718 sales poor
 

It's early days I guess, but this is not looking too good for the 718.

Porsche Boxster US car sales figures

As an aside, someone I know was actually offered the full price he paid for his 981, to trade in for a new 718 S. He said no. :D

I'm not sure 2 months is much of a sample size. And January - newest model outsold the previous 2 years....it's only Feb that the sales were off. Maybe in many areas, too much snow? Lots of cold?

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-deliveries-2016-sales-record-13310.html

Porsche is loving the sales results of the 718!

My concern with the 718 is not the car itself or its flat 4 engine. It is that the boxster now has a 4 clylinder engine while the 911 has a 6. Yes I know that the boxster s I bought in 2003 was a 3.2 liter engine when 911s came with larger 3.6s. But it was still fundamentally the same engine (and suffered from the same shortcomings). So for a substantial saving over the 911 you could buy a very similar product. Now they are fundamentally different, and I fear the boxster may be stigmatized. A Poorsche, if you will.

In what month did the 718 boxster go on sale? Are significant numbers of those early months' sales of prior year models? I have to assume that at least some are

I'd take a 718 in a heartbeat. I could care less if it's a 4cyl. I just wouldn't take the depreciation hit. I'll never buy new again.

Stigmatized? A fully kitted out Boxster is still going to cost over $100K....that's not a poor man's car. And while yes, you can certainly get one cheaper if you drop some of the bells and whistles, it still ain't cheap. And remember - the Cayman, possibly Porsche's best sports car, is even cheaper than the Boxster.

Price and competition
 

You can buy a new Corvette for a lot less money, for around the same money a superior car (IMHO) a GTR.....Boxsters should hit the market for about the same US dollars as a corvette .

While I like both the C7 and the Boxster/Caymen I would not cross shop the two. The GTR is also very different and at a base price of about $110k s more expensive than a Boxster.

I wouldn't drive an older 'vette if you gave it to me. Sampled several before I re-entered the Porsche world. Was actually negative about Porsche then based on my 914 experience and the lack of dealer service I had experienced (granted 1970-1972).

Vette: Huge ponderous feel. Too much power. Build quality and interior materials sub-par.

Boxster: I just fit and it felt right. I never felt any lack of HP.

But to prices. Why should we expect the current Boxster to be priced anything near what the older ones were? Nothing else is. Yes it is a shock to go to the configurator and see the $90k+ most would order. (Mine is $100k+.) But if you order a car with features similar to what came on a 2004 Boxster, the increase isn't that much beyond inflation. I think it is just we want more in our cars like navigation, fancy adjustable suspensions, electronic nannies, etc that our older cars didn't have.

It's a sports car and treat it as such when buying one new and you can avoid going above the base price by much. But you are right everyone wants all the extra which I argue add little to the overall expereince. The resale market seems to support that by generally giving little for all the extras.

I'm hoping to have an opportunity to try a 718 this spring. I'm still a little hung up about losing the 6 cal though.

Two comments here

1. With sales figures they can be misleading if you don't add cayman and boxster sales, oddly enough it seems there is a similar sized market for pre 2005 just boxsters as there is for post 2005 boxsters and cayman, it's like the cayman didn't really bring in many more customers just cannibalizes current sales a little, (although it did add a valuable option to the lineup).

2. At this point, adjusted for inflation a lot of our old boxster Ses have window stickers well above a modern boxsters ***with similar options** of course a new car with carbon ceramics is on up there but a car with a performance option or two, full leather, a few exclusive options. That'll come together from 1999 dollars when the S first went on sale to be usually more than a modern boxster S (or I guess due to the new marketing strategy of boxster above cayman, at least above the cayman S)

Don't have all the extras. Don't miss 'em. Top down and flat six howl are all I need

you could care less that the 718 is missing one of the things you love most about your car? The "guttaral yowl" of the flat six climbing from 3k to 6k RPM?

I haven't driven the VW'esque turbo 4's but by all reviews I read the heart of the engine is no more. Sounds like driving an electric car. Sure it's zippy but you might as well be driving a souped up bumper car at the carnival.

