Grand Prize of America track at Hutchnson Island, Savannah, GA
This past weekend we had a relatively rare experience on December 3, 2016 at the Grand Prize Of America Avenue Track in Savannah with Jzilla Track Days. Back in the mid 90s, a group of Savannah businessmen convinced the county to build a 1.965-mile road to serve as a 10-turn circuit - apparently the first time a public road had been pre-designed with the intention of also using it for racing in the US. Little to no runoff, bumpy, and lots of concrete walls, but a heck of a fun track to drive. It only held one Indy Lights race, the Dixie Crystals Grand Prix in 1997, before falling into disrepair. The full track now only sees use a few times a year for special events, vintage and historic races such as the Savannah Speed Classic. (Majority of the blurb lifted from Kevin Patrick of Exomotive)
Here is a satellite view of turn 8, you can see how it is part of a public roadway:
The course is owned by the Westin Resort and part of the deal for getting the track was that we had to rent a block of 25 rooms. I stayed offsite, but next year they are going to try and negotiate a better rate, and if so I might stay there. It looked very nice.
This picture does not convey the banking or the amount of concrete walls, barriers, and bumps in the worst possible places (on the clubhouse back straight and leading into the braking zone into turn 3 after all of the high speed banking).
The driver's meeting was conducted from the back of a pickup truck during a track walk of the 2 mile course so we could see all of these features for ourselves. They said that the track was very wide, but once you are off the track you are out of room. They said the dangerous spots were first entering into turn 1, and the barriers at the outside exits of turn 8 and turn 9. I took it easy there, and by the second session when I was familiar with the track, it turned out not be an issue (at least at the pace I was running). After the track walk there was a 30 minute warmup session for all cars, under standing yellow, for folks to get used to the track. This was black flagged after one lap because a Lemons car racer (the same yellow and black one you will see in my video later) had its front left wheel fall off as soon as it got on track for the first warmup lap... I never did find out why, but since it was back on the road shortly I am guessing they forgot to torque that wheel?
My run group had 7-8 challengers in it, including the "regular" Hemi V8, the big 492 V8, and even a Hellcat. 2-3 of these cars were driven by very fast drivers, and the rest were parked in the corners but roared away on the straights... I overheard the organizer talking with them at lunch and they all got better with point bys later in the day. Also in this video a mustang loses it and after a short tankslapper goes off in turn 8.
That phone sure blocks the view from the camera I have mounted on the roll bar, but when I'm driving the camera doesn't obstruct the view at all. I also recently changed the FOV on my Mobius and so it didn't pick up the oil temp and pressure gauges for these sessions. It was around 60 outside and the water stayed right on the 180 and the oil temp never got over 220 so it was all good.
Here is the final session of the day, a combined Blue (my run group) and Yellow (the next group up which contained the Yellow/black Lemons car and several of the other cars that were passing/being passed in this video). This view is from inside the car, so you can see some of the speeds and g-forces (depending on how trustworthy the accelerometers and algorithms in Harry's Lap Timer/Android BLU Amazon phone are).
Right after I passed that yellow and black lemons car, my fuel light came on the next lap, so I let off and that string of cars all passed me again... I never really did pull much distance on them. This session had my best lap of the day, a high 1:37 when I was chasing the yellow/black car (the same one that the wheel fell off of earlier in the day)
Here is a view of my car from another car that passed me, a Viper. You can see me in this video starting at 3:28, I am the tiny speck up ahead of the challenger that gets larger and larger until I am passed. In my "defense", I always take 2 warm up laps before getting on it, but it wouldn't have made any difference here as these guys were on fire. I lift to let the Challenger by in the short passing zone but can't get them both by so I stay out of it (no brakes into the next turn which is usually a hard brake) until the Viper is by as well.
Here is a photo that was taken by Danny Sawyer, one of the other drivers, and it is now my favorite photo of the car, this is heading into turn 8 after the back clubhouse straight, and the suspension is heavily compressed and my front left tire only has a tiny bit touching the ground.
If they run this event next year I will probably be back. It was a lot of fun
I had one freak out moment during the weekend, when driving on the course I heard this horrible metallic screeching. Turn up the volume and see if you can hear it...
I first heard it around turn 5, 6, and 7, but then also heard it in the later turns. after much freaking out over possible wheel bearing failures, pending catastrophic engine destruction, etc.. I figured out that the metallic screeching was...
Wait for it...
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It was music being played over some sort of loudspeaker system....
Looks like fun. The videos make it look more fun than the track map.
Boy that Mustang was sure lucky! A few more feet further down the track and he'd be eating Armco.
