Low temperature thermostat

[mipstien]

I have searched all over the place and can't seem to find what I am looking for.

I want to know why would you change the thermostat to a low temperature one if the original does it's job correctly? At what point in the weather would the low temp actually be beneficial, I am in Tennessee so not the hottest place around but it has it's days. Is there any way to tell what thermostat is already there? Maybe during the initial heat cycle?
I am asking all of this because I do not know what I have. I don't want to go back to an OEM if the previous owner has a low temp, obviously because it is running good. But if it's OEM it is running good and I wouldn't need the low temp, I suppose.

I am sure this has all been discussed and I am just lost in the amount of thermostat post's out there.

On a side note where have you gotten your unicorn blood coolant at?

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by mipstien

I have searched all over the place and can't seem to find what I am looking for.

I want to know why would you change the thermostat to a low temperature one if the original does it's job correctly? At what point in the weather would the low temp actually be beneficial, I am in Tennessee so not the hottest place around but it has it's days. Is there any way to tell what thermostat is already there? Maybe during the initial heat cycle?
I am asking all of this because I do not know what I have. I don't want to go back to an OEM if the previous owner has a low temp, obviously because it is running good. But if it's OEM it is running good and I wouldn't need the low temp, I suppose.

I am sure this has all been discussed and I am just lost in the amount of thermostat post's out there.

On a side note where have you gotten your unicorn blood coolant at?

If I were you I'd just go with the lower temp T-stat regardless of what's in there now. There's no disadvantage to going glower temp. You won't notice the difference much on the temp gauge anyway. I switched mine to the lower temp and the temp gauge remained pretty much where it was.

I got my Water pump, T-stat and coolant from Pelican Parts.

[mipstien]

Thanks for the reply piper6909.
Doesn't the most wear happen during the heat up phase and subsequently if the thermostat opens early wouldn't that make it wear for longer?

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by mipstien

Thanks for the reply piper6909.
Doesn't the most wear happen during the heat up phase and subsequently if the thermostat opens early wouldn't that make it wear for longer?

Hopefully someone with more knowledge about oil will chime in, but I believe that the oil will flow freely enough to lube the engine well below the 160 degree opening temp of the t-stat.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by mipstien

Thanks for the reply piper6909.
Doesn't the most wear happen during the heat up phase and subsequently if the thermostat opens early wouldn't that make it wear for longer?

These engines run way too hot with the factory thermostat, primarily for emissions purposes. Lower the coolant temperatures also dramatically lowers the oil temperatures, the oil lives longer and does a better job as the result, without impacting the car's emissions one iota.

Keeping the engine cooler also help the engines thermal efficiency, reducing spark knock, and helping it run harder. Every GT car, cup car, and all the factory turbo cars came with a 160 F thermostat.

And no, you won't see much of a change on the dash display, but that is due to the gauge's rather poor accuracy. Realistically, your engine will have dropped from around 210-220 F to around 170-175 F, will actually warm up quicker, and will still have tons of heat in the winter.

[mipstien]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

These engines run way too hot with the factory thermostat, primarily for emissions purposes. Lower the coolant temperatures also dramatically lowers the oil temperatures, the oil lives longer and does a better job as the result, without impacting the car's emissions one iota.

Keeping the engine cooler also help the engines thermal efficiency, reducing spark knock, and helping it run harder. Every GT car, cup car, and all the factory turbo cars came with a 160 F thermostat.

And no, you won't see much of a change on the dash display, but that is due to the gauge's rather poor accuracy. Realistically, your engine will have dropped from around 210-220 F to around 170-175 F, will actually warm up quicker, and will still have tons of heat in the winter.

Thank you for this information. This makes my decision a lot easier and gives me piece of mind. I really appreciate the response's. I have been holding off on ordering one because I just couldn't find enough solid info one way or another.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

These engines run way too hot with the factory thermostat, primarily for emissions purposes. Lower the coolant temperatures also dramatically lowers the oil temperatures, the oil lives longer and does a better job as the result, without impacting the car's emissions one iota.

Keeping the engine cooler also help the engines thermal efficiency, reducing spark knock, and helping it run harder. Every GT car, cup car, and all the factory turbo cars came with a 160 F thermostat.

And no, you won't see much of a change on the dash display, but that is due to the gauge's rather poor accuracy. Realistically, your engine will have dropped from around 210-220 F to around 170-175 F, will actually warm up quicker, and will still have tons of heat in the winter.

I was hoping you'd chime in, JFP! Thank you. I was tempted to mention you specifically.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

These engines run way too hot with the factory thermostat, primarily for emissions purposes. Lower the coolant temperatures also dramatically lowers the oil temperatures, the oil lives longer and does a better job as the result, without impacting the car's emissions one iota.

Keeping the engine cooler also help the engines thermal efficiency, reducing spark knock, and helping it run harder. Every GT car, cup car, and all the factory turbo cars came with a 160 F thermostat.

And no, you won't see much of a change on the dash display, but that is due to the gauge's rather poor accuracy. Realistically, your engine will have dropped from around 210-220 F to around 170-175 F, will actually warm up quicker, and will still have tons of heat in the winter.

Hi JFP. OK. You;re one of those go-to guys... and I would appreciate some clarification.

The LTT doesn't cause the engine to run cooler... it just serves to allow coolant to flow sooner than a stock thermostat. The engine is going to get as hot as it would even if there were a stock thermostat installed. So... low temp or stock thermostat the engine is going to hit the same operating temp. No two ways around that fact. Please tell me I'm wrong... and tell me why. I really want to know.

Now... installing the S cooler in a non-S car... more oil cooling ability.. that I'll buy.

In advance, thank you for your consideration.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Starter986

Hi JFP. OK. You;re one of those go-to guys... and I would appreciate some clarification.

The LTT doesn't cause the engine to run cooler... it just serves to allow coolant to flow sooner than a stock thermostat. The engine is going to get as hot as it would even if there were a stock thermostat installed. So... low temp or stock thermostat the engine is going to hit the same operating temp. No two ways around that fact. Please tell me I'm wrong... and tell me why. I really want to know.

Now... installing the S cooler in a non-S car... more oil cooling ability.. that I'll buy.

In advance, thank you for your consideration.

OK, that's easy, your wrong. The thermostat in the engine functions just like the thermostat in your house; it throttles coolant flow to maintain proximity to its rated temperature. If your cooling system did not have the excess heat transfer capacity in the radiators to shed sufficient heat, it would never cool back down running after getting stuck in traffic; but that is not what happens, it does cool back down until the thermostat takes over flow control again. The internet "old wives tale" about thermostats not controlling steady state temperatures has been needlessly confusing people for millennia. One of the easiest ways to prove my conjecture is to totally leave out the thermostat; if your idea was correct, the engine would still get up to 210-220 F; but that is not what happens. Instead, it struggles to get above 120-140 F under the same operating conditions because coolant is circulating too fast and the radiators are pulling out the heat faster than the engine can produce it.

Thermostats in your engine serve a vital function, just like the one on the wall in your home, without them things would get rather uncomfortable.

[Frodo]

So what you're saying is that the cooling system (thermostat open, coolant flowing) has WAAAY more capacity to keep the engine cool than it really needs to. So, in a way, the thermostat is also designed to keep the engine from running TOO cool. Correct?

What I don't understand is how the LTT will (as you say) cause the engine to "actually warm up quicker."

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

OK, that's easy, your wrong. The thermostat in the engine functions just like the thermostat in your house; it throttles coolant flow to maintain proximity to its rated temperature. If your cooling system did not have the excess heat transfer capacity in the radiators to shed sufficient heat, it would never cool back down running after getting stuck in traffic; but that is not what happens, it does cool back down until the thermostat takes over flow control again. The internet "old wives tale" about thermostats not controlling steady state temperatures has been needlessly confusing people for millennia. One of the easiest ways to prove my conjecture is to totally leave out the thermostat; if your idea was correct, the engine would still get up to 210-220 F; but that is not what happens. Instead, it struggles to get above 120-140 F under the same operating conditions because coolant is circulating too fast and the radiators are pulling out the heat faster than the engine can produce it.

Thermostats in your engine serve a vital function, just like the one on the wall in your home, without them things would get rather uncomfortable.

If I have a LTT in, and it fully is open at ~160 degrees... water will circulate sooner... and will sooner reach operating temperature ~210 degrees. Assuming no city driving... the temperature should remain at ~210 degrees.

If I have in a stock thermostat... and it fully is open at ~210 degrees... water will circulate later... and will later reach operating temperature ~210 degrees. Assuming no city driving... the temperature should remain at ~210 degrees.

By later I mean like around 5 minutes.

Under what conditions would the/either thermostat, while the car is running/driven, open and close according to the temperature? If the car, with either thermo, is at ~210 degrees... the thermo will remain in the open position. Highly it is unlikely, while driving, that the coolant temperature will hit the ~160 degree mark.

Is that correct? Believe me... I want it to "click".

Would it be prudent to install a coolant temperature guage (aftermarket)? If affirmative, which one would YOU recommend?

Thank you, JFP.

[jcp]

How are the thermostats marked to differentiate between the temperatures?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jcp

How are the thermostats marked to differentiate between the temperatures?

Usually stamped on the unit itself.

[Quadcammer]

the temp (in C) is imprinted on the valve. I think stock is 83c while the low temps are 71 or so.

[jcp]

Thank you, gentlemen.

[JFP in PA]

Two of the cheapest, and longest lasting, mods you can do to these cars is to lower the coolant and oil temperatures with a low temp stat, and on the base engines install the larger S oil cooler. Literally hundreds of UoA's show this really extends the oil's life and effectiveness.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Two of the cheapest, and longest lasting, mods you can do to these cars is to lower the coolant and oil temperatures with a low temp stat, and on the base engines install the larger S oil cooler. Literally hundreds of UoA's show this really extends the oil's life and effectiveness.

JFP, the same applies to the 9A1 engines (on the 981's..?)

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Gilles

JFP, the same applies to the 9A1 engines (on the 981's..?)

The direct injection systems on the 9A1 engines add a complication that rear's its ugly head as bore scoring. DI engines suffer from cylinder wall "wash" during start up and cold running; as such they need an even better oil designed to deal with this phenomenon, like the Joe Gibbs Driven DI 40, which carries additional moly along with the ZDDP. 5 K miles would also be the absolute limit on these engines.

Changing the thermostat on some of the 9A1 engines is also somewhat more complicated and many used a complicated "thermal control unit". Fortunately, LN has produced a 160 F unit specifically for these cars from 2009 to 2012. Later cars use an completely electronically controlled system for which there currently is no replacement.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

The direct injection systems on the 9A1 engines add a complication that rear's its ugly head as bore scoring. DI engines suffer from cylinder wall "wash" during start up and cold running; as such they need an even better oil designed to deal with this phenomenon, like the Joe Gibbs Driven DI 40, which carries additional moly along with the ZDDP. 5 K miles would also be the absolute limit on these engines.

Changing the thermostat on some of the 9A1 engines is also somewhat more complicated and many used a complicated "thermal control unit". Fortunately, LN has produced a 160 F unit specifically for these cars from 2009 to 2012. Later cars use an completely electronically controlled system for which there currently is no replacement.

Thank you for the comments JFP!
I installed the center cooling radiator to help preserve the health of the PDK as well, and hopefully the previous owner took good care of the engine but this would surface later if he didn't (hopefully not with scored cylinders), thanks again!

[mipstien]

Is this a good oil cooler to get?

Would it be worthwhile to just get a used one from the sale section and new seals?