Boxster 986 particles in oil filter
 

Just done an oil service on my 986 2000 2.7 at about 121k miles and found no metallic bits in the filter but lots of these tiny green plastic particles of various sizes. Am guessing they are from the chain guides? There were none at all in the previous oil change. Can anyone advise me please? http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1592238049.jpg


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The photo of these particles is zoomed in by cropping they generally are 1-2mm in size

Not positive but I think the chain guide material is brown or a tannish color.
Those particles look to be the color of the seals in the Variocam plungers.
Do a search here on the forum. There are a few threads on those types of particles found in oil filters.

You need to have your vario cam units tested .

what came of your green rubber Gabe?

Thanks, yes did a search and it is very interesting to hear it may be the variocam chain adjustors seals breaking up. It seems the new parts cost and labour is very expensive to solve this. I was wondering if good used parts might work and the potential risks of driving the car? Looks as if I need to do more research...

Yes true I need to do some checking about costs and parts and review the viability of this issue in the long term - as putting in up to £6k worth of repairs on a £2-3k Boxster in UK is daft!
I have checked and to use good used actuators would be OK so that reduces the cost.

The question really is can it be driven with the rubber seals broken? On the basis that it drove fine before the oil change (and the particles were found) and starts after I reckon it can be driven...Has anyone who had this issue any experience about driving theirs please?

Would the variocam units need testing on a proper system? I only have a cheap code reader BUT it does read live data BUT not sure where to look and how to test or check

I have a 5 chain-engine, with a different cam-actuating system. On that one, a simple thing you can test is the coil for continuity with an Ohm-meter. I`m just rebuilding the heads and got a used actuator from eBay, so you may find a good one there too. I don`t know about the 2.7 actuator, but the 2.5 has no such part that could produce the debris you found in the filter, at least not in such amount. It`s hard to tell though based on the picture. Maybe once you remove the faulty unit from your car and inspect it, you`ll be able to tell what to look for on a used one before you buy it.

Yes, mine is a 2.7 x5 chain 2000 car. Apparently the variocam actuator has these green seals hidden inside the body of it (so visually telling if one was as bad could be hard).
The weird thing is, before the oil change (and some of this was found in the filter) the car ran good and it starts and is not erratic and I dare say it will still run. From what I have read the variocam is operated by an electrical solenoid triggered by the DME or ECU and therefor will still cut in even though the seals are worn away and I am hopeful the particles have been collected (partly) in the filter? There are no warning lights and I wonder if it is OK to run the engine and see? I have been advise to flush the engine, check filter and if particles still there to have it taken out + opened up...My opinion is the bits are rubber, soft, pliable and won't damage much as they are tiny too (although I was told the intake screen of oil pump could get blocked?).

In mine (1999 5 chain) the variocam actuator that broke is a bit different:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1592510634.jpg

They are both operated by oil pressure, the solenoid only opens and closes small oil channels inside the unit and the rest of the job is done by the oil moving the piston. So yours is most likely not operational, because the pressure can`t build up without the O-ring. Maybe you can`t feel the difference because the other bank is still functional, but if you hook up a durametric or similar you should be seeing incorrect cam deviation values at the rpm values when the unit should actuate.

Probably you will have to replace the chain guides at some point, that`s where the little brown chips are coming from, so you need to remove the valve cover anyway. I don`t know how long it takes for them to go completely, but in my car they came off and the parts made the timing jump somehow. If you don`t want to do that soon, it`s a good idea to drop the oil pan and clean the rest of the rubber debris off from the strainer.

Many thanks for that information and the photo - I will study what you said and possibly rethink my plans...Sounds like test of cam deviation is good idea. When yours broke did the engine lights come on?

