Base Boxster vs. E46 330i ?
 

A friend asked me today, "How do you think the base Boxster compares against the E46 330ci in terms of a real-world sporty car?"

How would you respond?

I have had both and I wouldn't put them in the same class. The e46 is a nice car and definitely more utilitarian, but no comparison in handling and smile factor, IMO. I also had an e46 m3. I would compare it with a 911 but not a 986


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I happen to have both as my daily drivers, 02 330ci and 99 Boxster. The red car is my 85 635csi that is up for sale as I rarely drive it since buying the Boxster.

They are both fun but different. The 330ci is a larger, heavier and more comfortable car. HP is just a little more than the Boxster, but power comes on differently. The straight six has more low end grunt and nice smooth power. Although at 225 HP, it is not very quick by today's standards. It is also an automatic. With it you have more engine sound than exhaust. It handles great and has all the comforts I desire.

The Boxster is smaller and lighter. The engine does not have the low end torque of the BMW, but goes nicely if you wind it up. You hear less of the engine at lower revs and more of the sweet exhaust note. Of course the engine gets louder as you increase the revs. Not near as roomy inside but still comfortable. Both cars have similar features, traction control, antilock brakes... My Boxster is a 5 speed.

The Boxster is much more fun around town. I think the gearing is perfect for city traffic and just having fun. And I sometimes drive it as far as 5 hours in a day depending on where I need to go.

The 330ci is more comfortable for going longer distances and not as fun around town. It is still a sweet car to drive, just does not have that zippy factor.

I try to drive the Boxster at least 2 days a week and the 330ci the other 3. But, I mix that up depending on the weather or just a desire to drive one or the other. Both were cheap, $4750 for the 330ci and $4700 for the Boxster. Both needed a little work when I bought them, but that is expected with cheaper cars. They are not perfect, but in pretty nice shape. I consider myself lucky in regard to what I get to drive every day!

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If you are going to compare the Box to a Bimmer then I would say compare it to a Z3 or Z4 and not to a 4 seat sedan missing 2 doors.

both good cars, but hard to compare. I think an E46 is just about perfect for a daily driver, whereas the boxster is a good weekend car (the e46 is boring from a truly sporty driving experience, at least in stock form).

I have a 2000 BMW 328i and a boxster, so I clearly like both. I think the E46 is built better and with some (ok a good bit) of maintenance, they last forever.

I also have an E46 BMW and a Boxster S. The two cars are very difficult to compare as they were built to serve different purposes. The E46 is my daily driver and performs masterfully, it is rocksolid and perfect for the daily grind of commuting to work, dropping off the kids, and traveling. The E46 also provides a smile with the torque of the inline-6 (I have the 2.5 liter 325i) and the incredibley smooth manual gearbox.
The Boxster S, on the other hand, is an entirely different car and experience. The Boxster is a raw open-top sports car (especially the 986) that stirs emotions I didn't know existed until driving the Boxster, with the top down through open country rodes and twisties. I've always been a "car guy" and I've owned several sports cars through the years and in my opinion none compare to the Boxster driving experience.

Just for fun here's a pic of my E46:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1487029794.jpg

It is interesting how the driving experience of the two cars is perceived. I agree, I get more smiles from driving my Boxster than I would say I do in the 330ci. But I can't really say why. Is it because the Boxster is lower, the more nimble feel? Has BMW just smoothed off the rough edges of the 330ci to where you don't notice them while the Boxster is more raw? The 330ci has the same basic chassis other e46s, with a little more powerful engine and larger brakes.

I was a little surprised by the performance specs of the two. The 330ci is quicker to 60 than either a 2.5 or 2.7 boxster. 5.9sec vs 6.5 for the 2.7 Boxster. And the skid pad data is close, .89g for the BMW and .92g for the Boxster. The 330ci is 450lb heavier. I wonder how they might compare on various road courses? Would the Boxster win regardless or would the BMW prevail on less twisty tracks?

Comparing an S to an M3 is probably not quite fair as the M3 has almost 25% more HP at 333. I am curious if driving an M3 offers the same smiles as a Boxster?

