Possible nightmare scenario - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Blue devil · 08-17-2021, 09:04 AM

Ok, where do I begin? Let’s start with my last post. Quite a few of you were very helpful identifying fixes for my rat chewed 986. After rewiring and shrink wrapping the easiest fixes, I brought my car to the most reputable Porsche workshop in Austin or repair some of the trickier codes. They are fantastic and have used them multiple times. While it was there, some moron picking up his wife’s Porsche backed into my rear quarter panel with his truck. Ok, no big deal, his insurance will pay for it, shouldn’t impact drivability or value too much. Got a ridiculous quote from his insurance company but that’s pretty standard knowing the shop will update it once they get into it. Yesterday, I was finally able to get it into the auto body shop. Another high-quality, Porsche certified shop. While inspecting the vehicle, the manager said, “ I just want to let you know that the insurance company may total the vehicle.” WTF? For cosmetic body work?
This is a 2002, less than 43k miles, babied with a new LN IMS kit, upgraded exhaust, slotted rotors and upgraded brakes, yada,yada. My question to the group is this; has anyone gone through this before? What are the best options? I hate to think that this car would be totaled out. I also hate the thought of the insurance company totaling it, fixing it and then reselling it. This is nuts. While

I am hoping this won’t be the case, it would be helpful to hear of any similar issues y’all may have had.
Thanks!
Pics were greater than 2MB so hoping these links work.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10icr7kwn5d2hP13O8L2FLb5yzOCdK-4k/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zWu6LKYCYZmrYlmCxJIqnXef-WN0_IAz/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iT0OtCkBZd7g7enruzc9Axk_FXMJURIb/view?usp=drivesdk

ike84 · 08-20-2021, 04:15 PM

Hard to say. If you're talking about a new panel from Porsche, they will likely total it. If I were you, I would let them! Then get on ebay, find a used quarter panel, and have a good body guy blend the color in to match. That would probably cost you 2 grand (total guess there).

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piper6909 · 08-20-2021, 05:22 PM

IRRC, 78F350 did a great job replacing the exact same panel and posted pics. I'm not saying it's a DIY job by any means, but if you're curious as to what's all involved you may want to look for his thread.

Regarding the insurance? You can let them total it and buy it back off them. But then it'll always have the "reconstructed" title once you repair it. Until then it'll be a salvage title and you cannot drive it.

You may ask if they're willing to pay you up to just below their "total" threshold, if that's even possible. But if you can manage that, then you'll still have a clean-titled car, and by the looks of the damage, you can still drive it around until you decide to repair it on your own dime.

I feel for you, man.

EDIT: I found his post:

This & That

JayG · 08-21-2021, 03:18 AM

How much are the repairs? From those pics, there is no way that damage should total the car. Paintless repair might even work, unless it's too wrinkled.

A quarter panel is only around $1500 from Porsche, maybe another $100 for labor and paint. I just had a bumper cover replaced on my 996, and it was around $600 for labor and painting in Austin

Who is the insurance value of your car is more that there repairs company?

You argue with them. Show them sale listings for true for similar cars from Cars.com, Autotrader and Craigslist.

Insurance companies don't care about IMS, upgraded exhaust, slotted rotors and upgraded brakes, yada,yada. They don't know how to value them

Where in Austin are you? I recently moved to Austin. PM me and lets chat

Newsguy · 08-21-2021, 05:44 AM

Something similar just happened to me. Now you have me worried they'll try the same stunt.

obthomas · 08-21-2021, 07:16 AM

Guys, the problem here is your cars are insured for actual cash value. This goes both ways when you car is damaged either by yourself or someone else. A 2002 boxster is worth about $10000 today. You can argue a few thousand one way or another but when the damage approaches you get totaled. Buy your car from the insurance company and fix it or buy another boxster and put all them valuable parts on it.

piper6909 · 08-21-2021, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayG

...

A quarter panel is only around $1500 from Porsche, maybe another $100 for labor and paint. ...

Replace a rear quarter for $100 labor and paint?? When? in 1940?

You do realize it's not a bolt-on item, right? I don't mean to be so rude, but even if it's a typo and you meant $1000, that's still way low for the labor involved.

mikefocke · 08-21-2021, 04:14 PM

Back 12 years or so I hit the rear end of a truck. Blinded by sun and hit glare ice. Not a bit of damage to his bumper. I got out of the car and said to myself...probably $3-4k. Took it to a high end shop. Driveable. They stopped estimating at $26k and insurance totaled the car. I took my upgrades off and substituted my stock parts before that was final.