I had exactly the same thing happen to my 2001 2.7 Boxster, same ‘green’ hard rubber pieces in the filter, and like yours my car was running okay (at least I thought it was) and it wasn’t showing any fault codes. Also 2 of my 3 ‘Chain Tensioners’ were shot, and this combined with the ‘Variocam Tensioners’ being shot caused a rattle on start up, but again the car ‘seemed’ to be running fine. After replacing the ‘Variocam Tensioners’ and the 3 cam chain Tensioners, it was like a new car, instant increase in power and absolutely no rattle on start up ‘cold or hot’! I honestly believe that the ‘Variocam Tensioners’ and the ‘chain Tensioners’ are a bigger problem than the IMSB problem, when I pulled my motor to do the ‘Tensioners’ I did the IMSB at the same time (and it was in as new condition no wear at all). And yes the ‘Variocam Tensioners’ are expensive but mine did 150,000ks, before they became a problem, so when I compare that with my daily driver (Subaru Forester) and the cost of repairs on it, I don’t think the cost of fixing the Porsche is that bad. Let’s face it I know which car I’d rather drive.

You're going to want to address this to avoid bigger problems. I got an "S" cheap because the remnants of those guides blocked the oil pickup and shut down the engine.

No clue. Never seen this car run :)

Its not Camshaft deviation your looking to test if your wanting to see if your Variocam actuators are working.
Its Camshaft advance when the actuator kicks in.
Go up to post #3 in this thread and click on the link. (it says Green Rubber)
Read that entire thread.
There is an explanation of what your looking for in the test and at what RPM.
There is also a brief explanation of Camshaft deviation and what the specs are.

Lots of useful info in that thread. Regarding the deviation: in the 5 chain engine where the camshaft position sensor monitors the intake camshaft only, and the intake camshaft is the one that`s moved by the actuator, so when the solenoid kicks in the deviation should change as well, shouldn`t it? Maybe this is not true for the 3 chain engines.

Not the way I understand camshaft deviation.
Think of the relationship of the camshaft to the crankshaft.
The cam will be timed to the crank.
Lets say the Cam is off by 3 degrees of advance from that set point.
That would be 3 degrees of positive camshaft deviation.
So actuator kicked in or out you will still have 3 degrees of positive camshaft deviation from its proper timing relationship to the crankshaft.
The movement or advance of the cam when the Variocam actuator kicks in is a design feature of the system.
Deviation is not.
That's my current understanding of it.

Yes, Thanks blue62 - I never actually realised the "green rubber" statement was a link I could click on and view (thought it was just a statement of what the particles were or are)

Liamray, Yes, your points seem spot on and the fairly common start up chain slap, rattle and wear on all these key (interdependent) areas of the timing chain system may well be considered a real issue for cars that are now 20+ years old. The fact that the tensioner cylinders are very expensive and not serviceable too adds to it all + the time and labour to get it all repaired.

Code Reader screen shot photos at idle
 

Not sure what sections relate to checking varioCam working correctly? These readings are on idle.

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The reading of the section I guessed were relevant at 3000 revs are;
LTFT - B1 27.34%
LTFT - B2 28.12%

STFT - B1 0-2.34%
STFT - B2 0-3.12%

Spark advance 19.5%

SHRTFT 11 -10%
SHRTFT 12 99.21%

I have (honestly) no idea what these "LTFT" etc actually mean and if anybody can look at these readings and suggest areas of concern or help then please do. I just need to know what section to look at when it is driven over 3000 revs (by co-pilot)?

LTFT and STFT are fuel trim stats, (Long term and short term fuel trim) as I understand it. What I see that seems odd is the coolant temp. is that 92 celcius= nearly 200 degrees Fahrenheit?

Not at all odd, most of these cars with the factory thermostat are running 210-215F.

Normal operating temp for the conditions.
Car is sitting still and the fans have not kicked on yet.
Normal temp for just about any car I can think of for the conditions.

You need a scanner that will show degrees of camshaft advance.
Then you watch the camshaft advance when you get above the actuator trigger threshold. (1500 RPM I think) the camshaft advance will jump up.