Have you looked at the performance specs of the 718? (2017 Porsche 718 Boxster S Sport Chrono PDK: 11.9 1/4 Mile time - Fastest Boxster Ever) I could care less about the growl and more about the finish line. Besides, I think Porsche has done a wonderful job tuning the 718 4cyl exhaust. I will admit the lower end Turbo torque will be some getting used to.

yes cars get faster with time. But they don't become more driver oriented because in order to capture that extra tenth of a second on each corner the car must take the driver out of more of the equation. And having been in a wide variety cars I can tell you the more involved over a lap the driver is the more exciting 9 in 10 drivers will be.
Part of that experience is the car letting you know its right there with you audibly and through feedback. Yet the newer the Porsche the more that is blunted.

Give me the Boxster Spyder with the 911S flat 6 engine even if the flat four T is faster over a lap. I doubt you would be able to tell which of the two was the faster lap if you drove both cars until you crossed the finished.
Your getting the flat 4 not because its faster, but because its cheaper to build and less likely to break down in-warranty. Making these levels of power reliably with flat 6 requires a lot more egineer noggin.

The flat 4 would feel much faster from what I've read.

However, I agree the spyder is the car I would want.

So where is the sweet spot? The Model T? Cars built in the 60's? 70's?

I don't agree that cars are taking the driver out of the equation - not completely anyways. Evolution is all around us - enhancements are made and sacrifices are made, but the offset is normally for the better.

I've had the opportunity to drive the 718 S a few times. Not just a road test but at a autocross track and at the Porsche Experience center in LA. The first was at a Porsche 718 playground event at Berkeley, Ca in Aug last year. I managed to be a passenger with a factory driver as well as drive several laps around the autocross track. I'm no aportscar writer and I do lack the ability to describe how the car handles but I can tell you that it's everything we've all read and then some. The power and torque output come to mind. The biggest disappointment is the exhaust tone. PSE or no PSE if you didn't see yourself going in to the Boxster you would have thought you were in a Subaru. This was a huge disappointment for me. In my opinion new buyers won't miss this missing link but previous owners will be disappointed. The 718's ran the tracks all day long and didn't see one break down. Seems to be very reliable.

At the Porsche Experience center one thing i noticed right away is the power of the 718 S. The 718 S actually kept up with the 911 on the straights and caught up quickly by the first turn. By the second lap he was asked to let me pass him. I tried to do the same on a 911 turbo. Well, you know the outcome on that one but I did manage to catch up to it towards several turns later.

Didn't I read somewhere some of the new "Enthusiast" Mustangs and Camaro's pump artificial noise through the radio into the cockpit to simulate a throatier exhaust note?

Perhaps That's next on the Porsche Options list! :D

I too have driven 718 S a couple times. I like everything about it expect the sound (there's a speaker between the seat that pipes in sound!!) and in some situations it had a bit of turbo lag which was exaggerated when the A/C was on.

It's already there, Porsche uses a speaker on the 718 to "enhance" engine sound. Not a new concept, BMW has been doing it for years including the M cars. The Mustang uses a tube from the intake to the firewall so it's more of an amplifier than fake, I think the Camaro might use a speaker though.

I'm big on sound, and not much on fake. Probably why everything except for my wife's minivan has some variety of exhaust system. My 986S has catless headers, secondary cat bypass pipes, and a sport exhaust, and while I'm positive the 718 could run circles around it, I bet mine sounds better.

I think BMW is already doing this.

I agree, I think previous owners are where they are suffering with the 718. Even my lowly 986 2.7 arguably has all the performance you need on the road, It's about the overall experience and grin factor, the sound a flat 6 makes is good for the soul. I'm in a Porsche club, and nobody in the club has bought a 718 yet, or intends to as far a I know. In Australia at least, I think the 718 is easily the most expensive 4 cylinder car you can buy, It's just not a premium device, engine wise. It will be interesting to see what the residuals are when people start to sell them used.

I think many owners in that Porsche club you mention would highly disagree! Porsche has a very strong history when it comes to 4 cylinder engines.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/technology/porsche-four-cylinder-flat-engine-history-12270.html

This is by far the cars biggest weakness. The 968 was a very good 4 cylinder, but no one wanted to pay that much for one. When I think 4 cylinder at most I think of my mothers Camry or of domestic economy cars, saturns and etc.

You can sell a 718 still because it is fast and stylish, but you can't expect a 4 cylinder motor to not devalue the car regardless of speed improvements.

I want one pretty bad and it makes the 981 look ugly by comparison in many aspects, (at this point I think 986 and 718 are the purest exterior designs) however I wouldn't pay a premium over a 981 gts to get a car that reminds me more of an Audi TT at most rather than a pocket Carrera gt.

