Intermix is not the oil cooler - now what?

[Doug427]

I appreciate all the input guys. This is one of those frustrating damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. The car just isn't worth enough to sink a significant amount of money into. As mentioned above, at some point that's not real difficult to reach, it's cheaper to just scrap it and buy another complete car. Yet, it's worth just enough that it's financially painful to just scrap it.

The problem is the darned labor - at my age I just don't have it in me anymore to pull the engine alone. I would have to pay to have it done. Am I wrong in assuming that it's probably $1K to $2K just in labor for an engine swap? Once the cost of either a head repair or a used engine is tossed in, you're looking at $4K at best, or $7K and up at worst for repair this car, and that's about what it's worth. Again, I'm not trying to make money off this car, but to me it's just foolish to put a repair into a car that costs equal or more to the value of that car.

I'm thinking that as suggested I'll go speak to a indy shop about diagnosing the issue, even though I can't see what else it could possibly be now other than a cracked head. I'll place a mutually agreed upon cap on the cost of the diagnosis. If they reach that cap without a diagnosis then we stop and the car gets driven as is 'till it dies and gets scrapped. There's no water in the oil at all, it may very well run for years this way, who knows.....It runs fantastically, that's the infuriating part of this. It runs strong and it doesn't overheat at all. I drove it all day long the other day in 85 degree temps and it never budged off the 180 degree mark on the temp gauge and ran perfectly.

Other than a cracked head, does anyone have any other possible causes of the intermix they can think of that I can check out on my own that can cause this? This is just so disappointing, as I do like this car.

Lastly, can anyone suggest a competent, reasonably priced Indy shop in the Houston area?

[Brian in Tucson]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I appreciate all the input guys. This is one of those frustrating damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. The car just isn't worth enough to sink a significant amount of money into. As mentioned above, at some point that's not real difficult to reach, it's cheaper to just scrap it and buy another complete car. Yet, it's worth just enough that it's financially painful to just scrap it.

The problem is the darned labor - at my age I just don't have it in me anymore to pull the engine alone. I would have to pay to have it done. Am I wrong in assuming that it's probably $1K to $2K just in labor for an engine swap? Once the cost of either a head repair or a used engine is tossed in, you're looking at $4K at best, or $7K and up at worst for repair this car, and that's about what it's worth. Again, I'm not trying to make money off this car, but to me it's just foolish to put a repair into a car that costs equal or more to the value of that car.

I'm thinking that as suggested I'll go speak to a indy shop about diagnosing the issue, even though I can't see what else it could possibly be now other than a cracked head. I'll place a mutually agreed upon cap on the cost of the diagnosis. If they reach that cap without a diagnosis then we stop and the car gets driven as is 'till it dies and gets scrapped. There's no water in the oil at all, it may very well run for years this way, who knows.....It runs fantastically, that's the infuriating part of this. It runs strong and it doesn't overheat at all. I drove it all day long the other day in 85 degree temps and it never budged off the 180 degree mark on the temp gauge and ran perfectly.

Other than a cracked head, does anyone have any other possible causes of the intermix they can think of that I can check out on my own that can cause this? This is just so disappointing, as I do like this car.

Lastly, can anyone suggest a competent, reasonably priced Indy shop in the Houston area?

I think you're badly underestimating costs. Changing out an engine, de gunking the cooling system, replacing hoses, and a "while your in there" list is gonna be a bunch more than $2500 in just labor.

[gabedrummin]

What part of Houston do you live in ? I live in spring and have found someone that works on Porsche's . His labor rates seem fair. He has worked on my Jeep and I am pleased with his work.The company is called UB Tuning off of Spring Cypress. There is another place called Lucas automotive That works on Porsche but he is much more expensive . I refuse to go to the dealer after they put a hole in my top.

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by gabedrummin

What part of Houston do you live in ? I live in spring and have found someone that works on Porsche's . His labor rates seem fair. He has worked on my Jeep and I am pleased with his work.The company is called UB Tuning off of Spring Cypress. There is another place called Lucas automotive That works on Porsche but he is much more expensive . I refuse to go to the dealer after they put a hole in my top.

I'm in Kingwood. Thanks for the recommendation, I've had guys give me two others as well - Motorwerks in Houston and Modern Air Cooled (they work on water cooled as well). They're in Houston as well. Guess I'll ring each up and go forward from there.

[Brian in Tucson]

Originally Posted by Doug427

The problem is the darned labor - at my age I just don't have it in me anymore to pull the engine alone. I would have to pay to have it done.