Do you drive 'safer' with a passenger or does that thought go away when the red mist kicks in? She must have a cast iron stomach. I can't ride along on the track - I get motion sickness. Funny that it doesn't bother me driving.
__________________
GPRPCA Chief Driving Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green
1989 928 S4 5 spd - black
1987 928 S4 - Granite Green Metallic (Felsengrun)
Do you drive 'safer' with a passenger or does that thought go away when the red mist kicks in? She must have a cast iron stomach. I can't ride along on the track - I get motion sickness. Funny that it doesn't bother me driving.
I try to dial it back a little when I have a passenger (which is somewhat rare as I mostly run with PCA and they don't allow passengers). And also I am not exactly on the edge either so I am kind of dialed back all the time anyway unfortunately...
For this event they assigned me to the Yellow (middle) run group but when I checked in at the track I moved myself down to the lowest run group as I figured the pace might be a little easier and more comfortable for taking passengers.
My conservative/passenger mindset does go away a little when I am chasing someone like in these videos, but I still take it relatively easy. For example in my last session in the video above where I pass the yellow/black race car, once I got around all the cars, that first lap was really sloppy and I was feeling the pressure from the cars behind me since I was barely pulling away and so I decided to cool it down for a lap and let everybody back by. And then my fuel light came on so I came in.
I had 3 passengers that day: my son James (1 session with me and one in an Exocet with someone else, he likes it the 2nd most), Kathryn (stepdaughter, 2 sessions, she loves it the most out of all of them), Jordan (stepson, 2 sessions, he likes it somewhat). My wife Sheri stayed home, she doesn't hate riding along, but... well she kind of hates it. Last time my son James went with me he could only ride one session and then he was too queasy and spent the rest of the day sleeping on a tarp on the ground.
When I ride with an instructor in their car I am usually ok for 20 minutes, then it gets to be too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by husker boxster
Boy that Mustang was sure lucky! A few more feet further down the track and he'd be eating Armco.
Yes he was! It was pretty scary for me because that lighter colored challenger was right back on me due to being held up by the darker blue challenger and then we all had to majorly slow down, it isn't in the video but the lighter blue challenger shot to my right during the slowdown.
That mustang spun out a 2nd time later in the day (or maybe this was earlier, I'm not sure). Must have thought there were some pedestrians there
Looks like a fun, technical course. Nice seeing Challengers out getting some track time ... although not the ideal car for twisties My 392 Challenger (2014) is 4400lbs and 470 HP/TQ. Fun in a straight line... that dark blue one (Jazz Blue - the color of mine) must have been a relatively new driver... not sure I saw him hit many apexes.
Friend of mine takes his 392 out to High Plains Raceway out here. He turns roughly the same lap times I do in my stock '97 Boxster.
Looks like a fun, technical course. Nice seeing Challengers out getting some track time ... although not the ideal car for twisties My 392 Challenger (2014) is 4400lbs and 470 HP/TQ. Fun in a straight line...
Friend of mine takes his 392 out to High Plains Raceway out here. He turns roughly the same lap times I do in my stock '97 Boxster.
I guess I gave an upgrade when I called it the 492
I had a Challenger as a rental car once, with the "regular" V8 and it was freaking awesome. I will own one someday.
Out of the 7-8 challengers in my run group, there were 2 that blew by me and disappeared into the distance never to be seen again, 2 that I passed regularly, 1 that would pit in every time he had a train rather than let anyone by, and I never saw the rest so we were all running about the same times.
You should try one of the new SRT8s ... bumped up the HP by 15 to 485. I rented every one I could before buying mine. I found the SXTs (V6) to be a bit peppier than the 5.7L V8s (R/Ts). Then there's the Hellcat of course.
I enjoy both the Boxster and the Challenger as drivers, for very different driving experiences. I will be getting another Boxster as a driver (newer) once the 986 gets converted to Spec (should happen this winter).
I am afraid to, for the same reason I didn't catch a ride in an Exocet along with my son James, because if I do, then I will get all rowdy and want one.
I forgot to mention the Challenger... Did the corner workers not have any blue flags? It's always a crap shoot when you don't know someone on how close you should get to them to let them know you want by. Too close and you can spook them into a mistake, not close enough they think they can hold you off. The corner workers should have helped you out.
I had a session at Laguna Seca 2 yrs ago where I hounded a burgundy 911 the entire time. Because of letting faster traffic by, I would drop back but always catch back up to him. I didn't know him but thought I was close enough to him that he'd know I wanted by. We were parked close together in the paddock and after the session he came by to chat. Casually mentioned he wasn't sure if I wanted to pass. Duh! I made sure to grid ahead of him in future sessions. (Was going to add the vid but YT seems to be on the fritz right now.)
