Intermix is not the oil cooler - now what?

[seningen]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I'm reasonably confident I got it right. I was super careful. As for flushing - it went sort of like this. Completely drain the system - remove drain plug, disconnect two main radiator tube hoses and heater hoses back by the engine, drain thoroughly. Heater core valve was opened prior to all this. Run garden hose through all hoses, in both directions, until water runs clear. Hook everything up, fill with water using vacuum fill tube. Bring car up to temp, drive it for about one hour. Bring home, and do it all again as described above.

Next day, bring car up to temp, and drive again for another hour. Drain and flush again as above. Refill with water and Prestone flush with oil degreaser. Again, filled with vacuum refill tool, as always. Bring to temp and drive multiple times for about 90 min total. Completely drain and flush with clean water until all runs clear. Refill using vacuum refill tool with distilled water and pink coolant, 50/50 mix.

I thought I was done. I guess not.......

It’s likely a crack in the head right around the spark plug.
As the head heats up the crack expands and the oil pressure is
greater than the water pressure and thus you can have a one way intermix.

Mike

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I have a very complete set of tools, and even a 4 post lift at home. .

Doug, I used one of these to remove the gearbox and also to lower the engine to seal a leaking cam cover (using jack stands..)

https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-60438.html

I believe that you can easily position this table (or something similar) between the ramps on the lift and once you remove the mounts, harness, hoses, etc., you can raise the car and leave the engine/gearbox laying on the table.

I really wish I had a lift..

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by seningen

It’s my buddy’s shop, Danny at Silent Automotive.
We partnered up for a few years, but my real job took off, so I do less wrenching and focus on driving. He still does the wrenching I don’t have time for.

He’s reasonably priced, very good, but takes his time.

Text Danny at 512-366-0627

Mike

I'll text him now Mike. Taking his time is no issue, I'm in no rush.

Thanks

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by Gilles

Doug, I used one of these to remove the gearbox and also to lower the engine to seal a leaking cam cover (using jack stands..)

https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-60438.html

I believe that you can easily position this table (or something similar) between the ramps on the lift and once you remove the mounts, harness, hoses, etc., you can raise the car and leave the engine/gearbox laying on the table.

I really wish I had a lift..

I guess it all comes down to if the engine will fit between the ramps on the lift. Thanks for the heads up.

[Geof3]

Doug, here is what I would do... double check your oil cooler install. Maybe the one you bought is bad (happens) or, maybe you pinched or even dropped an o-ring. Did you use new O-Rings? While considering the worse case scenario is valid, you are nowhere near having all the facts yet. If, it winds up you have a cracked head, and an entire engine replacement is the way you decide to go (other than fixing) then I would drive it till it dies. Might leave you stranded one day, but then again any car at anytime could as well. It cost me nearly 4 K to put a motor in my daughters old (98) Subaru, I did not do it. You can drop in a motor for not a ton more...

[itsnotanova]

I've removed 50+ boxster motors using a 4 post lift. For 10-15 of those I removed the drive train out the back and kind of used the four post like a two post. I've since notched the ramps on my four post so the motor can come out through the middle.

[Doug427]

Thanks, Woody. If I replace the motor it'll most likely come from you. When I pick it up I'll have to take a look at what you did. Thanks so much, as always!

[Brian in Tucson]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I hate to say it, Brian, but it's looking more and more like this is the only answer - do it myself. I can't tell you how much I DON'T want to do this. I still love tinkering with cars, but my heavy work job days are well past me. I used to swap engines in my younger days on a moments notice, but that was American muscle cars and front engine cars. This is my first mid engine car that drops out the bottom, and I'm not looking forward to that at all. If this were one of my old Corvettes or my current Cobra, the engine would be out already. I have a very complete set of tools, and even a 4 post lift at home. I'm not home now, I'm traveling for work, so I can't look, but my question is has anyone dropped an engine out of a Boxster on a 4 post lift? Will the engine fit down through the two main ramps that the car sits on? If it will, then this is instantly a much more palatable job.

Laying on my back doing this is a much different picture. My 60 year old body has a bad back that I deal with daily, and my energy level is somewhat depleted by a past dance with chemo and radiation. No whining, it just is what it is. For the actual dropping and lifting moments in and out, I'd need a second set of hands, which aren't readily available to me, but I can probably drum up someone for that. The guy I can probably get to help me for an hour to drop and a hour to get it back up to the car doesn't know a lug nut from a steering wheel, but I suppose he really doesn't need to.

I'd be much more willing to do it myself if I could do it on my four post lift. If any one knows for sure if this can or can't be done, please let me know.

It drops straight down, the widest part of the engine is up around the plenums and the cam covers. If it will be able to drop down between the rails on your lift, you can lower it down onto the top of a lower tool cabinet, finish disconnecting the trans mounts and the motor mount and then raise the body back up enough to clear the engine.