I consider the 330ci coupe to be a "sporty" car. Much as I do a Mustang, Camaro, RX8..... It looks good, is reasonably powerful and has great handling. But, to each his own. :)

I think it depends on the car. I've driven a 3 series race car that makes my S feel like a big soft limo with absolutely bad brakes and no power. :D ;)

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Regards, Markus

Fact is, the BMW is just so common place now days. Stand on a street corner and you will see dozens go by. But how many Porsches will you see?

That exclusivity you get with the Porsche adds to the experience. It draws stares and smiles from passersby....it elevates the feeling you won't get in a common place BMW, making the Porsche simply "feel" better.

Depends where you live. Where i live minimum 5 a day. ;) 2 in the garage and approx. 3 on the streets on a 10 mile ride. And if i drive to Bietigheim or Stuttgart, i'll see much more. Porsches everywhere. :D So, to me a pretty common car. ;)

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1487113376.jpg

Regards, Markus

So what you are saying is in Germany, where they make theses things....the Germans prefer Porches over the boring old BMW. Proves the point, the Porsche is better! Good call Markus.

Well if you life in Germany, maybe it depends where you live.

If you life near Stuttgart or the Baden Württemberg area, people maybe prefer Mercedes and Porsche. If you life near Leipzig, people maybe prefer Porsche. If you life near Wolfsburg, people maybe prefer Volkswagen. If you life you life near Neckarsulm or Ingolstadt, people maybe prefer Audi. If you life near Köln, people maybe prefer Ford. If you life near Rüsselsheim, people maybe prefer Opel. And if you life near Munich or in Bavaria, people maybe prefer BMW. :D

But in the end i think the Porsche brand indeed has a special status as a sports car manufacturer.

Regards, Markus

lol, there is zero status in a 15 year old boxster. nobody stares or smiles. come on now.

Totally False. This forum is full of stories of people complimenting 15 year old Boxsters. Age doesn't matter - most people wouldn't have a clue these cars are 15 years old. Keep em looking good and the age doesn't show.

The Porsche badge on the front says a lot and draws attention.

If they aren't staring and smiling at you - that says more about you than me. Maybe get the polish out and make her look pretty.

My car looks fine. I live in an affluent area. Trust me, No one comments or compliments, from my 3tt to my 7tt to my boxster.

The headlights date the hell out I'd the car

I would say you are wrong. There is a status in every 15 year old Boxster. As we all know it's a housewifes or a hair dressers car. :D So isn't that a status? :D ;)

Besides that i don't know one hairdresser and no housewife in person driving a 986. Maybe they are all driving Mercedes SLK R170? :D

Also i think the sunny side up headlights are getting a revival. I see more and more cars (986 and 996) where owners go back to the sunny side up style with the orange elements.

Regards, Markus

Well good for you!

The headlights are an easy fix, and not even that expensive. Check out the forums, some really nice looking lights on here.

As for compliments, I've had a number and I know others who have as well. Driving though Toronto, yes, you will see lots of Porsches of all shapes/sizes - but you will see dozens and dozens of BMWs - they just blend into the background now. Assume your area is the same - a few Porsches but a ton of Audi's and BMWs.

In most parts of Canada and the US - Porsche is much more of a premium brand than a BMW.

That's called placebo effect.
A car drives no differently if people are or are not watching you.

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Just to interject with some reality:

* Porsche is the 24th best selling brand in Germany, right behind Suzuki and Smart car.
* In Germany, BMW outsells Porsche by a factor of 10 to 1.
* USA & China are Porsche's top markets.

2015 (Full Year) Germany: Best-Selling Car Brands

That's right...it's called the Ownership Experience. A car is more than just how it drives, its also how it looks and how it makes you feel. That is all part of owning a Porches.

Which goes back to my original point that owning a Porsche is far more exclusive than your average, run of the mill car, like the BMW is.

I just sold my E46 325i (premium and sport packages) last month. I used it as a spare car; mostly for hauling people around and for long work trips up and down thru California. My younger son is studying in Europe this year so I have his E53 X5 as a spare car and didn't need the E46 anymore.

The E46 was probably the best sedan in the world for its time but its still a sedan, not a sports car. The Boxster is much more fun to drive. I'd take a Boxster every day over the BMW.

