IMS failures on automatics?

[tonythetiger]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

And the skills to make those custom parts he speaks of? We all have those.

There are at least 5 other IMS replacement offerings I know of he didn't mention. All with varying characteristics.

The investment to create a bearing assembly, test it, create tools and instructions that facilitate it being done by someone who never has done it before are worth something. To say nothing of warranty expenses and customer service costs. Maybe not to the video producer. I happened to be in touch with the guys who first created the replacement kits when they were destroying bearings and engines in their quest for the right one. They were a long time recovering those sunk costs.

I've owned 2 Boxsters. One a dual row, one a single. I totaled the first car without having replaced the IMS. Someone got a low mileage engine probably when the insurance company totaled the car. I didn't replace the second one, it was still in the car at 90k last I heard.

What is your risk tolerance? How would you feel having replaced the bearing assembly and something else takes out the engine or car? How would you feel if the bearing failed and you hadn't replaced the assembly? How long do you think you will keep the car?

A great replacement will add value but not the total cost of the replacement. A good replacement will help sell the car quicker. If I were to replace, I'd go great or at least with one that had many thousand known installs.

Burner is cool. I’ve wondered what happened to him. If Anyone knows, please share and my hellos to him.
So, yes, if you replace I think there are a few options, but the safe option is LN. I still balk at the price and I refuse to believe it’s fair, but so goes. I will concede that with the pricing for various LN offerings, Saving between 500-1600 dollars on the part is more than tempting to consider less expensive options.


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[berni29]

Hi

People keep talking about an "OEM" bearing. What exactly would that be? NSK 6204 with seals? Would it be a C3 clearance or standard?

Thanks

Berni

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by berni29

Hi

People keep talking about an "OEM" bearing. What exactly would that be? NSK 6204 with seals? Would it be a C3 clearance or standard?

Thanks

Berni

If you have the dual-row bearing, this is it:

NSK BD20-17
6204DUA17

[berni29]

Originally Posted by piper6909

If you have the dual-row bearing, this is it:

NSK BD20-17
6204DUA17

Hi

Thank you

But can you actually buy either of those two bearings off the shelf now? I read that the dual row is totally NLA, and when I was hunting around could not find a 6204DUA17 unless it was from Pelican with the kit.

All the best

Berni

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by berni29

Hi

Thank you

But can you actually buy either of those two bearings off the shelf now? I read that the dual row is totally NLA, and when I was hunting around could not find a 6204DUA17 unless it was from Pelican with the kit.

All the best

Berni

Yes, from what I read, 6204DUA17 was a number used specifically for Porsche. But BD20-17 is still available:

https://www.123bearing.com/bearing-BD20-17-A-DDUA17NX01-NSK.php

[Kice]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Yes, from what I read, 6204DUA17 was a number used specifically for Porsche. But BD20-17 is still available:

https://www.123bearing.com/bearing-BD20-17-A-DDUA17NX01-NSK.php

I saw that too. Did anyone actually confirm with the manufacturer or any other reliable source that this is --exactly-- the same bearing that was originally installed by Porsche? If yes, it would be the best (and cheapest) replacement for dual-row models..

[Xpit77]

I had my 99 tip done at 138km. Indy said tips do fail but nearly not as often as a manual. They had done around 60 in total when mine was done.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Xpit77

I had my 99 tip done at 138km. Indy said tips do fail but nearly not as often as a manual. They had done around 60 in total when mine was done.

That's more anecdotal evidence that anything. In theory, Tip or manual shouldn't make any difference whatsoever. Except maybe people that opt for a manual tend to drive them a little harder or maybe inadvertently over-rev when downshifting?

[JFP in PA]

I for one have never understood why someone would go to the expense or effort to replace the existing questionable bearing with another one that looks just like it, unless your only motive was to be able to say the IMS was "updated" and then quickly trade or sell the car. Even less credible is replacing a dual row factory bearing, one of the most durable, with a single row, the most problematic, and a spacer. Jeez.........

In my shop, we only used either the LN ceramic hybrid bearing, a design that is much stronger than the factory steel bearing, or the LN IMS Solution which is the "once and done forever" answer to the entire question. No NSK, no roller bearings, and absolutely no DOF installations. If a potential customer wanted something else, they were told they needed to go somewhere else. Once LN and Jake released the dual row design IMS Solution, we pretty much did not install anything but IMS Solutions. Yes, they cost more, but they never fail, never have to be changed out, and definitely add to resale/trade values.