Because of the potential for future liability, if your case is like mine the body shop would do this sort of stuff.

The car need to be inspected for how true all the suspension mounting points are. Laser measurement or compared to a jig that Porsche provides. Then all the rear suspension parts need to be inspected and possibly replaced. That wheel got hit and maybe pressed in displacing the whole suspension and potentially the engine/trans. Only then do you worry about the body work.

Did mine get parted out or fixed in some low labor market? I never checked.

78F350 · 08-21-2021, 05:56 PM

Find out if the insurance company is going to total it before worrying/making any big decisions. If they are paying to repair it, make sure there is no damage beyond the outer body panel. As Mike said, a good body shop will do that.

If they total it, you should have the choice of taking the total payout and surrendering the car or having the payout reduced by the residual value and keeping the car.

Surrendering the car should give you enough value to buy a comparable car. Look at what the adjuster is using for comparables and make sure that you agree they are equivalent and in your local market area.

Keeping the car and repairing it yourself can take a lot time and effort, but if you have an attachment to that particular car can be worthwhile. The resale value will be greatly reduced, but if you are not planning to sell it doesn't matter. You can probably find a 'bargain body shop' that will fix it reasonably well for what you get in the payout.

Sell it to me for the residual value after your settlement. I already have the parts car ready to cut the replacement panel from.

piper6909 · 08-21-2021, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 78F350

Sell it to me for the residual value after your settlement. I already have the parts car ready to cut the replacement panel from.

If he does sell it and it's a Tip, we're going to be in a bidding war, because I could use a back-up car in case my 2002 blows up

FDCampbell · 08-22-2021, 04:52 AM

First, many of our cars are now eligible for lower premium classic car insurance. If you have a "daily driver" and have decent MVR, underwriting is rather straightforward. Buying "agreed value" or guaranteed value is the only way to protect appreciating classic Porsche's and similar cars.

Blue Devil - hopefully you can get a friendly attorney to assist but here's what I would do solo:
1. Get all your documentation on upgrades, 3 body shop estimates, market re-sale values, perhaps with a supplement by the P-car shop that serviced your Boxster.
2. Pull articles on "appreciating original 986's" and links to YouTube videos as well.
3. Research Travis Co. small claims court procedures. The cases heard must be $10K or less. The Cayenne owner is liable without question.
4. Write and deliver a demand letter to the Cayenne owners with a 30 day time limit to respond. Express your openness to reach a settlement, but clearly indicate you intend to be made whole. Be sure to account for "loss of use" and "diminution of value". Again a friendly attorney can help draft the letter, but there are also online resources as well.
5. After you deliver the letter phone the Cayenne owners' insurance agent. See if he or she has influence with the insurance claims department. Lighten the mood by reminding the agent everyone should be glad it wasn't your GT2 that was hit that day!

Be professional, factual and courteous but resolute.

JayG · 08-22-2021, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obthomas

Guys, the problem here is your cars are insured for actual cash value. This goes both ways when you car is damaged either by yourself or someone else. A 2002 boxster is worth about $1000 today. You can argue a few thousand one way or another but when the damage approaches you get totaled. Buy your car from the insurance company and fix it or buy another boxster and put all them valuable parts on it.

$1000? REALLY!!! What have you been sniffing?

Its worth a lot more than that. Look at autotrader 2001 to 2003 Boxsters are listed at $12,500 to $19,999 and cars.com $12,500 to $26,995!!!

Based on those listings alone , damage to the rear quarter panel will not total the car

As Mike said it does need to be inspected for internal damage. Based on your description and the pics, IMHO that is very unlikely

My guess is that is going to be a $3k-$5k repair, far below total value

Blue devil · 08-22-2021, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayG

$1000? REALLY!!! What have you been sniffing?

Its worth a lot more than that. Look at autotrader 2001 to 2003 Boxsters are listed at $12,500 to $19,999 and cars.com $12,500 to $26,995!!!

Based on those listings alone , damage to the rear quarter panel will not total the car

As Mike said it does need to be inspected for internal damage. Based on your description and the pics, IMHO that is very unlikely

My guess is that is going to be a $3k-$5k repair, far below total value

I agree. I have yet to hear back from the shop. I know there is no structural damage other than the cosmetic body damage. The mechanic looked at it while it was still at their shop. Let’s hope it won’t be that much. I will keep everyone posted. If it’s totaled, I won’t g9 down without a fight. Great info. Thank you

Starter986 · 08-23-2021, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obthomas

A 2002 boxster is worth about $1000 today. You can argue a few thousand one way or another but when the damage approaches you get totaled.

