Wynn's Wins or does it?

[YellowS2000]

Hi Chaps
I know its nothing to be concerned about but I thought id try some Wynns valve lifter treatment to see if it would quite down the 1 second lifter rattle I get from cold.

Although it will not do the engine any harm and may help somewhere along the line when it came to reducing the lifter noise until the oil pressure does it didnt work.

I put it in about 3 weeks ago so its had plenty of time to do its thing.

My next hair brain idea last night was to put some slick 50 gearbox treatment in the gearbox to see if second gear will be easier when cold.

Once its warm it goes in a like a hot knife through butter. Again if it does not work its no harm or foul. Just had the gearbox oil changed about 2 weeks ago and that did help a little.

Ill keep you guys posted

Worth a try tho.

[Cunningr]

There was some discussion on another thread a few weeks ago about using Slick 50, you might try a search to see how the topic discussion went. Seems to me that it was better not to use the slick 50, but I can't remember.

[maytag]

Snake oil. All of those additives are, in the truest sense, snake oil. Developed to mask symptoms, not fix them, they prey on the uninformed. You may think "no harm", but in fact I've seen MUCH harm from these types of additives over the years.

Just one example: I have a friend whose Mercedes ML430 landed in my garage for an engine rebuild, shortly after he put an oil additive in the crankcase. The condition of the internals was very telling. The additive did NOT mix well with the engine oil, creating a sort of "goop" in the sump. It also had very different lubricating properties, leaving the motor unprotected in places / at times.

I've had several other motors, transmissions and differentials over the years suffer the ill effects of additives. I won't use them any longer. (With the exception of some specific fuel additives)

Disaster.

Of course YMMV.



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[maytag]

hmm... my last post, below, wasn't s helpful as it could've been. sorry.

If you're chasing a 'tick' int he motor, I'd want to first understand what's causing it, then approach a repair on it.

I haven't seen any other posts detailing this tick, so the questions I'd ask are as follows:

1. Does it go away when it's warm?
2. Is there ANY change in the sound (duration, frequency, pitch, etc) right after an oil change?
3. How many miles on your motor?
4. How long has it been making this noise and is it getting worse?

[Racer Boy]

If it only makes the noise for about a second after you start it, it's probably the timing chain tensioners, which work off of oil pressure. I doubt it if it's the lifters.

[YellowS2000]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

If it only makes the noise for about a second after you start it, it's probably the timing chain tensioners, which work off of oil pressure. I doubt it if it's the lifters.

Sorry it is the hydraulic lifters.

[YellowS2000]

Originally Posted by maytag

hmm... my last post, below, wasn't s helpful as it could've been. sorry.

If you're chasing a 'tick' int he motor, I'd want to first understand what's causing it, then approach a repair on it.

I haven't seen any other posts detailing this tick, so the questions I'd ask are as follows:

1. Does it go away when it's warm?
2. Is there ANY change in the sound (duration, frequency, pitch, etc) right after an oil change?
3. How many miles on your motor?
4. How long has it been making this noise and is it getting worse?

1 second rattle on start up is very common on older boxsters, Its simply until the oil pressure builds up to the lifters.... common on a lot of cars infact. Id be willing to be my mortgage that the additives was not the cause of your friends problem.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by YellowS2000

Id be willing to be my mortgage that the additives was not the cause of your friends problem.

I'd take that bet all day long, friend. And as I said before: that was only one of MANY instances where oil additives have caused serious harm.
Don't be fooled by the guy at oreilleys who has never seen the inside of a motor. These additives are ALL designed to mask symptoms, not solve anything.

Seems you are quite certain it's the hydraulic lifters. How do you know this with such certainty? What diagnosing method did you use?

If it is, in fact, your lifters, then let's reason together: why would it tick for 1 second, then pump up and stop? These lifters in this motor lay horizontally, so we could presume the oil is draining out of one or several when it sits. (This is a leap! But we're chasing your theory here). If you're going to ask an additive to make the oil STOP draining out of the lifters..... let's think about the ways it could do that. Hmm.... do any of those ways seem like they'd be good for the rest of the motor?

Exactly.

