Fascination With Air-Cooled Porsches

[maytag]

Interesting thread.
Here's an additional perspective:

In the '80's, I drove some of the newish models and was do disenchanted that it turned me off to Porsche for 3 decades. I've been a harsh critic of what Porsche thinks a good handling car feels like for a long time, based on those '70's and '80's air cooled Porsches. It seemed that Porsche wanted to simply continue to update their flawed design for all those years. Truly; you could walk me through a paddock and I wouldn't be able to tell a 70's 911 from a 90's 911, because Porsche was hell-bent on providing the same old P.O.S. to the world, and the masses just kept eating it up and raving about it.
Or so I thought.

Then I drove the 986 (a car I had dismissed along with everybody else), and couldn't quit giggling. I realized then that I was wrong, and needed to open my eyes a little bit. Since then, I've driven some fantastic Porsches, from Cayman GT4's to a GT3RS, and some other tasty things in between. Fantastic cars.

They still don't tick the box for me, emotionally. They don't feel particularly "special". They're very good at what they do, but there's little emotion involved in it.

And the air-cooled cars? Still terrible. Horrible, poor-performing buckets of "#metoo" for the academia-types (with patches on the elbows of their tweed blazers) who wouldn't know a good-performing car if it stood up and spoke Italian to them.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by maytag

Interesting thread.
Here's an additional perspective:

In the '80's, I drove some of the newish models and was do disenchanted that it turned me off to Porsche for 3 decades. I've been a harsh critic of what Porsche thinks a good handling car feels like for a long time, based on those '70's and '80's air cooled Porsches. It seemed that Porsche wanted to simply continue to update their flawed design for all those years. Truly; you could walk me through a paddock and I wouldn't be able to tell a 70's 911 from a 90's 911, because Porsche was hell-bent on providing the same old P.O.S. to the world, and the masses just kept eating it up and raving about it.
Or so I thought.

Then I drove the 986 (a car I had dismissed along with everybody else), and couldn't quit giggling. I realized then that I was wrong, and needed to open my eyes a little bit. Since then, I've driven some fantastic Porsches, from Cayman GT4's to a GT3RS, and some other tasty things in between. Fantastic cars.

They still don't tick the box for me, emotionally. They don't feel particularly "special". They're very good at what they do, but there's little emotion involved in it.

And the air-cooled cars? Still terrible. Horrible, poor-performing buckets of "#metoo" for the academia-types (with patches on the elbows of their tweed blazers) who wouldn't know a good-performing car if it stood up and spoke Italian to them.

Bravo, Maytag! Ever consider a writing career for Motor Trend or something? You know I don't always agree with you, but damn, you know how to make compelling, colorful arguments!

[911monty]

Originally Posted by maytag

Interesting thread.
Here's an additional perspective:

In the '80's, I drove some of the newish models and was do disenchanted that it turned me off to Porsche for 3 decades. I've been a harsh critic of what Porsche thinks a good handling car feels like for a long time, based on those '70's and '80's air cooled Porsches. It seemed that Porsche wanted to simply continue to update their flawed design for all those years. Truly; you could walk me through a paddock and I wouldn't be able to tell a 70's 911 from a 90's 911, because Porsche was hell-bent on providing the same old P.O.S. to the world, and the masses just kept eating it up and raving about it.
Or so I thought.

Then I drove the 986 (a car I had dismissed along with everybody else), and couldn't quit giggling. I realized then that I was wrong, and needed to open my eyes a little bit. Since then, I've driven some fantastic Porsches, from Cayman GT4's to a GT3RS, and some other tasty things in between. Fantastic cars.

They still don't tick the box for me, emotionally. They don't feel particularly "special". They're very good at what they do, but there's little emotion involved in it.

And the air-cooled cars? Still terrible. Horrible, poor-performing buckets of "#metoo" for the academia-types (with patches on the elbows of their tweed blazers) who wouldn't know a good-performing car if it stood up and spoke Italian to them.

Umm I call BS. I know personal perception is colored by life experience, but the 80s ? really? The most depressing decade of automotive junk ever?

What were you comparing Porsche to that you felt was so superior? American iron with the smog choked engines that were lucky to survive to 100k miles? The corvette finally in 85 put a control arm that wasn't a direct descendant of a 56 Olds. Jaguar had the glorious XJS that was like living in California, you didn't know when the electric was going to fail. Italian cars were so finicky if you drove them twice in a month you had to check them into a shop for rehab?

SO please to not sound like the snooty patched sleeve professor and believe me I do like your new car but the last jab of speaking Italian was a bit much.

While Porsche had some troubles ( catalytic converters under the cylinders, magnesium cases that spit out studs like sunflower seed shells and with a climate control system that still sucked) At least they were reliable and with bodies now being galvanize zinc dipped they were built for the long haul. AND if you really had a death wish or just enjoyed being terrified you could buy a turbo and turn both sides of the apex into white knuckle thrills.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Umm I call BS. I know personal perception is colored by life experience, but the 80s ? really? The most depressing decade of automotive junk ever?