Don't take anything I say as trying to shame you. How old are you? Are you in bad shape? I ask because this winter, I changed out the motor in my 01 base. All by myself, in pain most of the time because of arthritis. I'm 66 and kinda in lousy shape. I could do it all again, and it'd be easier. But I'm kind of burned out.

The thing is, Doug, if you have the space and the tools, it doesn't have to be done all at once, not in a few days, or even weeks. Off and on it took me almost 3 months. I've learned a lot, tho I'm not in any better shape, but I could probably do it in 3 or 4 weeks. Lots faster with a lift. If you can do it yourself in whatever time it takes, you cost is just for an engine and all the "while you're in there" goodies you'll want to do.

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by Brian in Tucson

Don't take anything I say as trying to shame you. How old are you? Are you in bad shape? I ask because this winter, I changed out the motor in my 01 base. All by myself, in pain most of the time because of arthritis. I'm 66 and kinda in lousy shape. I could do it all again, and it'd be easier. But I'm kind of burned out.

The thing is, Doug, if you have the space and the tools, it doesn't have to be done all at once, not in a few days, or even weeks. Off and on it took me almost 3 months. I've learned a lot, tho I'm not in any better shape, but I could probably do it in 3 or 4 weeks. Lots faster with a lift. If you can do it yourself in whatever time it takes, you cost is just for an engine and all the "while you're in there" goodies you'll want to do.

I hate to say it, Brian, but it's looking more and more like this is the only answer - do it myself. I can't tell you how much I DON'T want to do this. I still love tinkering with cars, but my heavy work job days are well past me. I used to swap engines in my younger days on a moments notice, but that was American muscle cars and front engine cars. This is my first mid engine car that drops out the bottom, and I'm not looking forward to that at all. If this were one of my old Corvettes or my current Cobra, the engine would be out already. I have a very complete set of tools, and even a 4 post lift at home. I'm not home now, I'm traveling for work, so I can't look, but my question is has anyone dropped an engine out of a Boxster on a 4 post lift? Will the engine fit down through the two main ramps that the car sits on? If it will, then this is instantly a much more palatable job.

Laying on my back doing this is a much different picture. My 60 year old body has a bad back that I deal with daily, and my energy level is somewhat depleted by a past dance with chemo and radiation. No whining, it just is what it is. For the actual dropping and lifting moments in and out, I'd need a second set of hands, which aren't readily available to me, but I can probably drum up someone for that. The guy I can probably get to help me for an hour to drop and a hour to get it back up to the car doesn't know a lug nut from a steering wheel, but I suppose he really doesn't need to.

I'd be much more willing to do it myself if I could do it on my four post lift. If any one knows for sure if this can or can't be done, please let me know.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I have a very complete set of tools, and even a 4 post lift at home. .

Doug, I used one of these to remove the gearbox and also to lower the engine to seal a leaking cam cover (using jack stands..)

https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-60438.html

I believe that you can easily position this table (or something similar) between the ramps on the lift and once you remove the mounts, harness, hoses, etc., you can raise the car and leave the engine/gearbox laying on the table.

I really wish I had a lift..

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by Gilles

Doug, I used one of these to remove the gearbox and also to lower the engine to seal a leaking cam cover (using jack stands..)

https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-60438.html

I believe that you can easily position this table (or something similar) between the ramps on the lift and once you remove the mounts, harness, hoses, etc., you can raise the car and leave the engine/gearbox laying on the table.

I really wish I had a lift..

I guess it all comes down to if the engine will fit between the ramps on the lift. Thanks for the heads up.

[Brian in Tucson]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I hate to say it, Brian, but it's looking more and more like this is the only answer - do it myself. I can't tell you how much I DON'T want to do this. I still love tinkering with cars, but my heavy work job days are well past me. I used to swap engines in my younger days on a moments notice, but that was American muscle cars and front engine cars. This is my first mid engine car that drops out the bottom, and I'm not looking forward to that at all. If this were one of my old Corvettes or my current Cobra, the engine would be out already. I have a very complete set of tools, and even a 4 post lift at home. I'm not home now, I'm traveling for work, so I can't look, but my question is has anyone dropped an engine out of a Boxster on a 4 post lift? Will the engine fit down through the two main ramps that the car sits on? If it will, then this is instantly a much more palatable job.

Laying on my back doing this is a much different picture. My 60 year old body has a bad back that I deal with daily, and my energy level is somewhat depleted by a past dance with chemo and radiation. No whining, it just is what it is. For the actual dropping and lifting moments in and out, I'd need a second set of hands, which aren't readily available to me, but I can probably drum up someone for that. The guy I can probably get to help me for an hour to drop and a hour to get it back up to the car doesn't know a lug nut from a steering wheel, but I suppose he really doesn't need to.

