motor doesnt care about specifics from either of these except that the dme tells it what to do in a proper manner.

So, from that standpoint, you need the whole package you will need to find a dme that runs the same ME version that the motor is expecting (this can be found on Wikipedia), preferably with the correct tune already loaded unless you have a piwis to flash it. you need either the harness from that engine or to modify the pinout of your existing harness to jive with the new dme (which will be hard because the variocam plus system is completely different from variocam), and the immobilizer must come from the same generation along with it's keys.

It's actually not terribly difficult to get immobilizer codes, you just need to call a dealer with the Vin number and be nice to them.

Note that the dme switched to a can bus system in 01 or 02. I would verify your car is canbus before proceeding. If not, you're gonna have a bad time little dude...

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[JFP in PA]

I would be willing to bet there will be an issue with the different DME version. CA's newer system can detect modified DME programing files such as aftermarket flashes, which implies that they have to know what is supposed to be in the DME for any given model year vehicle. If that is in fact the case, the system should see a DME file that differs from the factory version, and reject the car as being modified.

An 01 car would have partial CAN Bus technology, the 06 car would make much wider use of CAN Bus to communicate with the DME and all the vehicle control modules as well as the instrument cluster.

[mikefocke]

Find a 911 engine from the same year. More displacement. Same controls, many have done that so help is available.

Plan for some updates before installation while sitting on the engine stand. AOS, IMS, injector tests, flushes, throttle body cleaning....

https://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/listsofsources

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I would be willing to bet there will be an issue with the different DME version. CA's newer system can detect modified DME programing files such as aftermarket flashes, which implies that they have to know what is supposed to be in the DME for any given model year vehicle. If that is in fact the case, the system should see a DME file that differs from the factory version, and reject the car as being modified.

An 01 car would have partial CAN Bus technology, the 06 car would make much wider use of CAN Bus to communicate with the DME and all the vehicle control modules as well as the instrument cluster.

JFP do you know if a ROW 996 program in a CA 2000 Boxster would be detected as modified ?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

JFP do you know if a ROW 996 program in a CA 2000 Boxster would be detected as modified ?

Based upon what I have heard/read, because the smoggers are looking at the DME information and how it compares to a reference file, I would think any RoW tune would be detected, simply because it does not match what they expect to see. All depends upon how accurate their references are, and how closely the DME must match.

As most modern engines are now "fly by wire", even something as small as adjusting engine idle speed for a customer complaining about the engine shaking at a stop light with the AC on requires modifying the computer's parameters. So, will raising the AC on idle speed 50 RPM fail a car? That is the big unknown.........

[ike84]

My understanding of the new rules is that they are looking for a match back to CARB approved programming. This includes factory setups as well as some aftermarket systems that have gained approval (Hondata is the only one I know that does a CARB approved by system). The reason I suggested calling the CHP is because this situation is a bit different, and rebuilds/custom builds are held to a unique set of rules.

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