I don't know what you guys are going on about with all this immobilizer talk, you're making it more complicated than it needs to be.
I've had an Audi engine running inside a Boxster on the Audi ECU. You need to get the immobilizer off the Audi ECU, this is done by putting it in boot mode (shorting out a pin on the ECU) and flashing a map on that has no immobilizer. Once that's taken care of, by passing the immobilizer on the car is a case of switching the immobilizer signal that comes from the body module to earth when the ignition is turned on, this I did through a relay, then the ECU will power up.
Ecsy, I think Wendo is trying to make a replacement as the factory one has other issues and it effects the window and lock operations,
I am just leaving it stock and turning off the imob on the Audi with a drive box as its a ME 7.1 so its simple,
thats providing my boxster imob module actually works as I havent tried it yet...
The storm passed, I'm back.
I had some research time and I think you have the best plan Rusty.
I am just a little concerned with the complexity in the Audi V8 machine itself.
The timing chain system in the flat six Porsche was kind of repelling to me.
The Audi is about the same design.
But The Audi does offer a lot.
What is going on with the Audi V8s?
I have read some light disappointment comments, no details, yet.
You must have had good reason for the 01 choice Rusty.
I ask because you have totally convinced me that you know this stuff.
Haha Wendo, Im just making it up as I go along LOL
back to the audi v8, the pre 04 are still timing belt driven and have much less issues,
also less horse power,
common issues are
oil/water cooler leaks ($100 part new)
pipe connecting water to oil cooler body is plastic and breaks, ($20 replacement alloy unit avail)
my motor has both issues hence it was cheap
reason for 01 choice,
actually it was chance, it came up cheap and seller just could not find a buyer so I offer a low price,
I found out later 01 motor has ME7.1 ECU which has immob that is easy defeated by a drive box through obd port,
also has 8 bolt flywheel which means a cheaper valeo kit can be used which is from a 30v v6 audi, this allows it all to bolt to the boxster trans,
this is the kit I have purchased,
earlier motors require custom flywheel or an s6 s8 flywheel which is much more expensive,
Cheers Russ...
Mr Rusty sir.
How much electrical is really involved in your Audi swap?
Engine control unit?
Programming?
Does it need its own immobilizer unit?
This is sounding more like a massive endeavor.
Is there a short sum of all this?
Can you advise a source to learn the electrical needs of the Audi?
I am planning an operational stand with cooling for engine testing before ever touching the car.
The Detroit engines can have stand alone control.
Are the Audi 8s really electrically heavy?
I was going to visit a VW Engineering facility here in Jacksonville Florida to see what they can share, or maybe direct me towards.
Thank you for your time.
I'm not Rusty, but let me throw a few thoughts in here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendo
...
Engine control unit?
The 7.1 and 7.1.1 version Bosch Motronic ECUs are very similar to the 7.2 that is in the 2000-2002 Boxsters. For these, it is mostly a matter of matching up the engine harness and Audi ECU to the existing harness on the Boxster. Wire-by-wire without any clear step by step guides, but lots of info online and in manuals that it can be deduced from.
You have a 1997-1999. It has an older version ECU (Motronic 5.2.2) and a cable throttle. That makes it even more challenging to swap a 40 Valve Audi V8 (roughly 2000 - early 2003), but easier for the 32 Valve ABZ engine. The ABZ is cheaper, less complicated, and more reliable. Same idea applies to using the Audi ECU that comes with the ABZ....
Quote:
Programming?
To run, no. To run well with no MIL, yes. If you use the Audi ECU, you can have a pro do the programming, or spend some time learing about Nefmoto or similar hack/tuning software.
Quote:
Does it need its own immobilizer unit?
2000 and prior US models, no. After that, the immobilizer can be bypassed or programmed out.
Quote:
This is sounding more like a massive endeavor.
Yes.
Quote:
Is there a short sum of all this?
No.
Quote:
Can you advise a source to learn the electrical needs of the Audi?
I am planning an operational stand with cooling for engine testing before ever touching the car.
The Detroit engines can have stand alone control.
Check out this dude...
Quote:
Are the Audi 8s really electrically heavy?
Relative to what? More than the Honda's I used to swap, less than some others I'm sure.
If you know Detroit, You will probably find Detroit easier. I know nothing about GM and Mopar engines, so the Audi is not more difficult for me to learn.
Pay attention to what Rusty said about flywheels. Most Audi V8s in this year range did not come with manual transmissions in the US. A 10-bolt flywheel and clutch arrangement for the ABZ is not as easy to find as the 8-bolt for the later engines.
If you want to use an Audi V8 engine, you can still use a Detroit throttle body and choose your own custom engine management package.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
Thank you Mr 78F350.
