I guess implying that those who don't think the way he does fall out of bed head-first is 'little drama" in your opinion?

Or maybe it just wasn't one if his better moments?

Either way, I was joking in my response and I hope he understands that.

By the way, it was also aimed at 10/10ths, who implied that re-using a crush washer puts your engine at risk. A 2-fer, if you will. :D I'm extending a peace offering to him as well.

Honestly I am not a hard core washerist; I do have a couple baggies of them in various sizes, but I also may have on occasion picked a used one off the garage floor and stuck it on a plug before tightening it with Vice-Grips.

The discussion was getting a little polarized, so I just thought it would be fun to give it a push.

Been known to do that on occasion myself! :D

This will be too funny if the source of njbray's leaking oil problem is not the LN magnetic plug as suspected but the re-use of the crush washer that has taken over this thread. No that will not prove anything but stir up the discussion.

To torque or not to torque? To new or to re-use? Those are the questions. :)

I can't remember the last time I saw a crush washer of the type you're describing. I HAVE seen them, so I know what you're talking about, but all I've ever seen used over the last 30 years (including factory parts for Porsche & Ferrari) is the Flat Washer of (usually) aluminum, but occasionally copper. (Never brass. Alu and Cu are MUCH more malleable than brass).

Here's the Porsche Brand washer for the referenced application, you'll note it is a flat, alu washer.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90012310630OEM.htm?pn=900-123-106-30-OEM&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=1052

Where do YOU buy a crush-washer of the type you're describing?

Pressure and no pressure (head pressure of less than 15cm is no pressure) 100% different scenarios. I agree.

I ALWAYS use new flat copper or aluminum washers on brake fittings. Oil fittings... sometimes.

I heard an old hillbillie tell me one time you can anneal the copper back into shape and re-use a copper washer. But copper washers like cotter pins are so cheap and plentiful why not just buy a new one. I guess if I was stranded in a desert I could use that information???

Yes you can anneal copper washers.
Heat to cherry read and quench in water.

You can anneal aluminum washers.
blacken with a magic marker.
heat just until the magic marker burns off.
Air cool room temp.

Working copper or aluminum work hardens both.
To the point where they become brittle and crack.
Annealing them takes both back to there normal malleable state

There are times when you just can't buy what your looking for.
maybe a washer of a certain size and thickness.

Subaru still uses them. In fact, IIRC, that's the first time I heard the term 'crush washer' so naturally that's what I think of when I hear it.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Subaru-803916010-Gasket-Pack/dp/B00IW33NRO/ref=asc_df_B00IW33NRO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241948264947&hvpos=&hvnetw= g&hvrand=4423746194248373463&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt =&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005888&hvt argid=pla-449381752974&psc=1

I always thought they used brass washers on banjo bolts and the like. Maybe it was copper, or a copper alloy that had a brass color.

Peace....
 

....My point was only that LN lists a torque spec in their instructions.

The torque spec is there for a reason. The reason being that if you OVER torque their magnetic drain plug, the magnetic insert will “spin” inside the plug body and you will develop an oil leak.

That is why you SHOULD use a torque wrench EVERY time on the LN magnetic drain plug. The other issue is that their drain plug has a LOWER torque spec than the OEM drain plug.

So, you have a tool that can tell you exactly what the torque is. It just seems logical that you would want to ensure your car doesn’t develop an oil leak.

As far as the crush washer, well....yeah, you should use a new one every time. The idea is that they CRUSH upon use. So logically, you want one that has not been crushed when you replace it.

Crush washers are less than a dollar each. When you order an oil filter, order a dozen crush washers and you are set for years.

It’s really simple.

My point was that if you invested in a Porsche, invest a few bucks on crush washers and a torque wrench and keep her happy.

That was all.

The cost of ownership includes service.

It’s like guys who buy Mustangs and complain that the rear tires cost $200.

Buying a “cheap” old Boxster gets real expensive if you don’t properly maintain her.

That is what my “washers are cheap and engines are expensive” comment was all about.

Cheers, everyone.

Enjoy the drive.

As this thread has demonstrated, we don't fully agree here—I have had/used the LN magnetic plug since Aug, 2009, and have never once used a torque wrench on it. And I do think I've kept my machine "happy," notwithstanding having recycled a few crush rings.

That said, I do understand, and respect, what you're saying.

Cheers as well. I will enjoy the drive, have been for 14 years...what's not to enjoy?? :cheers:

Awesome!
 

Watch out for the cops.