[nuvolari]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I for one have never understood why someone would go to the expense or effort to replace the existing questionable bearing with another one that looks just like it, unless your only motive was to be able to say the IMS was "updated" and then quickly trade or sell the car.

Well, my car has 160k miles on what appears to be the original bearing and I'm also going on what you said in this thread about how some cars go many miles on the OEM bearing while others fail quickly and repeatedly. While I would love to install the Solution, the price is just too ridiculous. If it were closer to $1000, I would probably go for it as it's the only bearing that seems reliable, both in design and statistics.
With that said, I have a car with an OEM bearing that's gone 160k miles and with a new dual row bearing installed, I should be at around an overall failure rate of 3%. Can you show me an alternative other than the Solution that can make that claim?

Even less credible is replacing a dual row factory bearing, one of the most durable, with a single row, the most problematic, and a spacer. Jeez.........

I agree. I would never downgrade to a single row ball bearing whether ceramic or steel.

In my shop, we only used either the LN ceramic hybrid bearing, a design that is much stronger than the factory steel bearing, or the LN IMS Solution which is the "once and done forever" answer to the entire question. No NSK, no roller bearings, and absolutely no DOF installations. If a potential customer wanted something else, they were told they needed to go somewhere else. Once LN and Jake released the dual row design IMS Solution, we pretty much did not install anything but IMS Solutions. Yes, they cost more, but they never fail, never have to be changed out, and definitely add to resale/trade values.

Yes, the Solution is a great choice but the price...! These cars are still falling in price and although they will probably eventually appreciate, they will always be the black sheep of the Porsche family and will remain slightly lower than earlier and later models without all the problems of these cars. Therefor, it's going to be difficult to sell Solutions as the years progress. I wish they had designed a bearing that utilized replaceable bearings similar to rod bearings and then used a less exotic material for the metals that make up the Solution as I'm guessing that may be driving the price up. True, it wouldn't last forever but longer than the crank or rod bearings and it would be easy to replace at an engine rebuild or when changing a clutch. Maybe they could come out with something like this or other ways to bring the price down.

As for the ceramic bearing, I've read about too many failures of this bearing to feel comfortable using it. Not saying there's anything wrong with it but there are serious questions about this bearing which only time will answer. And that's the whole problem with the IMSB; no one actually knows what causes it and so all we have to base a very expensive decision on are statistics, expert experience and our own personal beliefs.
Same thing for the roller bearings...while they may be fine in regard to the thrust issue, they're too new to be sure about.

I guess the post ends with the question of whether 97% is enough to feel secure. Statistically, it probably is....
Oh, but how I would love that 100% Solution!

[Stl-986]

With 160k miles I think the IMS is the least of possible issues you would need to worry about. Even if you only put half those miles on yourself I think your tip will give out before your IMS does so why even bother?

[nuvolari]

Originally Posted by Stl-986

With 160k miles I think the IMS is the least of possible issues you would need to worry about. Even if you only put half those miles on yourself I think your tip will give out before your IMS does so why even bother?

Mine's a manual S. And the 6 speed has already given out. Hence the lack of appeal in spending big bucks on the IMSB.

Yes, I know what the thread's about but I had a related question....

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by Stl-986

With 160k miles I think the IMS is the least of possible issues you would need to worry about. Even if you only put half those miles on yourself I think your tip will give out before your IMS does so why even bother?

Agreed. There`s so many things other than the IMSB that can go wrong in this engine and can cause catastrophic engine failure. If you are really worry about it but don`t want to spend big bucks on the solution, why not just swap it out with the original NSK? That should be good at least for another 160k miles if the current one is still good.

[nuvolari]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

Agreed. There`s so many things other than the IMSB that can go wrong in this engine and can cause catastrophic engine failure. If you are really worry about it but don`t want to spend big bucks on the solution, why not just swap it out with the original NSK? That should be good at least for another 160k miles if the current one is still good.

Yup, that's exactly my thinking, as seen in the posts above, although my car is a 6 speed manual. I've gone off much of your advice and Grant's also in regard to all this.