2001 Boxster Camshaft issues

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Being old, single, retired, and a car nut I have time to try to help others.
I have always had an interest in things mechanical.
When the computer age came along it changed automobiles in many ways.
The DME/ECU and the OBDI and OBDII systems came along and I was lost.

What do you mean I can't adjust the timing Multiport fuel injection
Check engine light???? P-Codes????WTF?????
So I have had to try and learn what I could about those things.
It's car stuff right

Part of learning is trying to help others and getting their feedback on results.
Another part of learning is having people like you question or comment on my advice to others. Makes me go back and think about my approach.

Yes diagnosing via the net is hard.
I don't have the car before me.
I can't see it, touch it, feel it, smell it, hear it, taste it, talk to it, and it can't talk to me. So ya it's hard
Take care.

Words can not describe how grateful I am for all the help blue has given me thus far . honestly. Today I brought the car in and Replaced the factory stereo with a nice apple carplay unit (I know fix the engine then do upgrades...oopsie) and I also unplugged the mass air flow sensor and Wow it ran like extra crap. extra lumpy, extra rich, extra terrible. It's safe to say I don't think the car has a vacuum leak or a broken mass airflow sensor. My new camshaft position sensor came in but i'm waiting on my air oil separator to also come in since the cam position sensor is below the oil separator and mine is shot. Ill post a quick update when I get it replaced on if it fixes the car and if it doesn't fix the car what my deviations/actual angles are.

When I do the camshaft position sensor Ill also remove the lower camshaft rubber plug and check/repeat the timing process just incase.

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

Words can not describe how grateful I am for all the help blue has given me thus far . honestly. Today I brought the car in and Replaced the factory stereo with a nice apple carplay unit (I know fix the engine then do upgrades...oopsie) and I also unplugged the mass air flow sensor and Wow it ran like extra crap. extra lumpy, extra rich, extra terrible. It's safe to say I don't think the car has a vacuum leak or a broken mass airflow sensor. My new camshaft position sensor came in but i'm waiting on my air oil separator to also come in since the cam position sensor is below the oil separator and mine is shot. Ill post a quick update when I get it replaced on if it fixes the car and if it doesn't fix the car what my deviations/actual angles are.

When I do the camshaft position sensor Ill also remove the lower camshaft rubber plug and check/repeat the timing process just incase.

Glad to try and help just hope I have in some small way
Hoping the Cam position sensor is the issue
Keep us posted I always like to hear results.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Glad to try and help just hope I have in some small way
Hoping the Cam position sensor is the issue
Keep us posted I always like to hear results.

Ok, I think I made some progress today, I removed the AOS and replaced the cam position sensor but when putting the car back together I realized the skinny coffee straw looking vacuum hoses are all missing and just disconnected and screwed up. As to why there is a spiderweb of skinny fragile hoses in a porsche is beyond me. But I didn't put the car back together as this seems like a lead into why my car is running like crap. do you know what part number it is for all those really skinny vacuum hoses along with a routing diagram or maybe just a complete upgrade as my car clearly did have some sort of air injection leak. I am hoping I could replace those little hoses and then put on my new AOS, check the timing and if it all works.. well.. im not gonna get excited yet. Also I am going to have to replace a couple of the big vacuum hoses as they were brittle and snapped when i removed them,

edit! I just ordered a new crankcase breather hose and 4mm silicone hoses with a bunch of 3/16 fittings, once they come In I will replace all of the skinny little vacuum hoses, then put the car back together and check timing. If even after that It still runs bad i will report back on deviations etc, Im just wondering, if it was an air leak why would the car put a p1341 instead of... maybe an air leak code!!! darn it porsche you are driving me insane

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

Ok, I think I made some progress today, I removed the AOS and replaced the cam position sensor but when putting the car back together I realized the skinny coffee straw looking vacuum hoses are all missing and just disconnected and screwed up. As to why there is a spiderweb of skinny fragile hoses in a porsche is beyond me. But I didn't put the car back together as this seems like a lead into why my car is running like crap. do you know what part number it is for all those really skinny vacuum hoses along with a routing diagram or maybe just a complete upgrade as my car clearly did have some sort of air injection leak. I am hoping I could replace those little hoses and then put on my new AOS, check the timing and if it all works.. well.. im not gonna get excited yet. Also I am going to have to replace a couple of the big vacuum hoses as they were brittle and snapped when i removed them,