I'd be much more willing to do it myself if I could do it on my four post lift. If any one knows for sure if this can or can't be done, please let me know.

It drops straight down, the widest part of the engine is up around the plenums and the cam covers. If it will be able to drop down between the rails on your lift, you can lower it down onto the top of a lower tool cabinet, finish disconnecting the trans mounts and the motor mount and then raise the body back up enough to clear the engine.

I did mine the third world way--adlibing as I went. If I were in worse shape and had a lift, I'd probably scan craigslist for a Mexican guy to do the heavy work. There are some really competent Mexican Mechanics that don't charge an arm and first born to work for you. At least here in Tucson there are. Having a helper would be as good as having a lift.

[seningen]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I appreciate all the input guys. This is one of those frustrating damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. The car just isn't worth enough to sink a significant amount of money into. As mentioned above, at some point that's not real difficult to reach, it's cheaper to just scrap it and buy another complete car. Yet, it's worth just enough that it's financially painful to just scrap it.

The problem is the darned labor - at my age I just don't have it in me anymore to pull the engine alone. I would have to pay to have it done. Am I wrong in assuming that it's probably $1K to $2K just in labor for an engine swap? Once the cost of either a head repair or a used engine is tossed in, you're looking at $4K at best, or $7K and up at worst for repair this car, and that's about what it's worth. Again, I'm not trying to make money off this car, but to me it's just foolish to put a repair into a car that costs equal or more to the value of that car.

I'm thinking that as suggested I'll go speak to a indy shop about diagnosing the issue, even though I can't see what else it could possibly be now other than a cracked head. I'll place a mutually agreed upon cap on the cost of the diagnosis. If they reach that cap without a diagnosis then we stop and the car gets driven as is 'till it dies and gets scrapped. There's no water in the oil at all, it may very well run for years this way, who knows.....It runs fantastically, that's the infuriating part of this. It runs strong and it doesn't overheat at all. I drove it all day long the other day in 85 degree temps and it never budged off the 180 degree mark on the temp gauge and ran perfectly.

Other than a cracked head, does anyone have any other possible causes of the intermix they can think of that I can check out on my own that can cause this? This is just so disappointing, as I do like this car.

Lastly, can anyone suggest a competent, reasonably priced Indy shop in the Houston area?

Your estimates above are pretty close (maybe a bit low).

One other source of intermix is one you really don't want to see, and that's a cracked cylinder liner. That's toss the block time. Yes it can be fixed -- but sleeving the block is way too expensive.

If you are going to keep the car and the intermix has been happening for awhile, if there is coolant in the oil -- your bearings will be chemically attacked by the anti-freeze. You can read all I did to my old Boxster S at Lone Star Refurbished Porsche Motorworks

I have a nearly complete 2001 S engine -- but I've got so much money into it, I can't sell it.

Mike

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by seningen

Your estimates above are pretty close (maybe a bit low).

One other source of intermix is one you really don't want to see, and that's a cracked cylinder liner. That's toss the block time. Yes it can be fixed -- but sleeving the block is way too expensive.

If you are going to keep the car and the intermix has been happening for awhile, if there is coolant in the oil -- your bearings will be chemically attacked by the anti-freeze. You can read all I did to my old Boxster S at Lone Star Refurbished Porsche Motorworks

I have a nearly complete 2001 S engine -- but I've got so much money into it, I can't sell it.

Mike

Mike - is the shop you posted the link to your shop, or a shop that you've used? I can easily get the car to Austin if they're good and reasonably priced. The car runs flawlessly as it sits and doesn't overheat. I wouldn't hesitate to get in it right now and drive it on the highway for a couple of hours. There is ZERO water in the oil.

[seningen]

Originally Posted by Doug427

Mike - is the shop you posted the link to your shop, or a shop that you've used? I can easily get the car to Austin if they're good and reasonably priced. The car runs flawlessly as it sits and doesn't overheat. I wouldn't hesitate to get in it right now and drive it on the highway for a couple of hours. There is ZERO water in the oil.

It’s my buddy’s shop, Danny at Silent Automotive.
We partnered up for a few years, but my real job took off, so I do less wrenching and focus on driving. He still does the wrenching I don’t have time for.

He’s reasonably priced, very good, but takes his time.

Text Danny at 512-366-0627

Mike

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by seningen

It’s my buddy’s shop, Danny at Silent Automotive.
We partnered up for a few years, but my real job took off, so I do less wrenching and focus on driving. He still does the wrenching I don’t have time for.

He’s reasonably priced, very good, but takes his time.

Text Danny at 512-366-0627

Mike

I'll text him now Mike. Taking his time is no issue, I'm in no rush.

Thanks