:cheers::cheers:

And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Can you imagine how boring that would be?

I respect everyone's input here, whether I agree with it or not. And I can take (and throw) friendly jabs here and there. But I have no personal animus towards anyone.

Right back atcha: Cheers all! :cheers:

Maytag!

A few rousing verses of Kumbaya, please! :D

"Can't we all just get along." Rodney King, 1965 - 2012

It’s ALL good....
 

.....we DO get along.

No animosity here.

Every once in a while somebody loses their mind. But that is really not very often.

I have learned soooooo much from this forum. I just try to pay it forward when I see a post that I have personal knowledge about.

Cheers!

When I changed out the oil on my Toyota FJ Cruiser diffs and transfer case, a couple of the Toyota washers were like this (and a couple weren't...) I thought it was odd that they all weren't the same, but with the rolled edge you could really see and feel it crush down when you tightened it.

yeah, probably like most items, they source from the cheapest mfr with the same spec.

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a crush-washer like that though. (I've never owned a toyota, believe it or not! I might need to rectify that soon!)

Maytag,

Look at the washer on a spark plug.;)

Yeah, but that's an entirely different situation. And, while I get that it IS, I've certainly never referred to that as a crush washer. ;-)

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Not related to this reuse-not-to-reuse debate, but maybe helpful for the OP: I struggled a lot with the oil lines on my motorcycle where I fitted a pressure gauge with banjos. I tried copper and aluminum flat washers, but they all leaked, because the pressure is high at those lines and the thread at the banjo bolt didn`t withstand high torque. So I found these aluminum crush washers with a rubber insert and they worked perfectly. It creates a very good seal even when tightened to a low torque. Newer Japanese bikes use it for brake lines. For example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oil-Drain-Plug-Metal-Rubber-MR21-Crush-Seal-Washer-Set-of-10-for-Toyota-Lexus/273351435154?hash=item3fa503e392:g:LmkAAOSwSixbRtm 6

Definitely not reusable. ;)

Thanks for all the replies.
So I tested my torque wrench and it is between 19.2 NM and 20.1 NM when set at 19 NM. Not sure if this would damage the plug.
I have read on some other forums that the aluminum washer that comes with them may be too hard and it's better to use a genuine Porsche washer!
Anyway..it's still dripping so I guess I have to swap it out and use a new washer or a new plug!

Have you tried torquing just slightly more?
That worked just fine the one time I under did it during an oil change.
Drain plugs---regardless of where sourced---have to be cranked quite a bit to strip them. In my experience anyway. (ie I've never stripped one.)

So somebody double check me on this. I believe the torque spec is in ftlb not nm? And 19 nm would only be +/-14 ftlbs? It isn't tight enough by +/- 5 lbs? Thus causing the leak?

It is 50Nm (37 ft-lb) for the factory plug. For the magnetic plug it is 19 ft-lb and 26Nm rounded up NJBray. You either mistyped or we just found where your mistake is.

If you over torque this can happen:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1596255675.jpg

And it will leak.

I don't know my own strength sometimes. :eek:

Seems like I did over a 1000 oil changes on my first Boxster, and this plug had been torqued a number of times.

If you strip the inside of your oil plug (this happened on my 911, not my fault) this tool is a must-have:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1596256344.jpg

The other thing I "always" do (though it's possible I might have neglected to do last time—maybe I exited my bed head first that morning, who knows? :rolleyes:—hence the tiny amount of seepage I experienced) is to carefully clean up the drain plug & surrounding area when I'm done. Then I start the car (still elevated), letting it run for a minute or so. Gives me a chance to check for leaks. Rexcramer's theory sounds pretty plausible to me btw.

The same thing happened to me when I first got my Boxster and changed the oil. I used a new Porsche crush washer and 444 in lbf (not a fancy torque wrench, 3/8" drive, 960in lbf max. It was an LN magnetic plug. In hindsight I should've looked up LN's torque specs but at the time I assumed it was the same as factory).

I tightened the LN plug by hand, then with a normal socket wrench until I felt a little resistance, then went in with my torque wrench. But I noticed the torque wrench wasn't clicking and I wasn't getting an increase in resistance as the plug tightened. Then I noticed that the threaded part had sheared off of the head and was spinning deeper into the oil pan as I tightened. The remaining oil started to drip out. Thankfully the previous owners kept the original factory drain plug in a parts bin. The LN plug had been on the car for 15,000 miles and 6 oil changes. I'll post pics if I can find them on my old phone.