Your response was very powerful and equally valuable to me!
You may have given me enough education to begin a serious consideration in this project.
In the next coming weeks I should begin a progress portfolio with details to share with you and the others.
My original thoughts had me beginning the job after the first of the year, now maybe sooner.
I have a tuner tech I am going to visit this coming week.
Thank you.
OH! I build three custom homes with my F350 and sold The truck "regretfully" without a lost dime.
Drive safe and thanks again.
Hello, decided to go with the Audi V8.
One problem.
Ran into a low mileage 04 belt timed BFM V8.
Very clean, worth some mods.
But, crankshaft sensor comes in from the Audi transmission.
Looked at after market trigger wheel kits.
I think only the man above could position the stock sensor into the Boxster trans.
Can anybody point out what I am missing here?
Thanks.
... But, crankshaft sensor comes in from the Audi transmission. ... Can anybody point out what I am missing here?
Thanks.
***Edit: Read my follow-up in the next post, it isn't quite as simple as i thought...*** I am familiar with the AUX, ABZ, ART, and AWN engines, but I think this applies to all the 4.2L V8 belt-driven engines. The crankshaft sensor is just a Hall effect sensor and it is connected into the engine harness. It mounts externally to the transmission just below the 9 o'clock position (Left side) and sits about 1/2 inch back from the mating surface. It picks up a gap (2 tooth space) in the flex-plate or flywheel.
Audi refers to the crankshaft sensor as G-28 "engine speed sender". The ECU reads the signal as roughly 66 degrees BTDC. As long as you have the sensor and flywheel positioned to give that signal 66-67 degrees before TDC it should work.
One solution is to make a template to mark your transmission, then drill a hole and fabricate a mount (One guy doing a v8 swap to an A4 used JB weld and it did fine.).
Another solution that should work is to use an existing mounting point on the 5-speed transmission. The mounting hole is 45 degrees up from the mount on the Audi automatic transmission (ZF 5HP24). Eight bolts hold the flywheel on. At TDC the gap is just short of the 6 o'clock position (on my 32 valve ABZ engine. 2:30 on my 40 valve engine). Mounting it rotated one bolt hole clockwise moves that gap 45 degrees. The ECU doen't care where the gap is in relation to the shaft. It just needs that signal ~66 BTDC. I have not actually verified this with precision instruments to measure the positions, but eyeballing it looks very close.
Here's the stock mounting of the sensor:
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
The best advice I can give is not to blindly follow my advice.
Today I took a flywheel out of the box and tried out what I had suggested about mounting it 45 degrees off from the flex plate. What I learned is that the eight bolts are not uniformly spaced and that the flex plate and flywheel only fit one way. The other news was that the way that it fit is with the gap 45 degrees off from how the flex plate mounts (I have an S6 2.7 TT flywheel and clutch). The other-other news is that I can't quite make sense out of what I said about the crank sensor and 66 degrees before TDC. Looking at where my flex plate lined up, I don't see how it's physically 66 degrees from TDC.
Here's one of the places I got it from:
To see the whole document, search for "V8-5VEngine.pdf".
Next...
There are a few good detailed swaps on the audizine forum. 4Loops, Nollywood, and Bhusted really seem to know this stuff. Also "Silverd2" posts on a lot of the Audi forums and can be very helpful.
Here's a good thread you should read. Note the part about flywheel and spacer. It will be good to know if you need the spacer before you assemble and torque everything. Detailed V8 Swap: B5 A4 4.2L
Exactly what I found with my flywheel is noted in post 9 of that thread. The flex plate gap is about the 2:30 position at TDC. The Flywheel gap is at about the 4:00 position. Why? The answer is in post 11: It corresponds with the position of the mounting for the G28 sensor on the Automatic and the Manual being shifted from the 8:30 position to the 10:00 position. I think I read all that a year ago and forgot it.
So the answer to the original question about the crankshaft sensor is: Buy the right flywheel and use the existing mount on the manual transmission. Easy. (But check your sensor to see if it needs a spacer for clearance)
I like to figure this stuff out as I go. If I get stumped and need professional help, I'd probably seek it directly from Qmulus on this forum.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
Mr F78350, please sir, you are very helpful, extremely helpful.
I would never scorn you for trying to help.
You are offering me your time and knowledge, kindly and for free.
The only part I have trouble with is the free.
I will get this, with your help and my research.
Thank you for all so far.
I would be so lost, beyond recovery.
I will begin this weekend with your powerful catalyst.
Have a great day.
I will continue to read anything you post
Wendo.
I think I would be safe to guesstimate off the Audi photo for position of crank sensor.
I have put in a call to price out the flywheel, pressure plate and clutch about a week back.
Going from auto trans to manual I think will also change the angle.
