Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2018, 07:49 PM   #1
1997, PCA Riverside
 
rexcramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 1,079
Garage
4 stages of IMS failure.

PCA video discussing bearing failure with Jake Raby.

https://www.pca.org/news/2018-03-27/four-stages-ims-bearing-failure
rexcramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 12:42 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 296
Garage
I just watched that too. My IMS failed on my 2004 at 52K miles. Porsche covered it just under the 10 year qualification for 90% of the repair. Since I had only purchased the car with 48K on it, my local mechanic that I had purchased the car from agreed to pay the 10% difference, and a clutch because the local Porsche dealer said I needed a new one. So I got a new engine, and a clutch at zero cost! 2 year unlimited warranty from PCNA with no mileage limitation. My mechanic had to fork out $3,270 bucks to cover the 10% difference. I posted that story on the forum, and Jack Raby said I should go out and buy a lottery ticket. A year after it was done I got a letter from the class action lawyers that said there was a mistake in the award. My stomach sank. 2 weeks later I got a second letter from the law firm that said they were mistaken and I was covered. Whew! Still purring like new now. I was lucky. Sorry for the long story, but I had to post this somewhat odd story. I know others have been less fortunate. Mitch
Blackcloud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 03:30 PM   #3
"50 Years of 550 Spyder"
 
10/10ths's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The Road
Posts: 784
Nice. It’s great hearing about these things from folks like you.

I’m late to the Porsche party, bought my 2004 in 2015 with 25k miles. I shipped her off to Jake Raby at Flat 6 and had the “IMS Solution” installed. 20,000 miles later, and I just drove her four hours through huge thunderstorms to our vacation hotel for Easter.

I freaking LOVE this car!!
__________________
550 SE #310---"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow."
10/10ths is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 04:37 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Finnegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 380
Grief, Anger, Denial, Bargaining?
__________________
'04 Midnight Blue Metallic 986
Finnegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 04:59 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Melville NY
Posts: 79
IMS Faliure

I am the second owner of a pristine 2003 S with 44k, original IMS bearing and all work records from Porsche of America. If my IMS bearing fails do I have a legal option ?
Leebherron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2018, 05:00 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcloud View Post
I just watched that too. My IMS failed on my 2004 at 52K miles. Porsche covered it just under the 10 year qualification for 90% of the repair. Since I had only purchased the car with 48K on it, my local mechanic that I had purchased the car from agreed to pay the 10% difference, and a clutch because the local Porsche dealer said I needed a new one. So I got a new engine, and a clutch at zero cost! 2 year unlimited warranty from PCNA with no mileage limitation. My mechanic had to fork out $3,270 bucks to cover the 10% difference. I posted that story on the forum, and Jack Raby said I should go out and buy a lottery ticket. A year after it was done I got a letter from the class action lawyers that said there was a mistake in the award. My stomach sank. 2 weeks later I got a second letter from the law firm that said they were mistaken and I was covered. Whew! Still purring like new now. I was lucky. Sorry for the long story, but I had to post this somewhat odd story. I know others have been less fortunate. Mitch
So, if my math is correct, it cost around $32700 for the replacement engine, in a 10 ear old car? That's insane and great that you didn't have to pay, but for that money you should have been able to upgrade to a 987, with very little chance of bearing failure.
linklaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 01:25 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leebherron View Post
I am the second owner of a pristine 2003 S with 44k, original IMS bearing and all work records from Porsche of America. If my IMS bearing fails do I have a legal option ?
No..........
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 03:08 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,339
Interestingly no one is talking about the Porsche IMSB solution in this forum. Why is that?


Smallblock454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 07:38 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454 View Post
Interestingly no one is talking about the Porsche IMSB solution in this forum. Why is that?


Probably because many here seem to be vastly more price oriented than value oriented.

Customers that want the IMS Solution want it because it is the only permanent retrofit, one that will live as long as the rest of the engine, and even then can be extracted and reused. Others eye's seem to glaze over once they hear that it will cost more than $50. Interestingly, we sell way more Solutions to 996 drivers than other LN options, and they paid a lot more for their cars than the 986. As Jake once commented, one of the biggest 986 problems is that they are selling too cheaply in the used car market, and their owners try to treat them accordingly.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein

Last edited by JFP in PA; 03-29-2018 at 07:47 AM.
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 10:01 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,236
I just watched the video. I've decided to drive my boxster like I stole it and take it to redline every time I drive it. I will not replace the IMS that came with the replacement motor put in the car in 2004 (Just before I bought it out of the Miami auction). And when the motor craters I'll sell it as a roller to a Spec racer or I'll put an LS1 in it.

I used to lose a lot of sleep over this IMS failure when I first got my car in 2004 and discovered it was a potential catastrophic issue. I'm over that now.
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 12:35 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Scituate MA
Posts: 831
Some of us don't have the extra money and some us will just replace when we do the clutch. Hey some could care less, and won't do it and be just fine. If that retrofit can go 75000 as LN puts on their warranty and a person does it with the clutch every 75k, I think I would need to do about three clutches to match the solution in price (1000 x3). I think my shop wanted 2500 for the solution. Considering most of these cars likely won't see 225k without a new motor (yeah some do) I think the retro is a pretty good value. Heck, what if something else goes kaput in the motor totally unrelated. I'll be pretty happy I just got the retro. 150k if you start at day 1. Still a lot of mileage.
I guess if the LN is as good as advertised, it should at least go 75k. Reading British magazines, some might think it's poor value to buy the LN and not the Vertex. Who the heck knows.
At least If Somebody wants to pull out and reuse, its probably cheap to do😜.
DWBOX2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 02:30 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWBOX2000 View Post
Some of us don't have the extra money and some us will just replace when we do the clutch. Hey some could care less, and won't do it and be just fine. If that retrofit can go 75000 as LN puts on their warranty and a person does it with the clutch every 75k, I think I would need to do about three clutches to match the solution in price (1000 x3). I think my shop wanted 2500 for the solution. Considering most of these cars likely won't see 225k without a new motor (yeah some do) I think the retro is a pretty good value. Heck, what if something else goes kaput in the motor totally unrelated. I'll be pretty happy I just got the retro. 150k if you start at day 1. Still a lot of mileage.
I guess if the LN is as good as advertised, it should at least go 75k. Reading British magazines, some might think it's poor value to buy the LN and not the Vertex. Who the heck knows.
At least If Somebody wants to pull out and reuse, its probably cheap to do��.
Only problem with your clutch logic is that we have customers over 100K, over 200K, and even over 250K miles on the original clutch, so not everyone will ever get around to doing the clutch. And just as a by-the-by all of the high mileage cars are retrofitted.

As for the Vertex unit, roller bearings are no stronger or longer lived than the ceramic hybrid ball bearings, have a limited installed base, and cost nearly the same as the LN kits ($600 vs $799 list).
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein

Last edited by JFP in PA; 03-29-2018 at 02:34 PM.
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 03:41 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Cambria, CA
Posts: 117
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454 View Post
Interestingly no one is talking about the Porsche IMSB solution in this forum. Why is that?


What is the cost for the Porsche "solution?"
dlud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 03:50 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlud View Post
What is the cost for the Porsche "solution?"
I don't know the prices in the US. Please take the part numbers from the photos and ask your local Porsche dealer.

Over here in Germany the Porsche IMSB set is less than the comparable LN IMSB, which has to be imported – so there are customs fees, taxes and shipping that don't have to be paid for the Porsche IMSB solution.

Also we have other manucfacturers for IMSB solutions Made in Germany which are less than the LN products. So from a price point the LN products are not attractive.

Last edited by Smallblock454; 03-29-2018 at 04:52 PM.
Smallblock454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 06:00 PM   #15
Lew
So Blessed!
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SE Georgia
Posts: 383
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
No..........
You answered NO, I am wondering why? Thanks!
__________________
Artic Silver Boxster S - Black Leather - Black Top - Convience Plus Package
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 06:08 PM   #16
Registered User
 
husker boxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew View Post
You answered NO, I am wondering why? Thanks!
There was a class action suit 6-7 yrs ago but that ship has sailed. The date to be included is long past. That was the chance to be part of the suit so Porsche will say 'you had your chance' if you'd try to sue them now.
__________________
PCA National HPDE Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2007 Cayman S - SOLD on Valentine's Day 2013
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green

Last edited by husker boxster; 03-30-2018 at 04:38 AM.
husker boxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2018, 07:09 PM   #17
1997, PCA Riverside
 
rexcramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 1,079
Garage
With a Tiptronic, you can put me in this category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
so not everyone will ever get around to doing the clutch.
rexcramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 05:05 AM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew View Post
You answered NO, I am wondering why? Thanks!
Porsche has settled the class legal action on the IMS, so that boat has left the pier for anyone that did not benefit from the settlement.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 06:28 AM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Scituate MA
Posts: 831
My clutch went at 50k. I agree clutches go at different times but don't some people go 250k with there original Ims bearing right? For those folks, bad value. Yeah, it's a better product (solution vs retro) and I would love to have one. At the time, based on my driving; the retro made more sense. Better value, depends on the person. I wouldn't state it's a definite. Don't know what the future holds not does anyone. If anyone knows that person, please have them contact me. I would love some stock tips. 😄. I guess we will disagree, either way thanks for all your contributions to the board.
DWBOX2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2018, 06:48 AM   #20
midlifechrisis
 
Drphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: south carolina
Posts: 108
a year ago I bought a stock base '97 with only 37,000 miles on it ( now has 42,000), flew to NYC and drove it home, could feel clutch did not feel same as my 2001S I had a few years before, and after a few months realized the hydraulics needed work , master cylinder was going and it looked like I had an RMS leak , slow but nonethe less there so I took it in for a clutch, and turns out the leak was the IMS not RMS, the rms was bone dry. - I was in stage1/2 of IMS failure- good thing I took it in when I did- I have no idea how much effect the previous drive had on this but how the HELLL do you burn up a flywheel and disc in 37k miles??? holys@** - - my last boxster is with its 3rd owner(bigjake) and is on the original IMS and clutch at what, Jake, about 125k miles?? This car is a dual row IMS with a less than 1% failure rate- it may be true that cars that sit a lot have more problems - IDK but, I now have a dual row LN IMS hybrid ceramic bearing- my mechanic has replaced hundreds of these and has never had one come back with a failure!. - so new dual mass fly wheel pressure plate disc and whole new hydraulic clutch upgrade new pipes lines slave and master cylinder and car drives like new- I guess I will put about 5k miles a year on it or so I should be good for 10 years if I keep it- its got 42k miles I guess as of today, guys all I can say is I would not hesitate if you don't know the history of a car and who and how they drove it, its a crap shoot it may last or not. but I would have done this myself didn't have time, paid $3700 for all that- way cheaper than a new motor!
Drphil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page