987 Engine Failure Help

[Flavor 987S]

As a side note, I'd add:

1) I see zero benefit for shifting (street driving) at redline on the 987S motor. Very little to gain in those final 200-400 RPM.

2) A 7,000 mile oil change interval it a bit too long. 5,000 would be better.

Hope Darkstormvx is back in action soon.

[husker boxster]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

As a side note, I'd add:

1) I see zero benefit for shifting (street driving) at redline on the 987S motor. Very little to gain in those final 200-400 RPM.

2) A 7,000 mile oil change interval it a bit too long. 5,000 would be better.

Hope Darkstormvx is back in action soon.

+1 on all 3 points.

I shift at 6K rpm when tracking my CSS and change the oil btwn 4-5K mi.

[darkstormvx]

Originally Posted by jcslocum

Pull the filter, cut it open and see where you are. Or let them do it while you are present. Re beer, these folks work for you. Specialist or not, you are the customer and don't accept whet they tell you as gospel. It's not personal,it business and as the customer you have rights. Be specific and if you BS meter is going off and. They are telling you something you don't like, then move the car to another shop. You car sounds like it has a catastrophic failure and there should be NO guessing about the root cause.

These are good to great shops, then there is the other types.

Yes I'm going to try and stop by there today after work and have them pull it while I'm there or do it myself. I just don't feel right not seeing it myself and having them do it.

Also I don't make a habit of hitting redline during street driving and I almost never hit the limiter. I believe I downshifted to 6th to 3rd at around 80-90 mph. When I got in gear I was in the middle of the red field, i think. I am not 100% on this because i know what an over rev sounds like and everything was normal. I then shifted to 4th right after. I didn't notice anything till I was cruising later at lower speeds.

When I purchased the car in 2008 porsche recommended like 15k or 20k intervals for oil changes. Naturally, after research, I went with a little less than half that so that's why I'm doing 7k right now, but I can always change. More concerned about this issue right now though.

[darkstormvx]

Ok, the shop hours are the same as my work schedule, making it difficult to be there when they pull the filter. So, I asked if they could take the filter out, cut it open and hold it for me till i can pick it up. Service writer claims, the tech advised I don't need to that since he's pretty sure its the IMS. I asked how the tech came to this conclusion and he said its based on the sound he is hearing.

They said they would do it if I really wanted to but they didn't want me to spend more money to have that done if I didn't need to.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by darkstormvx

Ok, the shop hours are the same as my work schedule, making it difficult to be there when they pull the filter. So, I asked if they could take the filter out, cut it open and hold it for me till i can pick it up. Service writer claims, the tech advised I don't need to that since he's pretty sure its the IMS. I asked how the tech came to this conclusion and he said its based on the sound he is hearing.

They said they would do it if I really wanted to but they didn't want me to spend more money to have that done if I didn't need to.

Very interesting, as well a questionable. When an IMS gets to the point of death, the immediate result is the engine jumps time, pistons hit valves, and worse follows; but the engine stops running forever. I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

You need to be under the car when the filter is pulled, otherwise I have no idea what your chosen shop is up to, but in my estimation, it ain't good.

[dsallean]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Very interesting, as well a questionable. When an IMS gets to the point of death, the immediate result is the engine jumps time, pistons hit valves, and worse follows; but the engine stops running forever. I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

You need to be under the car when the filter is pulled, otherwise I have no idea what your chosen shop is up to, but in my estimation, it ain't good.

Listen to the experts here on this forum. I am by no means one of them but JFP is. I found particles in my filter when performing an oil change on my 986 and I brought the car in to a pcar specialist for analysis. They dropped the oil pan and told me my IMS was bad and I needed a replacement engine. Seriously. After consulting this forum and the generous contributors I took the car back and drove it home. I pulled the transmission and the clutch/flywheel and got to the IMS. Imagine my surprise when I pulled out a pristine condition dual row IMS bearing. I won't be going back to that pcar specialist again.

[darkstormvx]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Very interesting, as well a questionable. When an IMS gets to the point of death, the immediate result is the engine jumps time, pistons hit valves, and worse follows; but the engine stops running forever. I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

You need to be under the car when the filter is pulled, otherwise I have no idea what your chosen shop is up to, but in my estimation, it ain't good.

Exactly what I thought JFP. It still starts and makes that tacking sound. This shop mostly deals with old folks that are willing to pay to have parts thrown at problems. I really needed your guys opinion on what he was telling me because it didn't make sense.

I'm going to take the car back, get it towed home and check it myself. The only other options near me for the next step are the Porsche dealership in VA beach and a specialty Porsche indy in Richmond, Lufteknic. I can do amateur DIY stuff but this is beyond me.

First thought was to ask you guys when I was on the side of the road. I always appreciate the help on this forum. I've done so much work myself just reading posts and articles.

[Mig]

I think you need to find a new shop.

Everything you've posted points to a situation where you no longer feel the shop has your best interest at heart and can't be trusted.

Nothing wrong with picking up your car and going elsewhere.

Good luck.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by darkstormvx

Exactly what I thought JFP. It still starts and makes that tacking sound. This shop mostly deals with old folks that are willing to pay to have parts thrown at problems. I really needed your guys opinion on what he was telling me because it didn't make sense.