Do the hoses go to the SAI? Secondary air injection system?
Did you get any codes??
I think there is a diagram of the SAI here on the forum. Should be able to find it using search.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Do the hoses go to the SAI? Secondary air injection system?
Did you get any codes??
I think there is a diagram of the SAI here on the forum. Should be able to find it using search.

I found some diagrams, yes the hoses are for the secondary air injection system but there were no codes present other than the p1341... along with the generic missfire code after a while of driving

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

I found some diagrams, yes the hoses are for the secondary air injection system but there were no codes present other than the p1341... along with the generic missfire code after a while of driving

Well that is interesting I would have expected SAI related codes as well as the P1341 code.
If you have access will doing the other work you should check that entire SAI system over.
There is an Air change over valve, a electric vacuum switching valve, a non return valve, and a vacuum reservoir.
an issue with anyone of them and you have constant SAI related codes.
Keep us posted

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Well that is interesting I would have expected SAI related codes as well as the P1341 code.
If you have access will doing the other work you should check that entire SAI system over.
There is an Air change over valve, a electric vacuum switching valve, a non return valve, and a vacuum reservoir.
an issue with anyone of them and you have constant SAI related codes.
Keep us posted

Ok! im back. After waiting a long time for a new hose to be shipped out today I finished all the vaccum hoses and put the car back together. started it up and for the first 10 seconds it ran good but promply went back to not running good. at idle (when it was running lumpy) the camshaft 1 actual angle was 14.64 degrees, and the camshaft 2 angle was -7.83 degrees, when I revved the engine to 3k rpm it instantly changed to camshaft 1 being -11 degrees and camshaft bank 2 being 16.61 degrees. then I let off the gas and it went back to the origional 14 and -7.

So what does that leave me at?

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

Ok! im back. After waiting a long time for a new hose to be shipped out today I finished all the vaccum hoses and put the car back together. started it up and for the first 10 seconds it ran good but promply went back to not running good. at idle (when it was running lumpy) the camshaft 1 actual angle was 14.64 degrees, and the camshaft 2 angle was -7.83 degrees, when I revved the engine to 3k rpm it instantly changed to camshaft 1 being -11 degrees and camshaft bank 2 being 16.61 degrees. then I let off the gas and it went back to the origional 14 and -7.

So what does that leave me at?

Have you cleared the P1341 code?
Does it come back?
Has Camshaft Deviation on bank 1 changed from the previous 19 degrees????

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Have you cleared the P1341 code?
Does it come back?
Has Camshaft Deviation on bank 1 changed from the previous 19 degrees????

I cleared the codes, there are no codes currently. what happens is i clear the codes and drive the car with its lumpy idle, and it may or may not stall in drive at a red light or stop and when the idle drops really low the check engine light comes on, i bring it home and I get the p1341 code. As of yesterday when I ran the engine the camshaft deviations were at 0, maybe I need to drive it for those to register.

the car runs good at 1,000 rpm and above

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

I cleared the codes, there are no codes currently. what happens is i clear the codes and drive the car with its lumpy idle, and it may or may not stall in drive at a red light or stop and when the idle drops really low the check engine light comes on, i bring it home and I get the p1341 code. As of yesterday when I ran the engine the camshaft deviations were at 0, maybe I need to drive it for those to register.

the car runs good at 1,000 rpm and above

Take the car on a good 20-30 minute drive so everything is evenly warmed up then take the Camshaft deviation readings. Let us know what they are.
If the P1341 code does not come back then the timing issue is most likely resolved.
If you get the P1341 code again and Cam deviation is out of range then you still have a timing issue.
If the Camshaft deviations are good and no return of the P1341 code then you need to start looking at the lumpy idle issue.
Could be a MAF issue or vacuum leak issue. Looking at O2sensor signals and short and long term fuel trims are a means to tell if it is a vacuum leak or a bad MAF.