BMW M2 - premium sport coupe - 4 cylinder engine. Mercedes AMG Cl45 - 4 cylinder engine. Alfa Romeo 4C - 4 cylinder engine. Yeah, those are some low-end, dowdy vehicles!

Seriously people, a 4-cylinder will devalue it? Yeah, just like water-cooled has devalued all those cars.....or power steering, or any number of 'silly' technological advances.

The depreciation curves between the 981 Spyder and the most optioned 781 S's will be night and day.

This is the sort of thing where I wish some car magazine would take an aircooled Porsche and let a factory pro drive the car and then give it to a weekend warrior. Note the spread between their lap times. Now take the latest flavor of the day water cooled Porsche and do the same test at the same track with a pro and amateur and note the spread as a % over the aircooled's spread. When the 996 first came around we saw weekend warriors coming within a second or two of the factory drivers. It would be very revealing to see how the 718 fares in that regard since the S is already as fast (if not faster) than the GT4.

How much of a sales success are these cars?

Yes the introduction of the new alpine and 4c and lotus proves small sports cars with a 4 can be great... but great sellers....?

This is my club, I've been a member for two years and know the other Boxster/Cayman owners well. I don't know anyone who has a 718 or intends to in the future, they're keeping their 981s rather than trading in.

http://www.pcv.com.au

What do you define 'success' by? These aren't Fords, they aren't going to fly off the shelf. But you weren't arguing success, you were arguing no one would take a 4 cylinder engine seriously. That is just wrong.

So far, Porsche is quite happy with the 718 sales - and expectations when the nicer weather rolls in we will see an uptick.

These are high end sports cars that appeal to a limited market. They aren't going to sell hundreds of thousands of these a year....

Why? Because they can't handle the extra power? They don't want to save a couple bucks in gas? They don't want to drop their insurance a bit?

Wow, this whole argument that the 4 cylinder engine is somehow going to hurt Porsche is silly. This feels like we are going back in time - you do know all Porsche's now have water cooled engines, right? Blasphemy!

I think it's a good car, I think it has a lot of merit. But let's be honest without the badge it would fail. It's worth less to most consumers, whatever improvements have been made don't outweigh the loss of the 6. It may still do well but for the same price as the last car it WILL sell less.... all else held equal of course.

My wife just bought a BMW M2; $49,000 plus tax and license for a European Delivery. Six cylinder, 6 speed MT and artificial sound piped in. The sound piped in is no big deal. I have listened for it and can't tell it over the exhaust note. IMHO, it is a great price for what she got. Apples to oranges from a Cayman or Boxster but I believe for the price she got a better deal.

The main reason is that it sounds rubbish compared to the 981. Not everyone cares about the sound, but a lot seem to. If the engine is the future, why not put it in the 911 as well?

This guy sums it up.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvMwsyhCnc

I think it will be the other way. The 718 will outsell all flat 6 Boxsters. And when they dump manual transmission it will sell as if it were only a paddle shift car from the start. The people who can buy these cars new, for the most part, are buying the badge status not the badge heritage.. In other words they don't know Steve McQueen from Steve Harvey.
But on the flip side unless its a limited production engine, and this is true of any water cooled Porsche, the car's depreciation will be severe. You'll be able to get a 718 cheap sooner than it took to buy a 986/987 cheap.

I thought they did that a couple years ago..

Well the 718 is a great car but it did loose that flat six sound that new buyers may not care about but stunned me after hearing it. But i find something so wrong with a 90k car with only 4 cylinders.. takes sometime getting use to i guess..

I think there is already a parallel to this. Anyone remember the Harley Davidson collaboration with interestingly enough Porsche developing the V Rod engine? This was a departure from the air cooled to water cooled engines and is a much superior engine. However the demographics did not change. The Baby boomers insisted on the traditional sound and quirks of the air cooled engine and would not touch the evolution. The V Rod now sells to a much younger demographic. This could be desirable to draw the younger crowd, but how many first time Porsche owners can afford an >$80k car especially one that is dinosaur powered. I suspect if they can afford that price they will buy a Tesla instead.
It will be also interesting to see what happens when the Corvette becomes mid engine next year.

North America sales YTD through March
 

It appear sales for the Boxster/Cayman are down based on recent figures. Sales through March are at 1,106 compared to 2016 at 1,494, down over 25%. Maybe there is a good reason for this? Transition to the new model?