I was interested in floor test running the engine.
I think my guesstimate should be safe.
I have never heard this engine fire.
Without that step the car stays left alone.
If I get a fire that I will seek the correct parts.
I will let you all know with project pictures if I get a run.
Thank you all again.
The flywheel I bought is good, but heavier than I expected it would be. Next time I'm going to give strong consideration to the lightweight single mass aluminum one by 034 Motorsports. I haven't checked enough to recommend it, but its about 15 pounds lighter and seems well designed.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
Mr 78, thats not a bad price for doing it right, with some advise to boot, thank you.
I have another issue now.
I have been told that the 2004 4.2L BFM will not even fire without the Audi auto tranny plugged in.
How are the mechanics getting around that?
I only planned to use the original controller.
I have been trying to make contact to a supplier of base ECU's with wire kits.
The engine schematics in the self study programs show no electrical connection to the transmission.
Maybe I need to order some literature, a must anyhow.
I was hoping to get a pop out of it for encouragement.
I need to read more build stories I think.
Thank much for the flywheel tip.
Drive safe.
I can't help you with any specifics on the BFM. There is a guy swapping one into an Audi on Motorgeek.com. It looks like he tested his engine outside the car.
Clipped from his thread:
Here's his build: 4.2l BFM help -- now build thread :: motorgeek.com
He hasn't posted to his thread lately, but he recently uploaded to YouTube. If I were working on a BFM swap, I'd try contacting him thru YouTube or his build thread.
Here's his YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQs9VViKhACy98rhDoIUP-w
From what I have read, it looks like the BFM will present some challenges, but should be a good engine if you work it out.
That's all I have for you today.
__________________ I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
OK!!
Got the beef today.
First, lost all faith in dealership mechanics.
Yes, they do deserve credit, but limited.
I found a down to earth tech finally.
All 4.2 ECU's are equal.
Flashing is the decider.
Having a tech flash for basic, to run old school smooth.
He told me the auto tranny missing may only cause an engine light.
So,
With Mr 78s help reminding me this had in fact been done.
I pushed forward.
My next stop in will have start up pictures and lets share this.
Thank you all for a fantastic forum.
Drive safe.
And Mr 78, all you have shared, along with others is going to be used, thanks again.
Wendo
My motor is now out and on the floor,
I flashed the imobiliser off using a drive box before I removed the motor so I should at least be able to get it to start,
I am going to fire it up on the floor also,
I need to find some time and update my thread haha
The best advice I can give is not to blindly follow my advice.
Today I took a flywheel out of the box and tried out what I had suggested about mounting it 45 degrees off from the flex plate. What I learned is that the eight bolts are not uniformly spaced and that the flex plate and flywheel only fit one way. The other news was that the way that it fit is with the gap 45 degrees off from how the flex plate mounts (I have an S6 2.7 TT flywheel and clutch). The other-other news is that I can't quite make sense out of what I said about the crank sensor and 66 degrees before TDC. Looking at where my flex plate lined up, I don't see how it's physically 66 degrees from TDC.
Here's one of the places I got it from:
To see the whole document, search for "V8-5VEngine.pdf".
Next...
There are a few good detailed swaps on the audizine forum. 4Loops, Nollywood, and Bhusted really seem to know this stuff. Also "Silverd2" posts on a lot of the Audi forums and can be very helpful.
Here's a good thread you should read. Note the part about flywheel and spacer. It will be good to know if you need the spacer before you assemble and torque everything. Detailed V8 Swap: B5 A4 4.2L
Exactly what I found with my flywheel is noted in post 9 of that thread. The flex plate gap is about the 2:30 position at TDC. The Flywheel gap is at about the 4:00 position. Why? The answer is in post 11: It corresponds with the position of the mounting for the G28 sensor on the Automatic and the Manual being shifted from the 8:30 position to the 10:00 position. I think I read all that a year ago and forgot it.
So the answer to the original question about the crankshaft sensor is: Buy the right flywheel and use the existing mount on the manual transmission. Easy. (But check your sensor to see if it needs a spacer for clearance)
I like to figure this stuff out as I go. If I get stumped and need professional help, I'd probably seek it directly from Qmulus on this forum.
yes using the correct flywheel is the answer,
I am using the Valeo v6 turbo single mass replacement flywheel and clutch, the clutch should hold up if I dont punish it too hard and I can always upgrade later, this was the most cost effective solution for me, this also means the crank angle sensor will locate in the correct position on the boxster trans no mods just have to measure the clearance from sensor to flywheel,
Cheers Russ...
Parts Car, car parts
Honda Del Sol(s)
"Hers"
My Original '99
The 78 F350
This
That
The S 2.5
Other
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