987 Engine Failure Help

[jcslocum]

Pull the filter, cut it open and see where you are. Or let them do it while you are present. Re beer, these folks work for you. Specialist or not, you are the customer and don't accept whet they tell you as gospel. It's not personal,it business and as the customer you have rights. Be specific and if you BS meter is going off and. They are telling you something you don't like, then move the car to another shop. You car sounds like it has a catastrophic failure and there should be NO guessing about the root cause.

These are good to great shops, then there is the other types.

[husker boxster]

At this point, we have zero proof that it's catastrophic, just speculation. Let's gather and present some meaningful data before we get too far off the deep end.

[darkstormvx]

Originally Posted by jcslocum

Pull the filter, cut it open and see where you are. Or let them do it while you are present. Re beer, these folks work for you. Specialist or not, you are the customer and don't accept whet they tell you as gospel. It's not personal,it business and as the customer you have rights. Be specific and if you BS meter is going off and. They are telling you something you don't like, then move the car to another shop. You car sounds like it has a catastrophic failure and there should be NO guessing about the root cause.

These are good to great shops, then there is the other types.

Yes I'm going to try and stop by there today after work and have them pull it while I'm there or do it myself. I just don't feel right not seeing it myself and having them do it.

Also I don't make a habit of hitting redline during street driving and I almost never hit the limiter. I believe I downshifted to 6th to 3rd at around 80-90 mph. When I got in gear I was in the middle of the red field, i think. I am not 100% on this because i know what an over rev sounds like and everything was normal. I then shifted to 4th right after. I didn't notice anything till I was cruising later at lower speeds.

When I purchased the car in 2008 porsche recommended like 15k or 20k intervals for oil changes. Naturally, after research, I went with a little less than half that so that's why I'm doing 7k right now, but I can always change. More concerned about this issue right now though.

[darkstormvx]

Ok, the shop hours are the same as my work schedule, making it difficult to be there when they pull the filter. So, I asked if they could take the filter out, cut it open and hold it for me till i can pick it up. Service writer claims, the tech advised I don't need to that since he's pretty sure its the IMS. I asked how the tech came to this conclusion and he said its based on the sound he is hearing.

They said they would do it if I really wanted to but they didn't want me to spend more money to have that done if I didn't need to.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by darkstormvx

Ok, the shop hours are the same as my work schedule, making it difficult to be there when they pull the filter. So, I asked if they could take the filter out, cut it open and hold it for me till i can pick it up. Service writer claims, the tech advised I don't need to that since he's pretty sure its the IMS. I asked how the tech came to this conclusion and he said its based on the sound he is hearing.

They said they would do it if I really wanted to but they didn't want me to spend more money to have that done if I didn't need to.

Very interesting, as well a questionable. When an IMS gets to the point of death, the immediate result is the engine jumps time, pistons hit valves, and worse follows; but the engine stops running forever. I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

You need to be under the car when the filter is pulled, otherwise I have no idea what your chosen shop is up to, but in my estimation, it ain't good.

[dsallean]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Very interesting, as well a questionable. When an IMS gets to the point of death, the immediate result is the engine jumps time, pistons hit valves, and worse follows; but the engine stops running forever. I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

You need to be under the car when the filter is pulled, otherwise I have no idea what your chosen shop is up to, but in my estimation, it ain't good.

Listen to the experts here on this forum. I am by no means one of them but JFP is. I found particles in my filter when performing an oil change on my 986 and I brought the car in to a pcar specialist for analysis. They dropped the oil pan and told me my IMS was bad and I needed a replacement engine. Seriously. After consulting this forum and the generous contributors I took the car back and drove it home. I pulled the transmission and the clutch/flywheel and got to the IMS. Imagine my surprise when I pulled out a pristine condition dual row IMS bearing. I won't be going back to that pcar specialist again.

[darkstormvx]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Very interesting, as well a questionable. When an IMS gets to the point of death, the immediate result is the engine jumps time, pistons hit valves, and worse follows; but the engine stops running forever. I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

You need to be under the car when the filter is pulled, otherwise I have no idea what your chosen shop is up to, but in my estimation, it ain't good.

Exactly what I thought JFP. It still starts and makes that tacking sound. This shop mostly deals with old folks that are willing to pay to have parts thrown at problems. I really needed your guys opinion on what he was telling me because it didn't make sense.