Go to Youtube and look up ScannerDanner find his videos on identifying Vacuum leaks using fuel trims. also his vids on MAF sensors. From those vids you will see how to use your Durametric to test to see if you have a vacuum leak or a bad MAF. Seeing him do it will be better then me trying to explain it.

There a number of various valves and hoses along with carbon canister and vacuum canister under vacuum in both the Secondary Air Injection system and the Evap system. From the way you describe your lumpy idle issue (as if the issue is being triggered after warmup). My guess is your problem is in the Evap system or Secondary Air Injection system. Vacuum leaks often don't happen in those systems until a valve is actuated then the vacuum leak occurs. (Sounds like your issue). Because of this Vacuum leaks in these systems can be hard to find because thy don't always show up with something like a smoke test. So you have to go over each system step by step. Part by part.

Hope this is of some help.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Take the car on a good 20-30 minute drive so everything is evenly warmed up then take the Camshaft deviation readings. Let us know what they are.
If the P1341 code does not come back then the timing issue is most likely resolved.
If you get the P1341 code again and Cam deviation is out of range then you still have a timing issue.
If the Camshaft deviations are good and no return of the P1341 code then you need to start looking at the lumpy idle issue.
Could be a MAF issue or vacuum leak issue. Looking at O2sensor signals and short and long term fuel trims are a means to tell if it is a vacuum leak or a bad MAF.

Go to Youtube and look up ScannerDanner find his videos on identifying Vacuum leaks using fuel trims. also his vids on MAF sensors. From those vids you will see how to use your Durametric to test to see if you have a vacuum leak or a bad MAF. Seeing him do it will be better then me trying to explain it.

There a number of various valves and hoses along with carbon canister and vacuum canister under vacuum in both the Secondary Air Injection system and the Evap system. From the way you describe your lumpy idle issue (as if the issue is being triggered after warmup). My guess is your problem is in the Evap system or Secondary Air Injection system. Vacuum leaks often don't happen in those systems until a valve is actuated then the vacuum leak occurs. (Sounds like your issue). Because of this Vacuum leaks in these systems can be hard to find because thy don't always show up with something like a smoke test. So you have to go over each system step by step. Part by part.

Hope this is of some help.

I just took the car on a drive, it still idles like absolute trash and stalls at some red lights I got the camshaft deviations, position 1 is 14.25 and position 2 is -6.19.

I don't know if this is related but ever since I got the car not only its fuel economy is absolutely horrendous, every time i put gas in it it doesn't want to start right after at the fuel station and I have to floor it while finessing it to get it to run, after its fine though.

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

I just took the car on a drive, it still idles like absolute trash and stalls at some red lights I got the camshaft deviations, position 1 is 14.25 and position 2 is -6.19.

I don't know if this is related but ever since I got the car not only its fuel economy is absolutely horrendous, every time i put gas in it it doesn't want to start right after at the fuel station and I have to floor it while finessing it to get it to run, after its fine though.

So the not starting when you refill points to an issue with the EVAP system.
Now that I have that information I believe your lumpy idle is also related to an issue with the EVAP system.

Not sure of the exact layout but there should be a main vacuum hose to the EVAP system connected to your intake.
Find that main hose then pinch it off and see if your lumpy idle changes. you can also hook up your Durametric and watch your fuel trims and O2 signals. If you have a vacuum leak in the EVAP system you will be showing positive fuel trims and low voltage from your O2 sensors. When you pinch off the hose your fuel trims will change as well as your O2 signals. O2 voltage will start to increase and then switch normally. fuel trims will slowly come down.
If there does prove to be an issue with the EVAP system start with the purge valve and work from there.

Your Camshaft deviation is also still an issue sorry to say.
My guess is that much deviation is directly related to the poor fuel economy.
fuel trims on bank 1 are probably always at near max positive no matter the RPM range.
Just a guess on my part concerning fuel economy.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

So the not starting when you refill points to an issue with the EVAP system.
Now that I have that information I believe your lumpy idle is also related to an issue with the EVAP system.

Not sure of the exact layout but there should be a main vacuum hose to the EVAP system connected to your intake.
Find that main hose then pinch it off and see if your lumpy idle changes. you can also hook up your Durametric and watch your fuel trims and O2 signals. If you have a vacuum leak in the EVAP system you will be showing positive fuel trims and low voltage from your O2 sensors. When you pinch off the hose your fuel trims will change as well as your O2 signals. O2 voltage will start to increase and then switch normally. fuel trims will slowly come down.
If there does prove to be an issue with the EVAP system start with the purge valve and work from there.

Your Camshaft deviation is also still an issue sorry to say.
My guess is that much deviation is directly related to the poor fuel economy.
fuel trims on bank 1 are probably always at near max positive no matter the RPM range.
Just a guess on my part concerning fuel economy.

welp. I tried to put a clamp on the evap hose and I tried clamping numerous hoses and the car didn't care. Runs lumpy and barely struggles to stay running, If i disconnected a vacuum line it just stalls. smells extremely rich upon startup, For the camshaft deviation ill probably just fiddle a teeny bit with the timing, not that hard. but for the lumpy terrible idle I have no idea whats causing it or how to fix it. is my camshaft deviation enough to cause this? I don't know. I assume the car not starting after putting fuel is its own isolated issue with the evap system. I am going to purchase a smoke kit to overall see if there are any big vacuum leaks that are causing this. I checked the codes, cylinder 1 2 and 3 missfire along with the p1341... how weird....

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

welp. I tried to put a clamp on the evap hose and I tried clamping numerous hoses and the car didn't care. Runs lumpy and barely struggles to stay running, If i disconnected a vacuum line it just stalls. smells extremely rich upon startup, For the camshaft deviation ill probably just fiddle a teeny bit with the timing, not that hard. but for the lumpy terrible idle I have no idea whats causing it or how to fix it. is my camshaft deviation enough to cause this? I don't know. I assume the car not starting after putting fuel is its own isolated issue with the evap system. I am going to purchase a smoke kit to overall see if there are any big vacuum leaks that are causing this. I checked the codes, cylinder 1 2 and 3 missfire along with the p1341... how weird....

Your lumpy idle is most likely caused by a combination of the Camshaft deviation range and an issue with the EVAP system.
The missfires are due to the Camshaft Deviation being so far out of spec.

As to the Camshaft Deviation I would try to fix that first. Seems like you are a tooth off or a link off in your set up.
Your actuators for the Variocam system seem to be working ok now as when you rev to 3000 RPM you get a change of 25 degrees of actual cam angle. So that is right on spec.
So it is a timing issue, not an actuator issue.
I would Concentrate on getting the Camshaft deviation correct on bank 1. because you have The Camshaft Deviation numbers to view that tell you if it is fixed or not.
Then the other issues will be easier to find and correct.

Yes the issue with not starting after refill is caused by a problem with the EVAP system. I believe your EVAP issue is also "part" of your lumpy idle issue.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Your lumpy idle is most likely caused by a combination of the Camshaft deviation range and an issue with the EVAP system.
The missfires are due to the Camshaft Deviation being so far out of spec.

As to the Camshaft Deviation I would try to fix that first. Seems like you are a tooth off or a link off in your set up.
Your actuators for the Variocam system seem to be working ok now as when you rev to 3000 RPM you get a change of 25 degrees of actual cam angle. So that is right on spec.
So it is a timing issue, not an actuator issue.
I would Concentrate on getting the Camshaft deviation correct on bank 1. because you have The Camshaft Deviation numbers to view that tell you if it is fixed or not.
Then the other issues will be easier to find and correct.

Yes the issue with not starting after refill is caused by a problem with the EVAP system. I believe your EVAP issue is also "part" of your lumpy idle issue.

this is going to sound stupid but I went and the ims locking tool fit really good on the notch in the cam so I dont really know how the timing could be that far off... nevertheless it clearly is, should i adjust the camshaft a little bit clockwise or counter clockwise based on my current deviations to correct it?