I'm going to take the car back, get it towed home and check it myself. The only other options near me for the next step are the Porsche dealership in VA beach and a specialty Porsche indy in Richmond, Lufteknic. I can do amateur DIY stuff but this is beyond me.

First thought was to ask you guys when I was on the side of the road. I always appreciate the help on this forum. I've done so much work myself just reading posts and articles.

Check with your local PCA chapter for recommended shops in your area.

[78F350]

Reading this thread reminded me of BIGjake's "IMS failure" that turned out to be alternator and serpentine belt. BIGJakes (ims?) dilemma
Not to get darkstormvx's hopes up too much, but there are a few problems that will stop the engine, but not cause catastrophic damage. At >200K miles I can think of a few parts that could be worn out.
+1 for looking for another shop. Sounds like you know your area, but ask here if you haven't already looked:
Find your local mechanic/porsche specialist
And like others have mentioned or implied, If there is significant (metallic) debris in the filter, any attempt to repair the engine will not be cost effective. Once the IMSB has failed, you do not replace the IMSB.

[Cbonilla]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

Well mine had a failed IMS and I was able to drive it off to the side of the road. And then was able to start it up again. The horrible clatter convinced me to turn is off and wait for a two truck. In truth the damage was done in that first nanosecond

CB

[Cbonilla]

Originally Posted by darkstormvx

They haven't charged me anything yet. The 776.00 figure is to (diagnose) the problem by pulling the transmission,

That's an expensive first diagnostic step. Check to oil filter for metal contamination and then pull the pan. I'd actually skip the oil filter and just pull the pan to see how much metal is in it. If its bad don't even bother putting the pan back on.

When my IMS went there was a ton of oil under the car.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Cbonilla

Well mine had a failed IMS and I was able to drive it off to the side of the road. And then was able to start it up again. The horrible clatter convinced me to turn is off and wait for a two truck. In truth the damage was done in that first nanosecond

CB

Not to mince words, or belittle your loss, but I would say that if it still ran, yours was in the early stages of failure, but had not completely gone yet. Yes, your engine would have also been full of metal, but the valve train had to still be working. When the IMS totally fails, the crank and valve train go out of sync and this is what you find:



And believe me, these would not run, and one would not even turn over on the starter.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Cbonilla

When my IMS went there was a ton of oil under the car.

That sound like yours was more of a center bolt failure, which ultimately took out the bearing.

[Cbonilla]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

That sound like yours was more of a center bolt failure, which ultimately took out the bearing.

Could very well be, but the difference was just a matter of moments between first hearing the clatter of valves meeting pistons and getting to the side of the road and restarting the car only to continue hearing the clatter. Whether the bolt failed and caused the bearing to fail or the bearing failed is an academic question with no practical difference. And my shop did say that the pan was full of metal pieces

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Cbonilla

Could very well be, but the difference was just a matter of moments between first hearing the clatter of valves meeting pistons and getting to the side of the road and restarting the car only to continue hearing the clatter. Whether the bolt failed and caused the bearing to fail or the bearing failed is an academic question with no practical difference. And my shop did say that the pan was full of metal pieces

Normally, if there is such a thing with IMS failures, if there is substantial oil loss from inside the bell housing area, it is because of center bolt failure:



When this happens, oil seal is lost and the lack of centering and axial control of the entire IMS shaft simply beats the IMS bearing to death, which results in piston to valve contact, etc.

But by far, the most common comment we hear when one fails is. "there was a noise and it stopped running". Usually, that is the last time it runs.

[Cbonilla]

JFP -- far be it from me to teach you about the Boxster engine. That was just my experience. If the bearing fails, or the bolt fails, your engine is toast immediately. So for people like me, a distinction without a difference

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Cbonilla

JFP -- far be it from me to teach you about the Boxster engine. That was just my experience. If the bearing fails, or the bolt fails, your engine is toast immediately. So for people like me, a distinction without a difference

I understand your point fully as the ultimate end result is the same and to you and the rationale would sound like semantics; but for those of us that spend out days trying to keep these things from happening, it matters. For example, center bolt failures are exactly why I recommend against another poster trying to reuse the factory bolt, and why the better made aftermarket kits use a much larger center bolt without the under cut for the O-ring, which is where most bolt failures start.

[Jamesp]

The IMS bearing failed in my car, and the IMS bolt broke. The previous owner drove it a block on a neighborhood street to get it home while it sounded like marbles in a tin can, then shut it off. No valve to piston damage. The IMS drive chain did dig into the block a bit giving the block a distinctive hickey. A couple of grand in parts (just parts) later and another 250 in head work (from a friend) as well as a bit (quite a bit) of time spent rebuilding the mess and it's right as rain.

Check your oil filter for ferrous metal (bring a magnet) and if you find it, unless you are curious or a bear for punishment, the motor can not be economically rebuilt unless you are capable of doing it yourself. Even then parts are blisteringly expensive.

If you find metal shavings in the oil filter your best bet is to sell your car as a roller, or source a replacement engine.

[dghii]

Originally Posted by autumnman

1999 boxster. Brake pedal was sticking. Replaced vacuum booster but now brakes have no play at all. Just a slight touch and they lock?? But main problem now is that the brakes are sticking (not pedal) and preventing the car from moving at times?? Any suggestions.

Welcome.
Yes. Start a new thread so folks can find and help you with your problem.