$1,000? What a crock of ****************.

Rob175 · 08-23-2021, 05:48 AM

I assume the "$1,000" was a typo.....by at least another "zero".....(maybe $10,000+)

Frodo · 08-23-2021, 02:42 PM

That's totaled??
I don't know all the ins and outs of auto insurance (that's an understatement), but I had an 'incident' a few years ago...

Yeah, my bad. I was at a stop, tired of waiting, looking to turn right, trying to 'time' a spot in pretty heavy traffic (from the left) that I could speed into. HA! Found one! The space—it was narrow but acceptable—required some pretty decent acceleration on my part. Punched it, turned my head and...discovered the pickup in front of me had stopped, mere feet in front of me. The Boxster's prodigious braking capabilities did me no good with zippo time to react..

My insurance, USAA, first indicated there was a good chance it would be totaled. This is an '01 S which, at that time, had maybe 90K on the odometer. Like yours, there was zero structural/suspension damage. All 'cosmetic' which, unfortunately, included R/R of one pricey headlight. And that was at a time that used Boxsters were selling below where they are now.

Anyway, ultimately, insurance came through and it was nicely repaired. Still cranking along with 108K now.

It may be tougher dealing with a 3rd party insurance situation, I don't know. I'd been with USAA for decades, so that probably didn't hurt either. But, without the headlight involvement, your damage looks relatively slight compared with what I had. Give 'em hell, see what happens

Stl-986 · 08-23-2021, 03:18 PM

It really comes down to the other guys insurance. They want out of it as cheap as possible & legal. I have seen these cars get totaled out cause of a cut top. You always have the legal method as well. When it comes down to it, it is just $. Unless there are receipts for work that increase it's value from a paper/legal perspective, they go by book values & what it would cost to repair. They will absolutely low ball you, but that doesnt mean you have to take it. Do everything in writing and if they do a phone call, expect it to be recorded (not all states require consent for this). Dont provide any information other then yes/no type of questions, state it was their clients fault, etc. If you dont like their offer, get an estimate on the repair, and here is a hint, get an estimate from the Dealer not a 3rd party shop. You want the highest estimate possible. If they agree to repair, dont sign anything until the repair is completed and you are satisfied. Just cause their estimate is one thing doesn't mean the shop wont find more damage, which then they are on the hook for. This is typical of body repairs.

Of course, in your state you will have laws that protect you and they vary state to state. In the end if you really dont like what they are offering and you want your car fixed then talk to a lawyer, pay a small retainer and ask them to just send a letter that you are represented...and send it to the person AND the insurance company. This is usually enough to get them to pony up the money or the repair. Lawyer will know how to make it vague enough that if things aren't right you will be forced to go to court and if you do, you sue the person not the insurance company. When that happens the insurance company is required to provide their client with a lawyer. By this time the person who hit the car is yelling at the insurance company so they will want to settle before it gets further. with no human damage it's easier to just tell you to get it repaired and have the shop contact them for the bill, but add in things like time off work (keep written logs), rental car, etc.

Seal1968 · 08-24-2021, 02:25 AM

I agree with STL...my old A4 got rear-ended by a Silverado when my son was driving into town. Chain reaction, the car then hit the F150 with a large tow hitch he was following.

Banged up front and back...totaled. When my insurance rep called me, he made his first offer...I then told him to sharpen his pencil and listed what's been done to the car/maintenance/etc. He bumped the offer up immediately to my satisfaction.

Coincidentally I was planning to sell the car anyway, and the amount I got from insurance was equal to what I was planning to ask for the car...pretty lucky from that standpoint.

As stated, have your data ready to provide to the rep.

Good luck sir.

JayG · 08-24-2021, 05:03 AM

If you don't agree with what the other persons insurance is giving you, get your insurance company involved. They actually are there to protect you and work on your behalf. You can and should argue for the value you want if they low ball you.

You can also get an independent adjuster. Probably not needed, as you can get estimates from any body shop

Worst case is that you both have the same insurance company

obthomas · 08-24-2021, 06:00 AM

Sorry I miss-typed $10,000