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[911monty]

Originally Posted by maytag

I'd take that bet all day long, friend. And as I said before: that was only one of MANY instances where oil additives have caused serious harm.
Don't be fooled by the guy at oreilleys who has never seen the inside of a motor. These additives are ALL designed to mask symptoms, not solve anything.

Seems you are quite certain it's the hydraulic lifters. How do you know this with such certainty? What diagnosing method did you use?

If it is, in fact, your lifters, then let's reason together: why would it tick for 1 second, then pump up and stop? These lifters in this motor lay horizontally, so we could presume the oil is draining out of one or several when it sits. (This is a leap! But we're chasing your theory here). If you're going to ask an additive to make the oil STOP draining out of the lifters..... let's think about the ways it could do that. Hmm.... do any of those ways seem like they'd be good for the rest of the motor?

Exactly.

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When the engine is shut down, one or several lifters are in various states of lift and are under compression by the valve springs. With no oil pressure, the oil in the lifter is forced out. Contamination in the lifter can stick the lifter in the compressed state. The resulting clearance can damage the lifter from hammering.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by 911monty

When the engine is shut down, one or several lifters are in various states of lift and are under compression by the valve springs. With no oil pressure, the oil in the lifter is forced out. Contamination in the lifter can stick the lifter in the compressed state. The resulting clearance can damage the lifter from hammering.

Yup.... all true.
So how do you think an additive will solve this? I know how I, and thousands of other Racers have solved this over the years, but I would love to know how someone thinks and oil additive will solve this.

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[911monty]

Originally Posted by maytag

Yup.... all true.
So how do you think an additive will solve this? I know how I, and thousands of other Racers have solved this over the years, but I would love to know how someone thinks and oil additive will solve this.

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According to the good doctor Raby it may actually make things worse. The lifters are at the end of the lubrication stream. An additive may cause any contaminants cleaned from the engine to be deposited in the lifters which are not flow through, potentially causing them to fail. This is another good reason to keep up on oil changes.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by 911monty

According to the good doctor Raby it may actually make things worse. The lifters are at the end of the lubrication stream. An additive may cause any contaminants cleaned from the engine to be deposited in the lifters which are not flow through, potentially causing them to fail. This is another good reason to keep up on oil changes.

Exactly.
This is only ONE of the results that can cause major damage internally.
I just wanted the O.P. to think through it with us, so he'd have buy-in, since his posts suggest that he is sold on these additives.

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[YellowS2000]

Originally Posted by 911monty

According to the good doctor Raby it may actually make things worse. The lifters are at the end of the lubrication stream. An additive may cause any contaminants cleaned from the engine to be deposited in the lifters which are not flow through, potentially causing them to fail. This is another good reason to keep up on oil changes.

Wow theres a lot of "mays" going on in this thread

[911monty]

Please forgive my audacity for quoting Jake Raby previously, I do not speak for him. I have attached a thread that allows him to speak for himself. It contains much good information pertaining to this subject and was given for free. Yes some say he has his own agenda. I think his thoughts no longer on this forum is a great loss. YMMV.

read this and be warned about your motor

[maytag]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Yes some say he has his own agenda. I think his thoughts no longer on this forum is a great loss. YMMV.

Why doesn't he post here any longer?
Just because somebody has an agenda, doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about all the time. It simply means you need to confirm with multiple sources when it starts sounding like a sell-job.


To the original poster: yes, there are a lot of "may"s going on here. As well as a few "have"s, as in: it HAS happened. I told you about some of my own.

Does that mean it WILL happen to you? That you'll have engine failure if you use an oil additive? Of course not. a specific set of circumstances would fall together to cause it. My friend's motor was experiencing some issues already, and he tried to use the "band-aid du jour" oil additive to save it, and it instead accelerated the issue dramatically. If your lifters are indeed ticking, and if it's because of build-up internally (we don't know, because you didn't respond to any of my "find-out" questions) then you certainly COULD exacerbate the problem with an oil additive. "WILL"? I dunno. but "COULD", absolutely.

Here's the REAL question: You've already told us that you didn't see any improvement from using it.... so why are you still a believer? Stock ownership? :-) Hahaha.