An easier way is a scanner that can actuate the Variocam actuators.
You trigger an actuator at idle with the scan tool and you hear and feel the motor run differently= rougher. You can trigger one side at a time.
Both of my scanners can do it, makes testing the function of actuators, injectors and other modules simple.

If you decide to go for another scanner look at Foxwell. Mine is the 520NT Pro, under $200.00 US.
I think they have upgraded to a 530NT now as mine is a year or two old.

Agreed. In most European cars fan switch turns on at 92 C and off at 82 C, so at idle or in heavy traffic coolant temperature varies between these two values.

Foxwell looks like a good deal. What`s the advantage of Durametric over this? I`ll need to buy one soon too.

Thanks everyone for the help it looks as if my very cheap (£14) code reader isn't going to be any use on this. The temp is about right for my car (runs hot in traffic or if not on open road) but I have not noticed the side engine cooling fan starting up for ages.

Strange thing is the car is running exactly as it always has and I got it home after only 4 miles (to test it and warm it up) thinking it is going right.

A contact of mine (ex Porsche engine builder) in UK suggested that there are other green rubber items it may be; such as spark plug tube seals or 2 sump round cavity things and these can get broken up?
One of mine did have a leak and 2 tubes came out on the coils doing a spark plug change recently.http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1592852976.jpg

Yes that is exactly the kind of test it needs to be sure

I own both.
Personally I don't see that Durametric has an advantage over the Foxwell.
The Foxwell will do everything that the Durametric enthusiast model will do.
My Foxwell was around $175.00 shipped.
I think Durametric is around $350.00 for the enthusiast model and around $750.00 for the professional model.

Durametric: you need a laptop
It is Porsche specific=it only reads Porsche
The enthusiast model is limited to use on Three vin numbers
some info is a little difficult to follow such as the way RPM ranges are laid out for fuel trims

Foxwell:
Standard scanner= no laptop needed
it comes loaded with what ever manufacture specific program you choose
You can add additional manufactures for around $60.00 per manufacture.
Your not limited to how many different Vins you connect to.
You can do the normal scans, live data, freeze frame, graphs etc. on any OBDII compliant system.
You only need manufacture specific programs to access manufacture specific codes or functions.

Screen layouts are of course different between the two.
Durametric is typical computer layout with various folders
Foxwell is typical OBDII scanner layout.
I think Foxwell is a very good buy for the money

Yes I have the green particles in my filter .I checked my active cam timing and it was determined that my vario cam is working .Tested at 4500 rpm and 26 degree of advance showed deviation of 2.xxx .My motor is a RND engine with 23 thousand miles they said its the color of the sealant they use . I continue to monitor my timing and oil.And drive it everyday .There is a pic on this post that shows a vario cam actuator that the piston came all the way out .I would like to ask the owner if the tan plastic guide was completely gone ? I have no rattling sound .Do the o-ring get old and brittle and break or dose the piston come out so far that they fall off ? I don't know what my issue is or if I have one or not.

Thanks for the useful info :cheers:. I think I`m gonna get one.

That is interesting because it does mean you can have green bits in the filter and still everything still works - although it seems your green bits are sealant used in the engine rebuild.

What I find annoying is that with these cases (where an engine may be very close to the point of imploding) there is no engine warning light or codes coming up to indicate this. I guess it is just the same as in a car that has a timing belt failure.

I looked at the tensioner cylinder design and it basically just actuates slightly (in and out) in a barrel with seals designed to stop engine oil getting in (presumably) and is activated by the electrical solenoid to make a mechanical movement to tension or release tension. IMO even with the seals broken it probably would still operate (and like the dreaded IMS bearing, when the seals fail be lubricated by oil not grease)? If the solenoid goes then it wont work and you'd get a code fault? But if the seals break down the engine has no idea and the tensioner barrel, being metal can just continue to function and the system doesn't detect any malfunction (because it opens and closes but is more lubricated or the tolerance is such that the external engine oil has no effect. Is the varioCam tensioner a sealed unit or does it take oil from the engine? Guess the seals are there to maintain the internal pressure of the tensioner and without them the power of the pressure is reduced or limited? So many questions...