What were you comparing Porsche to that you felt was so superior? American iron with the smog choked engines that were lucky to survive to 100k miles? The corvette finally in 85 put a control arm that wasn't a direct descendant of a 56 Olds. Jaguar had the glorious XJS that was like living in California, you didn't know when the electric was going to fail. Italian cars were so finicky if you drove them twice in a month you had to check them into a shop for rehab?

SO please to not sound like the snooty patched sleeve professor and believe me I do like your new car but the last jab of speaking Italian was a bit much.

While Porsche had some troubles ( catalytic converters under the cylinders, magnesium cases that spit out studs like sunflower seed shells and with a climate control system that still sucked) At least they were reliable and with bodies now being galvanize zinc dipped they were built for the long haul. AND if you really had a death wish or just enjoyed being terrified you could buy a turbo and turn both sides of the apex into white knuckle thrills.

Ah Monty; such the contrarian! I mean, calling "BS" on my opinion!?!?

I make no claims about reliability of other cars of the era, but my comments were about how the car handled, not how reliable or practical it was. What cars of the era handled better? In my own experience; nearly all of them. At the edge, the 911 was prone to pushing the front horribly (understeer plagues them all). You take a car that understeers to the racetrack and you can learn to deal with it. But you take it to a canyon and it deals with you. That's how people die. Mind you we aren't talking about mild understeer solved with better tires; no we're talking about your "white-knuckle" corner-entry being paired with recitations of prayers to deity that won't be heard because the Gods speak Italian, not German. In 1985 I was driving a diminutive '75 Fiat 124 Sport (know to most as the Spider). Twin overhead cam, High-Revving Lampredi motor with actual dual-twin-throat Webers on it. It sounded glorious at full honk, and the car went where you pointed it. It may've left something to the 911 in a straight line, but on a canyon road, the Fiat was far superior to the supposedly "Exotic" Porsche. Funny and true: the 911 was frequently mistaken for my mother's singer-sewing-machine as we listened for its sound from farther up the road where we'd pull over and wait for Darin and the "german exotic" to catch up with us.

But set aside my own proclivities, and look at other cars of the era. Yes, they were choked by smog equipment, but on the domestic-front, the fox-bodied mustang GT or 4-cylinder SVO would hand the Porsche 911 its hat in nearly any contest. On the more "exotic" side, which is the arena the Porsche was regularly lumped-into, (if for no other reason than its price-tag), Sure, there were some horrible cars (though with more character) like the Maserati BiTurbo, but the Ferrari Mondial coupe was far superior in every way. Remember: in the '90's, people were comparing the 911 to things like the Lamborghini Jalpa, and the Lotus Esprit; both far superior cars to the 911. Hell, even the ugly Aston Martin Zagato was a better choice than the german scone. And heaven forbid we start talking Nissan Skyline..... or even the 'Z-cars. Both better road-course cars than the 911, costing less too. (admittedly the Skyline cost more if you were to import one to the US).

Taste is subjective, of course, and thank heavens for that; if everyone loved the same cars I do, then I probably wouldn't be able to afford them, haha. But I was disenfranchised from every motor-journalist who got all mushy-mouthed about another Porsche which looked just like the last: Like a half-used bar of dial soap.

Merkur XR4ti, Buick GN, Mazda RX7, BMW M3, Lotus Elan, Toyota Supra, BMW Z1, VW MKII GTI, IROC-Z/TransAm, I mean, the list of cars from the '80's that excite me more than the air-cooled 911's, and which I could argue to be better cars ALL. DAY. LONG. literally goes on and on and on. And on and on and on.

[911monty]

HAHA I knew that'd get you. One thing I found and quickly realized was that with the rear engine it would take an average person a year if ever to learn how to drive the car. Instruction was highly recommended.

Understeer? The 911 was and is known for it's lift throttle OVERSTEER. Panic in a turn and that tail is swap happy, but A slight lift off throttle to kick the tail out and back on the gas and it was point and shoot. The turbo added an extra dimension to that.

And yes I drove most of the cars on your list and while they had a certain appeal handle better? Fiat 124? Not in same league. Sorry.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by 911monty

HAHA I knew that'd get you. One thing I found and quickly realized was that with the rear engine it would take an average person a year if ever to learn how to drive the car. Instruction was highly recommended.



Understeer? The 911 was and is known for it's lift throttle OVERSTEER. Panic in a turn and that tail is swap happy, but A slight lift off throttle to kick the tail out and back on the gas and it was point and shoot. The turbo added an extra dimension to that.



And yes I drove most of the cars on your list and while they had a certain appeal handle better? Fiat 124? Not in same league. Sorry.

And yet there we were..... waiting on darin every time we went out. ;-)

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[911monty]

Originally Posted by maytag

And yet there we were..... waiting on darin every time we went out. ;-)

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Haha Don't judge the car by the driver. Enjoy

[maytag]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Haha Don't judge the car by the driver. Enjoy

Show me your elbows, monty! Haha. Cheers right back atcha! ;-)




Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk