Looking to do buy a 2001 Boxster S - Some questions for the experts
 

Hey guys - I'm looking at buying a used 2001 Boxster S with about 120k on the clock. I met the seller earlier this week and gave it a test drive. It sounded great, and rode well - a little bumpy but I believe that's typical of a Boxster (the roads weren't great). I plan to do a PPI at a local shop that is good with Porsches tomorrow, but I'm curious if anyone has any other thoughts on things to watch out, price, etc.

The person is asking $8,500. Here are the specs:

1. Comes with paint-matched hard top

2. Soft top has a 6" rip (due to vandalism) in it that has been repaired (it looks like it would be water proof).

3. Front tires have been replaced - rears don't look to have much life left.

4. Headlights are a little yellow - not surprising givin the age of the car.

5. The seller has owned the car for 2 years, and unfortunately didn't have enough garage space so it sat outside (the rip in the top was from some person who ripped it with a knife) - so the paint looks a little sun faded as do the headlights. I believe it'll look much better after a proper clean, clay, polish, etc.

6. The autocheck report looks ok - the car had 4 owners (including the seller). It's always been in California, and was sold as a "Porsche Approved Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle" at 53,000 miles, and again at 54,224 miles (?). The CPO tag at 53k miles makes me feel good that it was treated well in it's early years - hoping the Carfax report shows the service history after that (the autocheck report shows only CA emissions tests) - specifically was hoping to know about the water pump and when it was last replaced.

7. Wheel center cap Porsche crests are missing from 2 of the wheels (he said this is the second time someone stole them).

A couple things to note:

1. I am aware of the IMS issues with these cars, but given the miles on this car - I'm guessing this one is fine? I was under the impression that IMS issues appear early, and if there is a bore alignment problem, they will come up often and repeat. With 120k miles, I'm guessing that it's fine? The mechanic who will do the PPI does plan to look at the oil filter and check for metal parts.

2. It's a tiptronic - my wife wants to drive this most of the time, and she hates stick - and we have some bad traffic around here. It seems like most Porsches are manual (and rightly so), but does that lower the sale price and/or resale value? I don't really care about resale value, but can I ask a lower price since it's auto? It doesn't seem like he's received much interest in it so far.

Also, how robust are the tiptronic transmissions? Do they break down often? I'm guessing they are expensive to fix when they do?

3. We plan to use this as a fun weekend/getaway car. Our "before kids - let's live life" car.

4. Might want to replace the top with a glass version - but I understand that that requires a full replacement of the top, frame and motors? That sounds like a PITA? What does everyone mean when they have to "karate chop" the back window? My test rive had the hard top on it, so I didn't get the privilege. New tops (with the plastic) aren't too expensive it seems $300 and can DIY?. I'm not too worried about it as it doesn't rain much in LA. To perhaps bring down my overall acquisition cost, I might sell the hard top as well since the car will sit in a garage when - I believe hard tops go for $1000-$1500?

5. Paint - again, it's a little faded and there are a number of rock chips on the front hood. I thought about getting a nice respay, then realized it would have to be the fenders, bumper and hood - and thought - well hell, might as well do the rest of the car. Has anybody done this in CA and curiuos how much it costs (gotta be less than a Coupe or Sedan)!

Any help, guidance or thoughts would be appreciated.

I would run it for free on mycarfax.com will tell you all the service history for free.just put in the Vin.i found out so much about my Boxtser on there.

Thanks so much - but how do you get a Carfax report for free? They are asking $39.99 for one report!

Just seen your in los angeles..I am 2.i have a great Porsche mechanic in the Glendale area.the shop is called HD Motorworks on san Fernando rd in glendale.just had them do some work on my boxster .replaced the fuel pump on my 98 and they just did a coolant flush on the 2002 .the owner worked at rusnak Porsche in Pasadena for 10 years before he opened his own shop three years ago.really great guy and realky knows his stuff.look up there reviews on Yelp all 5 star.

Its not carfax...its called mycarfax.com...and its free.if you want sent me the vin I will run it.but you can do it for free also

When you put in the vin its goingbto ask if you own the car just say yes.then click on service history.i found out my boxster had the water pump replaced.the clutch, coolant reservoir tank, power steering hoses, heads rebuilt.

Got it - thank you! Strange - It looks similar to Carfax.

Attached are the service records which I cobbled together from Autocheck and mycarfax. Service looks good to me with pretty regular visits to the local Porsche Dealer.

Does anyone see anything that stands out? Kinda tough for me to follow as I haven't looked at these very often.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517899162.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517899178.jpg

I would call Porsche of Irvine, assuming they still exist, and see if they have record of a clutch/mainseal/IMS being done. It would appear whomever owned it over the years at least did the minimum appropriately. The downside of the car fax stuff, is you don’t know what might have been done that wasn’t reported.

I thought of that - would they freely share that information if I just give them the VIN? And are clutch/IMS as big of issue on tiptronic? I was also under impression the PPI could vet the mainseal.

Possibly, if they have the info. There is no clutch on the tiptronic. It is called a torque converter and is completely different. Tip trans makes no difference with th IMS. Upside is, if you decide to do the IMS, you only do the RMS and IMS and don’t need to spend the $$$ for a clutch system. So overall, it would be a bit cheaper. If there is a leak at the trans/engine it is most likely the RMS. It could be the IMS bearing cover, but that is not usually the case.

Thanks Geof. Can you check the RMS on a simple PPI? I'm wondering if the IMS is really an issue on a 120k mile car? It seems IMS pop up early if there is an issue.

"Might want to replace the top with a glass version - but I understand that that requires a full replacement of the top, frame and motors? That sounds like a PITA? What does everyone mean when they have to "karate chop" the back window? My test rive had the hard top on it, so I didn't get the privilege. "

Replacing the top on a 2001 with the smaller glass rear window after market version, can be done as a straight replacement on the existing frame. Updating to the factory glass window top from the 2003-2004 models, requires the existing frame to be removed and replaced with the later 2003-2004 frame.
The Karate chop refers to the technique of helping the plastic window fold in the correct fashion when lowering the top by "chopping it with your hand". It has a tendency to kink and crumple in an irregular way at times, instead of folding straight across.
Most experienced owners will "throw in the towel" to make the window fold in a gentle curve, instead of the sharp kink without the towel. In cold climates and if the plastic window is brittle from old age, it can crack at the fold line from the sharpness of the fold. It also helps eliminate the crease the forms in the window if the top is left folded for a long period of time. You take an old towel and roll it up into a long tube. Then you place it into the folded area of the plastic window to make it to fold in a nice rounded arch, instead of a sharp kink.
There have been a few members that have replaced their tops as a DIY project. There are articles and posts on the forum and other sites on how it was done.
You can sell the hard top for about what it will cost to have the soft top replaced professionally.

The only thing I see is a Lien was reported not that long ago in 2016.i would make sure that lien is paid off and that he has the pink slip.when I was looking for my Boxster I ran into a couple cars where the person didnt tell me the car was not paid off till I seen it on the Mycarfax then they would say oh yeah well I have to pay it off with your money then you will get the pink slip in the mail.

I PMed you about my 2003 for sale with IMS replaced and new Tiptronic. Arctic silver really excellent body and interior.

Here is the listing on this site I am in LA too.

http://986forum.com/forums/boxsters-cayman-cars-sale-wanted/70681-2003-boxster-tip.html

Yes and no, you can certainly see if there is a leak, but can’t definitively diagnose as the trans needs to be removed to access. If there are signs of a leak then it is most likely the RMS. No way to tell on the IMS either. LN has a VIN lookup that might be worth while. Regarding whether or not to be concerned, the IMS is always a thought as it is a bearing. However, 1 in 10 are going to fail. If your RMS is showing a leak it is worthwhile to do the IMS at the same time.

Looking to do buy a 2001 Boxster S - Some questions for the experts
 

I have a 2001 Boxster S with 50k on the clock. Your car sounds like a decent price, but you could spend a little more and get a lower mile example that may have spent time in the garage and not outside. The top can be replaced for $1200 including labor, and around $400 for the parts alone. Good luck and if you buy, please post pics!


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AGREED. Why not look at one where all the work and then some is done already!!

http://986forum.com/forums/boxsters-cayman-cars-sale-wanted/70681-2003-boxster-tip.html

I think in most markets you can do better. This car has too many issues for me.

Owned 2, wonderful cars both.

Here is a very good 2003 Tiptronic with IMS and new Tiptronic, records, work done by TRE in Van Nuys. Perfect paint and interiors all records.......Love it but I have too many cars right now.



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That’s a beautiful car boxfix but I’m not a big fan of grey or silver.

I agree with you guys but this car has almost every service record documented - did you see my service record pictures? That indicates to me that the previous owners really looked after the car?


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Looking to do buy a 2001 Boxster S - Some questions for the experts
 

What “issues” are you seeing Mikefocke? This car has almost perfect service records? The fact it hasn’t (or I haven’t verified) that the IMs has been done?

I’m kind of confused - sure the top was vandalized but perhaps I’m less worried about that as I had a top to a TT cut as well (was done in a communal parking garage?). I’ve been focused on finding a car that has been serviced appropriately and at the right interval. Honestly - if IMS has been address great but I find it hard to pay up for one that has had it done - I find most that hAve has it done are incorporating the full value into their asking price.


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Odd. I called the dealership where the records show the car being serviced (and even sold!)....they had no records of the car! The guy wasn't the most polite - he seemed a bit annoyed I was bothering him with asking for service records - I'm sure he'd prefer I come in and buy a another car from them?

The car has a license plate frame from the dealers still on the car for godsake!

On the more paranoid end of the spectrum - is it possible to 'fake' records in mycarfax and autocheck?

Yes, I saw the list. I have a CarFax on mine and have records from TRE and have spoken to them. They did all the work after the Warranty was up.

I know there are too many silver Boxsters around!!!

My odyssey with this car reminds me of the time and money it takes to turn a decently well cared for Boxster into an excellent car. I won't bore you with details but I have exhausted my list of things to fix on this car. This Boxster is ready for someone to enjoy.

Why am I selling it? The plan was that this would be my wife's car. And I would drive it occasionally. I quickly found out I was too tall for it and could not get comfortable in the cockpit. She commutes on the 101 daily and did not like the rear visibility and how small she felt near trucks. She has a pristine Saab Aero turbo wagon that she loves and feels really comfortable in. We have 5 other cars and between the 2 of us we were not driving the Boxster much. It is such a nice car I feel it deserves a good home rather than sitting in our garage.

My daily driver is my stick shift Saab Aero wagon with 300HP or my 1973 Carrera RS tribute that has 260,00 miles on it. I fit in the 911 and revel in its power and lightweight and fun driving experience.

Sorry you don't like the color. PM me if you change your mind. It might cost you less in the long run.

Dick Lague

There is no way to know. Yes, its made it 120K miles but the IMS could fail tomorrow or it could never fail. Everyone has a different view on the risk and what the consequences might mean to them. Learn as much as you can about the IMS issue and then you'll have to make your own decision whether to replace the bearing or just drive it as-is.

If it bothers you, spend the money to replace the bearing and sleep well at night. If not, then take your chances but be prepared in case the worst case happens. Only you can decide what path is best for you.


Yes, generally tips will sell for less than a manual, but the seller will likely claim that they have already accounted for that aspect of the car in their asking price. If you think the car is worth less than the asking price, by all means, offer what you think is a fair price and see what the seller says. Don't be afraid to walk away. Boxster's are not quite a dime a dozen but they certainly aren't rare so if you miss out on this car, another is sure to come along soon.

The tip is reasonably robust and does not break down often but can be expensive if they do.


The top can be replaced with a glass version without replacing the frame and motors. Some owners fold the plastic window manually by pressing the middle of the plastic window so it folds nicely (thus called the karate chop). I never did this, i just let the top fold itself and never had a problem.

A replacement top runs $400-$800. Installation can run $400-$800. Replacing a soft top is a pretty good effort so be sure that you have the skills to do a good job before you take this on as a DIY project.


When it comes to car paint, it all depends on what you want and your budget. You say a "nice" respray. What does that mean? Nice to you might mean something completely different to me. In my experience, most paint shops that work on Porsche's on a regular basis will interpret that to mean a $6K-$8K paint job.

On the other hand, I know paint shops that will do a quick sand, re-spray, and clear for $3K. It will look good from 20 ft but won't fool anyone up close and they're not going to do hardly any body work so all of the wrinkles, dings, dents, and misaligned panels will stay that way. And it won't last forever. But its cheap and gets the job done.

I also know paint shops that will charge $10K+ and your paint will be nicer than anything coming out of the factory, will last forever, and the color will be 2 ft deep.

Or anything in between.

Define a budget and decide on what level of quality you want and then find a shop that can provide that level of quality at the price you're willing to pay.

Why was the 60K mile service (9/15/2011) performed at around 88,000 miles?

This is not unheard of. Some dealers have a policy that service/repair data is a personal record and so they don't want to share it with anyone except the owner.


Car repair record services are notoriously inaccurate. I don't know if they are subject to outright fraud on a regular basis but the data is often just plain wrong. Even more common is data that is missing - there could be many more repairs and even accidents that never show up on these reports.

Good thoughtful comment "the stone"

I find CarFax and like services don't provide much information and leave out much. Seems curious that the dealer provides no details of what was replaced or repaired. And I understand the dealer would not release records.

IMS and trans condition is important on a car of that mileage.

When I read the description of the car I just think of all the things that could be wrong if you are not 100% sure it was meticulously cared for. It was brought to the dealer a lot, but not proof the car is in good shape.

I know there are too many silver Boxsters around!!!


Never too many silver Boxsters. :cheers:

I think I'll get personalized plates: GRAYFOX

At 120K, add replacing the entire suspension in the future as its getting quite old. It's not inexpensive especially if you don't do the work yourself. Part alone are north of 3K if I recall correctly.

Well well...what an intro to owning a Porsche. LOL.

I had a pretty thorough PPI done yesterday on the vehicle - they cut open the oil filter as part of it. Came back pretty clean - no metal pieces in the filter. Also noted suspension is fine, though it creeks a bit when turning at maximums.

Couple annoyances: rear tires are cracking, which I already had noticed. That'll be a nice $500. Also, the driver side window drops when the door handle is pulled but goes back up immediately before the door is closed so it hits the convertible top - I think the switch that controls it might need replacing.

I had a 90k service done at 42k upon assuming ownership. My choice. So it may be a plus, may be a minus. It also could be they did the 90k (which adds a transmission service on a TIP car to what is done for a 60k IIRC) but documented it as a 60k.

But where is the 30k, the 90k and it may be it needs a 120k given that the 60k was 6.5 years ago, tires, top, etc which could be $3k or more. I spent that on my second Boxster in the first month.

Then there is the body, paint issues.

I still think if you look you can do better. Even if the initial cost is a bit more.

Maybe you're right mikefocke. I've been looking for a couple months now and I honestly haven't seen anything that is priced right. Maybe for a standard Boxer (this one is an S)? For example, there is base that is for sale in Arizona now - a red 2003 base with the IMS ceramic bearing installed and 75k miles - asking $12.4k.

I've negotiated this Boxster S down to $7.2k with the hard top (no one wants an auto transmission!) - I plan to sell the hard top ($1k?) so that brings my total cost down to $6.2? No IMS issues per the oil filter test. I'd love to have the IMS solution installed ($5k?) which is superior to the ceramic bearing - so I'd be close to the same place (~$12k), and I end up with a Boxer S instead of a base, but I have 30k more miles? I dunno how to weigh all the pros and cons. At the end of the day, I gotta value my time a bit more and just bite the bullet on one?

This car isn't exactly for me either - it's for my parents who will drive it around their retirement community and golf range. They'll likely put 5 miles a day on this, so miles aren't going to go up very quickly. Perhaps I'm a bit warped by being in California, but 120k miles doesn't seem super high to me (my wife's old car had 275k on it before we decided to get rid of it - it was still running great!).

Probably true for LA folks, who rarely deal with cold temps. For those who, like me, are in a colder climate, DO the chop. In cooler weather I've gone half way into the top-down process, then looked at the back window. Often as not it's started to fold with a sharp point somewhere in the middle which, when it's cold, has just gotta be hard on the vinyl. The "chop" eliminates this stress on the material.

LOL, can someone send me a video of this infamous chop? I still can't visualize it.

Here you go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C1nh03uOzQ

Words of wisdom I have heard forever:

"There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Boxster.

Buy the best Porsche you can afford."

this thread has my head spinning. Buying a car with lots known issues and then planning to put money into the car is not a good idea.

What happens when other things happen to a 120,000 mile Boxster. things like a window operators failing [very common] $300 plus $250 labor. Or a fuel leak in the fuel gauge cover.....another $300 [also common]. Or a set of O2 sensors ..... $400 and $300 for installation. Tires easy $1000.

New top $1600 easy.

Vacuum leaks are very common and will stop you from passing smog. Vacuum canisters fail, rubber vacuum lines fail .....all expensive to find and fix.

At 120,000 miles you have lots of rubber cooling hoses ready to fail. A/C leaks are likely at this mileage.

Then there is paint to fix the failed clearcoat. I have done lots of painting and there are HOURS of labor in doing a good job. Cleaning up that failed clearcoat is $5000+ in prep and painting.

So a $7500 Boxster becomes $13,000 Boxster for the things that are bad, or fail soon and making the paint decent.

I know I have been there on several cars.

Looking to do buy a 2001 Boxster S - Some questions for the experts
 

Thanks for your perspective boxfix. I completely agree with you - but I’m a little puzzled - why you think this car has “lots of known issues”? The major ones I’ve been worried about - RMS and IMS are currently not a problem. I paid $600 to one of the better shops in the area to get inspected and it came back with minor stuff back (like needs new rear tires).

The paint is not bubbling anywhere - I just said it looked a bit faded. The shop said that it would bounce back with a good polish.

The top got vandalized in front of the owners house - it happens.

The shop that did the PPI even said it was “a whole lot of car for the price”.

Not sure where you’re getting “a lot of know issues”? I agree with your statement - but I think I’m really getting this at a good deal not due to “problems” with the car - rather, no one looking for a Porsche wants it in automatic! The seller even asked me when I first met him “why are you looking at this - it’s auto” (I told him it’s for my parents). When he put it up for sale he didn’t include “tiptronic” or “auto” in the title and everyone was calling then passing once they found out it’s not a 5 or 6 Speed.



Maybe you are right. I just don’t see as much wrong with this as you? And I haven’t yet seen one of these selling that has had the IMS solution installed - the only permanent fix available to us and as a result, the only one I’m interested in doing!


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