The fact that Porsche changed the system on the 2002 facelift version to use the VW Audi one is indicative they decide the new one was better or cheaper.
Also, I wonder whether the varioCam units are the same design on the earlier 911 engines and have they ever failed?

Hartech, (engine builders in UK) said when I spoke to them that the real issue was getting an engine failure by the particles blocking the oil pump feed and that an engine flush or sump removal may be a good idea.

I’ve been following this thread and good I also have Foxwell NT520 but never really use all the features except when I have to fix my ABS. But was able to help friends with their check engine and obdii functions for smog purposes.

Like the previous members said, why is it with smog related issue, cars will trigger a check engine even with just small issue, but any deviation from variocam or tensioner that can cause engine failure/catastrophe will not give any check engine. Smog requirements is more priority but engine failure is not, from car manufacturing design?

You may wanna reread my comment #11. The actuator is operated by oil pressure, not by the solenoid, the solenoid operates a valve only that channels oil flow to the piston that advances the timing of the intake camshaft. If the solenoid is faulty, probably the ECU will see that and may trigger the check engine light. I`m just guessing here. If the actuator is not working because it can`t hold the pressure, then you won`t have cam advancement, but your engine is not in danger, not like when timing gets messed up. Just it won`t perform as it should at a certain rpm range. The seals are there to hold the pressure, not for stopping engine oil getting into the actuator. I agree, pulling the sump is probably a good idea to clean the rest of the debris off the oil pickup strainer.

interesting. I have only referenced the drivers gauge for temp, never seen mine step up above about 185 on a hot summer day, fans blazing. I will play with my duremetric and see if this is different. I just replaced the thermo with a 72C, but the driver gauge only shows about a 3-4 degree lower (183 was "normal" now it hits 180 and sticks)
thanks!

I just replaced my OEM thermostat with a low temp thermostat.
I then took the car on a 297 mile run with my scanner plugged into the OBDII port.
This allowed me monitor the temps that the ECU was seeing and compare readings to the dash display.
Ambient temps were from 61 degrees in the morning to 93 degrees in the afternoon.
Coolant temps ran from 183 -205 degrees depending on engine load, ambient temp, road speed, and RPM.
Coolant temps reported by the scanner corelated very closely to the dash gauge.

I have done this same test with the OEM thermostat. on the same 297 mile run.
Coolant temps in that test ran 5 degrees higher through the range.

Also I don't think the fans kick on until around 196-200 degrees. At least mine don't. Mine is a 2000S
Just as an edit to this: I looked up the trigger temps for the fans.
Low speed kicks on at 206.2F high speed kicks on at 215.6F

Yes, Thanks - I did read the point about the actuators working on oil pressure not sure if the unit is sealed or taking engine oil to operated I guess it is? I took the car out yesterday for a 20 mile test run and it ran impressively; quick revs response and power and just seemed about right (according to my previous experience of how it drives) I was cautious at first as I don't want to ruin my engine but overall it was good. I saw an ad for the full kit of new timing chains, cylinders and tensioners online for $3,500 that is a very expensive set of parts to replace!

Found this link with drawings of the entire Porsche variocam system and how it works;

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/557016-how-variocam-and-variocamplus-works-a-primer.html

Pretty cool, haven`t seen this yet, thanks!

Just looked at the link and it got me thinking. EDIT: Knowing that the two cam actuators are different, is it possible that only one has a tendency to fail? Or this failure is rather model dependent?

I looked through a couple of threads on this matter and they were all about 2.7 engines.

I split one actuator from bank 4-6 (2.5 base), and it`s clearly different from the one pictured on the previous page in this thread (2.7). If you go back in the thread you can see both side by side. Mine had no problem with the large green O-ring, does not even have it. So is it because it`s model specific (2.5 vs 2.7) or because the one that usually fails correspond to bank 1-3? Can anyone confirm either this or the other possibility?