I'm going to take the car back, get it towed home and check it myself. The only other options near me for the next step are the Porsche dealership in VA beach and a specialty Porsche indy in Richmond, Lufteknic. I can do amateur DIY stuff but this is beyond me.

First thought was to ask you guys when I was on the side of the road. I always appreciate the help on this forum. I've done so much work myself just reading posts and articles.

[Cbonilla]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I have never seen or heard of an IMS failure where the engine was able to make any sound once the IMS failed.

Well mine had a failed IMS and I was able to drive it off to the side of the road. And then was able to start it up again. The horrible clatter convinced me to turn is off and wait for a two truck. In truth the damage was done in that first nanosecond

CB

[autumnman]

1999 boxster. Brake pedal was sticking. Replaced vacuum booster but now brakes have no play at all. Just a slight touch and they lock?? But main problem now is that the brakes are sticking (not pedal) and preventing the car from moving at times?? Any suggestions.

[dghii]

Originally Posted by autumnman

1999 boxster. Brake pedal was sticking. Replaced vacuum booster but now brakes have no play at all. Just a slight touch and they lock?? But main problem now is that the brakes are sticking (not pedal) and preventing the car from moving at times?? Any suggestions.

Welcome.
Yes. Start a new thread so folks can find and help you with your problem.

[darkstormvx]

I told them to just put it on the lot so I can take it back. I'll be able to check the filter myself Friday and I'll post pics. After that I'll tow it home or to a new shop depending on what I find. I found a new porsche indy in the area with good reviews that I'm going to call.

I'm not sure when in 2005 the car was built and whether or not the IMS was of the newer design or not. It was built in Finland. That being said the sound was not a clatter but a consistent, reverberating tapping, which came from what felt like the upper part of the engine area.

[darkstormvx]

After getting my hands on the filter this is what I found.

Mostly not magnetic.... Copper/bronze colored. Deciding what my next step will be...

[darkstormvx]

By the way with 200,000 miles on it, if its toast is it worth it to do a rebuild or sell it and save up for a 2012-2014 981?

[jdraupp]

Is the mechanic that now thinks it's a rod bearing the same guy who wouldn't drop the filter because he "knew" it was the IMS?

[darkstormvx]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

Is the mechanic that now thinks it's a rod bearing the same guy who wouldn't drop the filter because he "knew" it was the IMS?

No, I had it towed to a another mechanic in the area. This guy was straight with me and very detailed. Its a porsche specific indy I found. After he saw the filter and checked the car he showed me that the sound was coming from the center of the engine and likely a bearing. He had a lot of blocks, cranks, parts and engines in the shop and was actually able to how me which part was likely damaged with parts from a engine he was rebuilding.

Still starts up but the end is inevitable.

He said he's never seen an IMS bearing go on any 2005 he's worked on. First thing he told me on the phone was he needs to check the filter. Soon as he saw me you should have seen his face, he was more distressed than I was to tell me the news.

[Flavor 987S]

As a side note, I'd add:

1) I see zero benefit for shifting (street driving) at redline on the 987S motor. Very little to gain in those final 200-400 RPM.

2) A 7,000 mile oil change interval it a bit too long. 5,000 would be better.

Hope Darkstormvx is back in action soon.

[husker boxster]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

As a side note, I'd add:

1) I see zero benefit for shifting (street driving) at redline on the 987S motor. Very little to gain in those final 200-400 RPM.

2) A 7,000 mile oil change interval it a bit too long. 5,000 would be better.

Hope Darkstormvx is back in action soon.

+1 on all 3 points.

I shift at 6K rpm when tracking my CSS and change the oil btwn 4-5K mi.

[Mig]

I think you need to find a new shop.

Everything you've posted points to a situation where you no longer feel the shop has your best interest at heart and can't be trusted.

Nothing wrong with picking up your car and going elsewhere.

Good luck.

[78F350]

Reading this thread reminded me of BIGjake's "IMS failure" that turned out to be alternator and serpentine belt. BIGJakes (ims?) dilemma
Not to get darkstormvx's hopes up too much, but there are a few problems that will stop the engine, but not cause catastrophic damage. At >200K miles I can think of a few parts that could be worn out.
+1 for looking for another shop. Sounds like you know your area, but ask here if you haven't already looked:
Find your local mechanic/porsche specialist
And like others have mentioned or implied, If there is significant (metallic) debris in the filter, any attempt to repair the engine will not be cost effective. Once the IMSB has failed, you do not replace the IMSB.

[ltusler]

Rod bearing?