If the same thing is happening to you, I would not tighten the plug as it is already shearing.

update: the LN plug that broke was purchased from Pelican Parts in April 2011. Part# LN-106-07. I recall the plug needing a different size and/or type bit (not the 8mm hex like stock). The more I think of it, I don't think the torque spec was written on the head. I feel like I would've seen that and changed my torque setting. I knew some kind of aftermarket magnetic plug was installed and I later noticed the purchase of the plug was documented in the car's logbook so there's still no excuse for me applying the wrong torque. I'm confident the owner who purchased the plug torqued it properly for oil changes 1 and 2. But changes 3 through 6 probably left the plug no chance of surviving based on the mixed bag of people who performed those oil changes.

Here's the LN plug:
Attachment 22491
I didn't think to take any other pictures (even after it broke)

So I'm assuming the original drain plug is steel, vs the LN which is aluminum?

If that's the case, for those who want a magnetic plug, why not just put a disc magnet on top of the original plug?

They put magnets in tranny pans all the time, but those are made of steel and these oil pans are made of aluminum. If the original plug is steel, then a disc magnet should hold on it just fine.

Has anyone tried it?

The original plug is aluminum, and the use of a steel plug in an aluminum sump cover is asking for trouble.

Makes sense. But I thought the LN requires a lower torque than the OE Plug. If both the original and LN plugs are aluminum, why do the LN plugs spec such a lower torque and why are they stripping?

They must be manufactured differently (maybe someone else can elaborate with facts because I have no clue). But they're shearing apart because people like me are using the wrong torque spec or none at all. Also in my case, who knows how much force the previous owners were using for the other 5 oil changes. Factory calls for 444in lbf, LN recommends almost half that (230in lbf). There should be no excuse though; it says "26Nm" on the plug lol

LN magnetic torque....
 

....is less than the OEM plug because the magnetic part inside the outer plug body can “spin” inside the plug body if you over torque it as I explained above.

The Magnet is not aluminum. The Plug is aluminum. You have two different metals and vastly different hardnesses.

So if you torque the magnetic plug to the same level as the OEM plug, the magnet inside the LN plug can break away from the outer ring and spin and you will leak oil.

From what we have seen, operator failure.

… waaaaay to snipy; and I can't find the delete post icon...

There has to be more to it. Maybe the LN plug is more finicky and less forgiving of the aforementioned operator error than the OE plug?

From what I've read on here, it seems that there's a very narrow window between not enough torque that the aluminum washer won't seal and too much torque that will strip the inside metal from the outer aluminum threads. That's just my observation.

That’s why....
 

....When you invest in the LN magnetic drain plug, it comes with instructions. And the instructions are on their web site.

Read the instructions when you buy a new product. Read the owner’s manual in your car. Engineers spent a lot of time and money and blood, sweat, and tears to engineer these things and then write up detailed instructions for their customers to make sure everything works as engineered.

But people are lazy and don’t want to take five minutes to READ.

People will drop $100,000 on a car, and then not take five minutes to read how to care for that car.

Forgive my rant, but I work in the automotive industry, my specialty is technical instruction.

I always ask folks, “If you bought a private jet, would you make sure you knew how to change the oil properly before you flew across the ocean?”

If you can’t take five minutes to read the owner’s manual, and make sure your car doesn’t dump out all its oil on a drive across Montana, then you shouldn’t buy the car.

Harsh? No. Reality? Hell yes.

RTFM.

I’m done. Thanks for your time. Return to your normal programming.

I don't think these posts should get lost in the fray. After re-reading this thread I change my recommendation. Their plug may not be broken like mine was. Unless the OP is 100% sure they got it right the first time, maybe they can go back underneath and confirm the proper torque value and units were used. Let us know how it goes.

I would not bet on that. We have installed a lot of these plugs, torqued them to LN’s specs, and never had a problem with them. That said, we have also seen quite a few that we did not install that had become “problems”. The common denominator between the two seemed to us to be how they were installed. After multiple oil changes (which we did), the plugs we installed looked brand new; the problem plugs brought to us for the most part looked like they had been through a war with Allan flats rounded off, parts of the plug head chewed up, and some in so tight that they must have been installed with a breaker bar.

Geeeeeez, I wish I’d never stumbled into this thread.

After 11 years of virtually trouble-free oil changing experiences with my magnetic plug (sans torque wrench!) I’m just sure it’s all gonna go to hell in a handbasket from here on out. :eek: :eek: