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Old 09-21-2006, 09:29 AM   #1
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For the conspiracy guys out there.

How much should gasoline cost and how do you know that?

If the oil companies are manipulating this, tell me how they control the spot market for oil prices?

If OPEC can't control oil prices then how can the gas refiners?

If the price of gas follows the price of oil and even the pumping nations can't control these prices, how do the oil companies act as a monopoly.

Bueller, Beuller?
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:30 AM   #2
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The price of gas is falling due to reduced demand. Happens every fall.

The price increases in summer due to increased demand. Happens every summer.

How does the oil company control prices again?
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:54 AM   #3
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brucelee:
"The price of gas is falling due to reduced demand. Happens every fall.
The price increases in summer due to increased demand. Happens every summer."


Bruce, do I see a hedge fund in the making?
Z.
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Old 09-21-2006, 11:59 AM   #4
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yes you can bet Bruce wasn't investing in that one!

reality: where ever there are speculators, there is shadyness/collusion/corruption. And where's there is oppourtunity
the oil and gas industry is there to cash in.

our government would have you believe that only OPEC is guilty of collusive behavior. yeah right!
Meanwhile the FTC rubber stamps massive mergers like BP/Amoco that make anti-trust laws like the Clayton Act pointless. The foxes guarding the Hen House?
Yes they are all a bunch of boyscouts who exert no political influence over law makers with the billion$$ in EARNINGS they are raking in barely a year.

Price of unleaded shoots up $2 in less than a year?
Some Comedy:
Katrina Shenanigans

Again, I will ask you the questions you will not answer:

How much SHOULD gas cost and how did you arrive at that answer.

If the US Oil companies have an monopoly, why is there long term ROI lower than other companies without such monopoly.

If the US Oil companies are a monopoly why has no form of state or federal govt EVER found them guilty of anti trust violations.

When the price of oil prices died in the 80s and 90s, did the oil companies have a monopoly then or not? If not, what changed?

If there is a monopoly, why are our gas prices lower than most of the world.

And yes, OPEC is by definition, a cartel. In fact, if they had more of the world's total supply of oil, they could influence price more.

As I pointed out, their proclaimed floor of $64 per barrel was pierced the other day.

So, any facts or just wild accusations?
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Old 09-22-2006, 06:36 AM   #5
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My point is that this country has NO energy policy under the current administration, other than to line the pockets of the oil companies. Richard Branson is committing more dollars to alternative fuels than the U.S. government. (And, by the way, alternate energy firms ARE funding ethanol refineries AND getting local government approvals for such facilities. How interesting!)

I'm no fan of any politicians at the moment, but we have to give the Democrats a chance because right now they're all we have. The Republicans have chosen the oil industry over the people they're supposed to represent.

I do believe prices will rise after the election. After this past week, you'll see the oil producers will add to their rationalizations for gouging by throwing Hugo Chavez and Venezuela into the mix.

If any of you are following China's strong and diplomatic quest for energy resources in Latin America (and our apparent rejection or ignorance of this important region), there will come a day when Venezuela (as well as Iran) will find enough buyers for their oil outside the United States. I have no idea what gas should cost now, since I'm not one of the pricing manipulators, but I can tell you we will be wishing for $3.00 a gallon if those two countries are able to take their business elsewhere and the U.S. continues with its total lack of an alternative energy policy.
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander1
My point is that this country has NO energy policy under the current administration, other than to line the pockets of the oil companies. Richard Branson is committing more dollars to alternative fuels than the U.S. government. (And, by the way, alternate energy firms ARE funding ethanol refineries AND getting local government approvals for such facilities. How interesting!)

I'm no fan of any politicians at the moment, but we have to give the Democrats a chance because right now they're all we have. The Republicans have chosen the oil industry over the people they're supposed to represent.

I do believe prices will rise after the election. After this past week, you'll see the oil producers will add to their rationalizations for gouging by throwing Hugo Chavez and Venezuela into the mix.

If any of you are following China's strong and diplomatic quest for energy resources in Latin America (and our apparent rejection or ignorance of this important region), there will come a day when Venezuela (as well as Iran) will find enough buyers for their oil outside the United States. I have no idea what gas should cost now, since I'm not one of the pricing manipulators, but I can tell you we will be wishing for $3.00 a gallon if those two countries are able to take their business elsewhere and the U.S. continues with its total lack of an alternative energy policy.

Factually speaking, the US Rederal Government has an "energy policy" if one looks at ALL of its practices and regulations. You may or may not LIKE those policies and if you are unhappy, you can try to elect some folks who will enact one you like.

Of course to do that, you need a context. Simply saying that the US Government is in the pocket of the oil industry doesn't make it so. Again, no data, simply assertions that, since the policy is not what I like, it MUST be because all these guys are crooks, but I am pure.

Again, factually, if there were going on for as long as it has been implied, where is your proof? Where are the convictions>

Where is the ROI data that shows how well these companies are doing with their capital IN THE LONG RUN!

All commodity prices fluctuate greatly with supply and demand. You have not offered up one shread of credible evidence that the oil industry is engaged in any illegal actions, nor that oil prices are being manipulated.

No surprise, Congress, the FTC, Justice and the state AGs can't either.

Might be because it is not happening.

If it IS happening, it is happening ALL OVER THE WORLD! Are there NO law enforcement agencies anywhere in the world that can find these guys out?

And STILL, OPEC cannot keep its prices up.

Simply picking a time when prices go up to yell conspiracy makes you look silly.

I have no doubt that like any commodity, the price of oil will rise and fall depending on how folks perceive current and future supply and demand issues. The fact that nations are posturing to ensure that their energy needs are met is simply a fact of life.

So what, what is your alternative.

Would you like to nationalize all US oil companies.

In absence of any legal basis to do this or any evidence of illegal activity, what would you expect to be better? Are you suggesting that the US government can provide energy for us more effectively.

I am still laughing at that one.

What exactly are you suggesting, that the Democraps can do a better job? Where is your evidence for that? Are you suggesting that the Clinton administration did a better job?

Data please on that one!

Making assertions is easy, backing them up with facts is not!
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:18 AM   #7
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Bruce,
If you are relying on the a politicaly driven system of federal regualtion to reassure/convince you when there is collusion then you've got to reassess your reliance on the integrity of our government.

The very fact that the FTC has NEVER found the oil and gas industry guilty of collusion show their total lack of being consistent to all industries that come before them.
It's no different than any developing country "it's who you know" or whose campaign your are kicking in moolah for elaborate soft money contribution schemes (ask Duke Cunningham). Where is the campaign finance reform that we were promised over a decade ago? Same place the fines for outright price manipulation by the oil and gas industry ended up, non-existent lala land. It goes against human nature to leave money on the table when a clever bending of the rules will allow you to go home with your pockets that much heavier.
If there are no convictions does this mean their is no price fixing/manipulation?

It defies logic to believe that the oil and gas industry will ever be held accountable for their practices with the current political system. They contribute to politicians who make regulatory and judicial appointments and there's no quid pro quo? c'mon.

Take Immigration. Bush accepts $$$$$$ from huge corporations that rely heavily on the 10+ million undocumented workers and in 2005 his INS Commissioner rubber stamps the penalizing of less than 500 violations of employer violations for the entire year? Post 9/11? Are you kidding me??? The lack of convictions must mean that their is less employing of undocumented workers?

The EPA fined fewer polluters last year than at any point since Nixon built the agency? The lack of convictions must mean their is less polluting going on then ever before? Hmmm..

This is what they want you to believe, if there are no convictions that means there is no wrong doing. By the way that Bridge nearby in Brooklyn is still for sale.

As for what SHOULD gas cost, well no one will ever know that because we have no way of knowing to what extent costs are padded at every step of the Oil exploration to unleaded gas futures dog and pony show. Their return of Investments may look as shaky as the airline industry, But believe me, if you look at the executive compensation and the EARNINGS of this sector in the last year alone somebody is making a hell of allot of money. The industry says Katrina will have put a massive dent in our output yet they have to appear before congress to explain if things are sooo bad why are they all looking at bigger pay checks than they have ever cashed in their time on this planet?

Its no different than the major hollywood film studios. Billions are made yet according to them and their accountants at the end of the day they only make just enough to cover their operational costs and drive home weeping in their Enzos.
Its a wonder a movie ever gets made or a gallon of gas ever gets refined.
Those poor guys.
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:34 AM   #8
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Several quick points.

How much money should an oil company make? How much money should YOU make?

How do you know that?

Randy Cunningham is in jail.

Yes, there are folks that commit crimes, known and unkown. '

Some are in government, some are in industry.

Your point is?

Your solution is?

You know there is a problem how?

If you don't know how much something SHOULD cost, how do you know it costs TOO much?

You are operating without foundation here and EVERYTHING in the world economy could be attacked with the same brush you are attacking the oil industry with.

So what?

What is your alternative?

Would you like to nationalize the oil industry?

Lets here your plan to solve the "problem" you can't define?

Is the price $1, $2, or what?

Where is the place where the price is what you want it to be and why?
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