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You're comparing a mundane saloon with a sports car, it's like comparing Usain Bolt with the guy down the gym. Both worthy but the BMW is ultimately driven by ****************************s in the outside lane who think they own the earth and the Porsches are, well they're not.

At least in the UK that is. People who own an E46 or any other BMW tbh are immediately known as a lane-hogging, no indicating self important dick and normally turn out to be just that. And if you happen to be unfortunate to own an M3 even more so.

Also to this guy above, why are you actually on this forum?

um, no. An E46 330ci will give a boxster a pretty good run for the money anywhere. And lets be real, porsche drivers aren't known to be brilliant. Both have plenty of bad stereotypes.

I'm on this forum for technical content. I'm not so delusional to think that anyone is impressed with my boxster, which can basically be purchased for the change found under the couch. I'm using it for a DE car, thats basically it. Its a decent looking, nice driving car, but I certainly don't fawn over it or think its anything tremendous.

sorry if this hurts your ego.

Wow....do you eat at the Cheesecake Factory much? Apparently you used all your spare change to buy the Boxster....maybe should have saved some and bought some manners. What a dink.

Takes a lot more than a forum troll to hurt my "ego" :D

And also your "change under the couch" is someone's life savings and what they've worked hard for, you'd do well to remember that. There's no real reason to come on an enthusiast forum and denounce the car to be "nothing tremendous"unless you're just looking to be a vapid troll and bait people.

As the old saying goes "if you've nothing nice to say, don't bother saying anything at all" :rolleyes:

No, I haven't been to cheesecake factory in a decade. What that has to do with the price of boxsters, i'm not sure.

Its a $5,000 car. Literally high school children can buy this car in cash with their babysitting money. I didn't think you guys would get so offended here.

Then again, you seem very obsessed with the "porsche" name and believe that you get stares and smiles, so I guess it cuts a bit deeper.

Oh jeez, its a figure of speech. I don't have any change under my couch cause I clean that sucker religiously. That said, we are talking about $5,000 to $7,000 vehicles here. Its just reality.

vapid troll...ouch that stings :rolleyes:

I think it depends on the boxster. I can see what you're saying if you want to generalize all 986 boxsters as really beat up, high mileage, poorly kept 97-99s. I'm not impressed by cars like that either. A really well kept, low mileage facelift S on the other hand still gets some looks IMO and isn't a 5-7k car.

Many opinions stated here and we all know about opinions... Sure our Boxster's are not worth a lot of money but don't make the mistake of using monetary worth as a valid measure of their "worth". As I've gotten older (hopefully wiser) I've found that folks who try to use price as a valid measurement of worth are really missing the mark.

As far as the headlights go, I for one really like their shape and the amber color. the shape is so unique. Nobody and I mean nobody else has them. Honestly, how cool is that. the way they flow meld with the shape of the car. C'mon you gotta love them. As far as the amber goes, as these cars age more people will respect their age and what they did for the turnaround and (I think) want to see them as they really were designed not made to look like something they just weren't meant to be when they were created.

Yeah, no I don't love the headlights. They are unattractive.

As for the "worth" argument. If a car possesses such wonderful characteristics, it will be in demand. If the car is both in possession of these wonderful characteristics and available at a low price, demand should be strong. Even with a high level of production, after so many years, if demand is very strong due to great characteristics, prices rise (see vintage ferraris, 993s, etc).

So, while the 986 is a nice driving, decent looking, and somewhat high quality vehicle, there are reasons that its value hasn't risen, be that looks, concerns regarding reliability, or perhaps lack of power.

I NEVER go out in the car and do not get a positive comment, especially when the spyder humps are on. My wifes 2016 BMW GT...different car as well as the 3 series I have owned. Porsche got their slogan right "there is no substitute". The look , handling, sound, smell, is like no other. Down side for me is people think that I have alot of money, which usually I paid way less than they did for their car or truck.

Comparing the BMW and the Porsche from a reliability standpoint, the BMW will start costing the owner thousands of dollars a year EVERY year after it turns about 7 years old if the owner addresses quick-wear suspension bushings and oil leaks and various other motor bits like coil packs.