I did mine the third world way--adlibing as I went. If I were in worse shape and had a lift, I'd probably scan craigslist for a Mexican guy to do the heavy work. There are some really competent Mexican Mechanics that don't charge an arm and first born to work for you. At least here in Tucson there are. Having a helper would be as good as having a lift.

[itsnotanova]

Originally Posted by Doug427

Thanks, Woody. If I replace the motor it'll most likely come from you. When I pick it up I'll have to take a look at what you did. Thanks so much, as always!

I don't have any nice one's right now. The best i have is one with 109k for $2500. Brad Roberts out of California has one for $4000 shipped. I don't know the info on it but just the fact that he's had his hands on it says a lot. He's in my top five best porsche mechanic's in the country. The guy knows his stuff.

[Brian in Tucson]

Try 20th St. Auto in Phoenix, they part out Porsches and have been good to me (tho I've never bought anything mechanical from them.) They do ship. (602) 258-2020 My local favorite indie shop swears by them.

[Doug427]

I'm trying to take my time thinking this through. Here's where I'm at. There's no choice other than to eventually take the engine out. That job is the sticking point, but either repair or replace, the engine has to come out. My fear is that if I replace the engine with a used one, I really have no idea what I'm going to get. I haven't got much experience with this particular car as I only recently bought it, but I do believe the basic engine is very sound and solid.

The engine runs very strong, and in changing the oil I found that the old oil was clean and clear, there was no metal at all in the oil as it drained (I strained it as it drained, there was nothing), and in very, very closely inspecting the oil filter, there was no metal at all, either visually or after running a strong magnet through the entire filter.

I'm leaning now toward eventually removing the engine, then removing the heads and then sending them out for testing. It has to be one of them. I'll get the car looked at first to see if a qualified shop can make a positive diagnosis. Once I know which head it is, I can either replace the affected head with a good used one or send it out for repair. Any input on the repair vs. replace scenario would be greatly appreciated.

How difficult is it with the engine removed to remove and replace a head? I've poked around just a bit on the internet but haven't really seen a good how to on the subject, but I haven't done a real thorough search yet. If anyone has a good link, I'd appreciate you sending it along.

While it's out that would give me an opportunity to completely clean the engine, of course install a new IMS bearing and clutch, inspect the dual mass flywheel and replace if necessary, engine mounts and transmission mounts, engine oil separator, spark plugs and tube o-rings, etc. This also give me the opportunity to keep the original engine with the car. I know the "while you're in there" list can get long, I already intended to do most of this stuff, and actually have a good amount of it on hand already.

Taking the engine out is going to be a royal pain in the a$$, but either way it has to be done. In the mean time I can enjoy the car for a short while, as there is absolutely zero water in the oil, so until the real heat of summer hits I can take the car out for a spin with the wife once in a while, which is why I bought it in the first place.

Thoughts?

[Geof3]

Originally Posted by Doug427

I'm trying to take my time thinking this through. Here's where I'm at. There's no choice other than to eventually take the engine out. That job is the sticking point, but either repair or replace, the engine has to come out. My fear is that if I replace the engine with a used one, I really have no idea what I'm going to get. I haven't got much experience with this particular car as I only recently bought it, but I do believe the basic engine is very sound and solid.

The engine runs very strong, and in changing the oil I found that the old oil was clean and clear, there was no metal at all in the oil as it drained (I strained it as it drained, there was nothing), and in very, very closely inspecting the oil filter, there was no metal at all, either visually or after running a strong magnet through the entire filter.

I'm leaning now toward eventually removing the engine, then removing the heads and then sending them out for testing. It has to be one of them. I'll get the car looked at first to see if a qualified shop can make a positive diagnosis. Once I know which head it is, I can either replace the affected head with a good used one or send it out for repair. Any input on the repair vs. replace scenario would be greatly appreciated.

How difficult is it with the engine removed to remove and replace a head? I've poked around just a bit on the internet but haven't really seen a good how to on the subject, but I haven't done a real thorough search yet. If anyone has a good link, I'd appreciate you sending it along.

While it's out that would give me an opportunity to completely clean the engine, of course install a new IMS bearing and clutch, inspect the dual mass flywheel and replace if necessary, engine mounts and transmission mounts, engine oil separator, spark plugs and tube o-rings, etc. This also give me the opportunity to keep the original engine with the car. I know the "while you're in there" list can get long, I already intended to do most of this stuff, and actually have a good amount of it on hand already.

Taking the engine out is going to be a royal pain in the a$$, but either way it has to be done. In the mean time I can enjoy the car for a short while, as there is absolutely zero water in the oil, so until the real heat of summer hits I can take the car out for a spin with the wife once in a while, which is why I bought it in the first place.

Thoughts?

I still think you need to do the oil cooler check first, possible even replace again. Totally rule it out... You said it worked, then didn't... Get rid of all the easy stuff once and for all. Then do the painful stuff if necessary.

[NewArt]

Taking the engine out is not really as daunting a job as one might fear. Be methodical and document everything as you take it apart. I removed one with a tiptronic transmission still attached since I didn’t need to address the clutch, flywheel, etc.

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by Geof3

I still think you need to do the oil cooler check first, possible even replace again. Totally rule it out... You said it worked, then didn't... Get rid of all the easy stuff once and for all. Then do the painful stuff if necessary.

I will. I used new o-rings, and the install is really straight forward so I doubt I got it wrong, but you never know. Like you said, there's always the very small chance the new cooler is no good. I tested the old one after installing the new one. I filled the water side with soapy water, and pressurized the oil side. No bubbles. I'll do the same thing to this one, and see how it goes. I suspect all is well, but investing another hour or so to remove, test and replace, and $5 for new o-rings can't hurt. Thanks very much for all your input. I appreciate it.

[Doug427]

Originally Posted by NewArt

Taking the engine out is not really as daunting a job as one might fear. Be methodical and document everything as you take it apart. I removed one with a tiptronic transmission still attached since I didn’t need to address the clutch, flywheel, etc.

In my younger, more energetic years it would have been done already. Of course Brian has me motivated, as we're similar ages and he did it without a lift. Finances are a powerful motivating factor as well.

I hope to have a chance to pick Woody's brain a bit to see exactly how he did it on a 4 post lift. I'd rather not cut the lift up for what I hope will be a one time job, and he mentioned that he had a secondary method of doing it was well. Woody, if you're reading this, I hope you don't mind a quick call sometime in the near future for a very brief tutorial as to how to go about this on a 4 post lift. I know you're a very busy guy, I'll be quick!

Does anyone know of a good tutorial for cylinder head removal and replacement?

Thanks again to all, your input is invaluable. I appreciate you all.

[Brian in Tucson]

Originally Posted by Doug427

In my younger, more energetic years it would have been done already. Of course Brian has me motivated, as we're similar ages and he did it without a lift. Finances are a powerful motivating factor as well.

I hope to have a chance to pick Woody's brain a bit to see exactly how he did it on a 4 post lift. I'd rather not cut the lift up for what I hope will be a one time job, and he mentioned that he had a secondary method of doing it was well. Woody, if you're reading this, I hope you don't mind a quick call sometime in the near future for a very brief tutorial as to how to go about this on a 4 post lift. I know you're a very busy guy, I'll be quick!

Does anyone know of a good tutorial for cylinder head removal and replacement?

Thanks again to all, your input is invaluable. I appreciate you all.

Taking the heads off and then putting them back on looks like a nightmare and maybe an exercise in herding cats. I elected to get a used engine so that I could avoid an engine rebuild. Getting all the rotating parts timed doesn't look easy. Woody's place is only 133 miles from Houston, why not run up there for a visit?

[seningen]

Originally Posted by Brian in Tucson

Taking the heads off and then putting them back on looks like a nightmare and maybe an exercise in herding cats. I elected to get a used engine so that I could avoid an engine rebuild. Getting all the rotating parts timed doesn't look easy. Woody's place is only 133 miles from Houston, why not run up there for a visit?

Without the cam holder tool, it’s likely impossible.

Mike

[Doug427]

I've been by Woody's place a few times for a bunch of parts - there's no better guy associated with these cars than Woody. He's been invaluable - not only as a source of good used parts, but sound honest advice as well. Unfortunately, as of now Woody doesn't have any real good low miles 3.2L "S" engines on hand, that's the word straight from him.

I've looked at a couple of articles on R&R-ing the heads. It looks like a real pain in the a$$, but not un-doable. Doesn't look any worse than pulling the engine in the first place. There might be some tool purchasing or fabrication needed, but it can certainly be done. The plan is to put the engine on a good quality rotating engine stand, put some Stevie Ray Vaughan on the garage stereo, and go at it very slowly and methodically. The best advice I have gotten so far (and I appreciate ALL the advice you guys have given, believe me) came from Brian, who said take your time, do it a bit at a time, there's no rush to finish. That's exactly what I plan to do.

[Geof3]

I rebuilt a 911 3.0 a bunch of years ago, to include hand lapping the valves... no small task that build. Given what I’ve seen of the 3.2 M-96 rebuilding it is a whole other animal. At least get the proper tools to give yourself a more fighting chance! Jake Rabi offers a course in rebuilding the M96, might be worth a look.

[Doug427]

I'm not planning a whole rebuild, with spliting the case and dealing with rods, bearings crank, pistons, etc. I'm just taking off the heads, sending them out, then reinstalling them. It's a pretty straight forward R&R as far as I can tell, the tricky part is maintaining the timing chain position to keep the engine valvetrain in time, or putting it back in time if they slip. That's going to be the biggest task as best I can tell.