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

this is going to sound stupid but I went and the ims locking tool fit really good on the notch in the cam so I dont really know how the timing could be that far off... nevertheless it clearly is, should i adjust the camshaft a little bit clockwise or counter clockwise based on my current deviations to correct it?

How many chain links do you have between timing marks on the two camshafts?

Go to the thread titled " Vario cam issues" on post 48 on the second page you will see a picture of the cams. If you look close you will see the timing mark on each cam and you will be able to count six links between the timing marks.

Are you positive there are six links between cam timing marks?????

A link off is all I can think to be your issue as everything else seems ok.

If your tool just locks into one cam the only way you know the other cam is right is to have the proper number of chain links between them.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

How many chain links do you have between timing marks on the two camshafts?

Go to the thread titled " Vario cam issues" on post 48 on the second page you will see a picture of the cams. If you look close you will see the timing mark on each cam and you will be able to count six links between the timing marks.

Are you positive there are six links between cam timing marks?????

A link off is all I can think to be your issue as everything else seems ok.

If your tool just locks into one cam the only way you know the other cam is right is to have the proper number of chain links between them.

I specifically remember when I took apart the camshaft tensioner, I used white nail polish on the dimple on the gear and its corresponding chain link. when i put it back together It all lined up with my paint marks. I did notice that my ims locking took does have a bit of play even when it is "locked" which is why I want to just adjust my camshaft a tad, I just don't know if i should nudge it clock wise or counter clock wise, do my deviations say what direction it is off in?

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

I specifically remember when I took apart the camshaft tensioner, I used white nail polish on the dimple on the gear and its corresponding chain link. when i put it back together It all lined up with my paint marks. I did notice that my ims locking took does have a bit of play even when it is "locked" which is why I want to just adjust my camshaft a tad, I just don't know if i should nudge it clock wise or counter clock wise, do my deviations say what direction it is off in?

deviations are usually stated in positive or negative form.
So I would think advanced would be positive and retarded negative.

I just did a little reading on how the cam timing is set up on these engines.
I see where your going with the attempt to "adjust the cams, makes sense.
If your cams have the four bolt setup on the sprocket, timing could have "slipped there at some point.
You just have to figure out which direction to go.

Keep us posted on the results.

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

deviations are usually stated in positive or negative form.
So I would think advanced would be positive and retarded negative.

I just did a little reading on how the cam timing is set up on these engines.
I see where your going with the attempt to "adjust the cams, makes sense.
If your cams have the four bolt setup on the sprocket, timing could have "slipped there at some point.
You just have to figure out which direction to go.

Keep us posted on the results.

Went back and spent 5 hours adjusting the timing yet again. when i started the car it sounded really good but after 20 seconds... yep. back to bad. I took it on a drive and it settled in at 7.4 for deviation 1 and -6.5 for deviation 2, both variocam actuators are doing their job aswell at -.29 for bank 1 and .09 for bank 2 actual values at idle. the biggest thing is when i take it on a test drive if i hit the brakes hard when the car comes to a stop it dies, I have to slow down sooooo gently then the idle drops really low and shoots up to keep the car allive. checked the codes, same 123 missfire and p1341

wow this car really doesn't want to work :/

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

Went back and spent 5 hours adjusting the timing yet again. when i started the car it sounded really good but after 20 seconds... yep. back to bad. I took it on a drive and it settled in at 7.4 for deviation 1 and -6.5 for deviation 2, both variocam actuators are doing their job aswell at -.29 for bank 1 and .09 for bank 2 actual values at idle. the biggest thing is when i take it on a test drive if i hit the brakes hard when the car comes to a stop it dies, I have to slow down sooooo gently then the idle drops really low and shoots up to keep the car allive. checked the codes, same 123 missfire and p1341

wow this car really doesn't want to work :/

You have the cam deviation on bank 1 down interesting that it still throws the code and missfires.