I really thought I had experienced the worst when I bought my 9 year old boxster that had been driven hard and neglected, but that was not true. The CPO BMW 550i (2007, bought in 2009 with 15k on the odometer) was hands down the biggest money pit I have ever owned. The day it turned 5 years old and was out of CPO warrant it started costing me big bucks to drive daily. I'm sure Houston heat and humidity and crappy roads contributed, but still... ugh!

The first few years of Boxster ownership were brutal, but it's been smooth sailing since... oil changes and the odd repair here and there.

Do I hate BMWs? No. Amazing cars. Just do not own one outside of a bumper to bumper factory warranty scenario. They just do not make these cars to be dependable and long lasting like they used to make them in the 70s and 80s.

please. E46 parts cost about 50 to 75% less than porsche parts. They are stupid easy to work on. Once you do the common repairs, VCG, CCV, water pump, expansion tank, and thermostat, along with some vac lines and hoses, the car should be very reliable.

Bmw waterpump...$40
Porsche waterpump...$200

Why don't you just ignore the troll so he will get bored and go away?

Sorry to hear you had such bad luck with your Bimmer! But, it also kind of sounds like stealership maintenance. (that is an assumption of course)

A friend of mine took his immaculate e46 330ci in for new air bags recently. The stealership quoted him $700 to replace the front control arm bushings and windshield wipers. I don't know what they charge for wipers, but the bushings run around $150 for the parts. :)

I have driven BMWs for about 35 years. I have never replaced a coil pack yet. I recently had my 330ci suspension checked by my indi mechanic. No need to replace any bushings. It has 234K miles on it. Sure things wear out and need replacing. I recently replaced the alternator, $240 installed. PS pump, $80, did that myself. I do save a lot as I do most work myself.

In general, I am going to say good quality aftermarket parts for my BMW do cost less than comparable parts for my P car. But that is to be expected as the manufacturing runs are much larger for the BMW parts, driving down the cost. A P car is much more exclusive and parts are just typically going to be more expensive.

I know I will need to do struts and some bushings on my P car before too long. Not looking forward to that at $250 per corner just for the struts. But, that is simply the cost of ownership. And I am willing to pay that in order to drive a car I enjoy very, very much!

I consider a BMW to be a very, very reliable and long lasting car. Will my P car last as long with good maintenance? I hope so, but in reality, I doubt a P car motor will typically last as long as BMW straight 6. They are just different animals.

BTW, I drove my P car to work today. Mostly highway, just there and back. But I enjoyed it all the same. :) I am driving it tomorrow too!

But what fun is that? It can be quite fun and refreshing when these Cheesecake Factory eating know it alls come on here and try to show us how special they are.

I love how the car went from $15000 to $7000 to $5000.

I stand by my Dink comment!

Bottom line... Both are great cars. For a trip to the grocery store or visit to the dog park, take the Beemer. For a top-down romp in the canyons, take the Boxster. :D














Hey, it's a Boxster forum :)

I believe it was you who felt all special when someone commented on your boxster. Self esteem concerns? Who knows...

I paid $5k for a 99 boxster in good shape with a new clutch, LN Engineering bearing, whiz bang double din Kenwood unit, full fabspeed exhaust, 997 shifter, and a few other goodies. 106k miles. Maybe I got a great deal or maybe the cars are just plain cheap.

Also, dink in my world stands for: dual income, no kids. Perhaps you mean dick? or dork? or Douche? All three are acceptable, but dink doesn't appear to be insulting from my seats, so you may need to work harder.

I had an E46 330ci in the past. It required a few bushings, a crank case vent valve, and a valve cover gasket. Nothing else really beyond that. The Boxster is a whole order of magnitude more expensive than the BMW was to keep going. Brake parts, suspension parts, etc all have the same life span and are much more expensive than the BMW. Once you factor in the preventative maintenance required for the M96 it only widens the gap.

If you pop an engine on an E46, you can find a replacement for a few hundred dollars. The same event in the Boxster, only made more likely because of the weaknesses of the M96, spells certain death for the car.

However, the two cars aren't really comparable anyway. The BMW has four seats, the Boxster has a convertible top.

My daily driver is a 2009 BMW 135 M-Sport, so in some ways comparable to the E46, but with its own separate purpose than the Boxster.

If the M96 wasn't such a steaming pile I think Boxsters would be much more valuable than they are now.