Was the Honda driver trying to be Chris Harris and drift or was he just that bad? If I was his passenger, I certainly wouldn't have been encouraging him. With a track that narrow and concrete barriers close by, I would have asked to get out after 1 lap. No need to kill 2 people.
__________________
GPRPCA Chief Driving Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green
1989 928 S4 5 spd - black
1987 928 S4 - Granite Green Metallic (Felsengrun)
I forgot to mention the Challenger... Did the corner workers not have any blue flags? It's always a crap shoot when you don't know someone on how close you should get to them to let them know you want by. Too close and you can spook them into a mistake, not close enough they think they can hold you off. The corner workers should have helped you out.
We went up on the hill after turn 3 and before turn 4 and chatted with that corner worker and watched cars, and he said they are golf course workers and the 3-4 times a year they have events, if the organizers don't bring their own workers, they come over and work the flag stations. The track manager at the beginning said they don't throw many blue flags as they prefer to let the drivers sort it out for themselves Next year if JZilla goes back I think they are going to hire some of the SCCA Buccaneer corner workers to run the event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by husker boxster
I had a session at Laguna Seca 2 yrs ago where I hounded a burgundy 911 the entire time. Because of letting faster traffic by, I would drop back but always catch back up to him. I didn't know him but thought I was close enough to him that he'd know I wanted by. We were parked close together in the paddock and after the session he came by to chat. Casually mentioned he wasn't sure if I wanted to pass. Duh! I made sure to grid ahead of him in future sessions. (Was going to add the vid but YT seems to be on the fritz right now.)
I feel your pain and please do post the video later when YT is back working, although I think I already saw it back when you first posted about it.
When I am in a train I am now where I can tell if the folks that catch up are faster than me and let them by, especially if they are higher HP cars, that can pressure the lead car to give a point by, and then I can sometimes slipstream on the coattails of the faster car
The slow folks at this event were so slow it didn't matter where you gridded, you were going to catch them, but the next day after this I went to Roebling with Coastal region PCA and there were several folks just like this: a White Cayman that only lets one car by at a time even when there is a huge train, and if they can pull away even a few car lengths at the start of a passing zone they don't want to give the point by.
There also was a 2014 Black Cayman S that had so much power that would rocket away at the start of each passing zone and never gave point bys.
Finally there was an older 911, a 1995 993 that after 2-3 laps would give a point by 1/3rd of the way down the straight and then not lift. This weekend I really focused on not backing off when catching slower traffic and was mostly successful. I also passed a lot of Miatas which was a lot of fun since usually it is the other way around... I will post about this track day in a day or two when I get a break from work.
Oddly this event none of the newer 911s gave me any trouble when I caught them, they have so much power that without a lift I would never get by.
That is my pet peeve though... When a car appears in the rear view mirror, it is because they are FASTER THAN YOU!! Point them by, don't leave them stuck behind for 2-3 laps while you "decide" whether they want to pass or whether they even really caught up with you
Quote:
Originally Posted by husker boxster
Was the Honda driver trying to be Chris Harris and drift or was he just that bad? If I was his passenger, I certainly wouldn't have been encouraging him. With a track that narrow and concrete barriers close by, I would have asked to get out after 1 lap. No need to kill 2 people.
I think he was trying to be a Chris Harris in this clip, the rest of the time he was really fast, at least the one time he shot by me and I never saw him again...
I had a session at Laguna Seca 2 yrs ago where I hounded a burgundy 911 the entire time. Because of letting faster traffic by, I would drop back but always catch back up to him. I didn't know him but thought I was close enough to him that he'd know I wanted by. We were parked close together in the paddock and after the session he came by to chat. Casually mentioned he wasn't sure if I wanted to pass. Duh! I made sure to grid ahead of him in future sessions. (Was going to add the vid but YT seems to be on the fritz right now.)
I don't know why but passing etiquette videos always seem to be my favorite ones to watch
I've learned to be quite pushy and obnoxious if I don't get a point by. Things like flashing high beams, shaking my fist, and hounding them in the corners usually gets the message across!
I paid good money for that track time, and I don't want any of those laps to be wasted behind someone slow that doesn't have a clue.
__________________
GPRPCA Chief Driving Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green
1989 928 S4 5 spd - black
1987 928 S4 - Granite Green Metallic (Felsengrun)
I would love to drive there one day, nice session... Except for the 911. I feel your pain, here is my final session of the weekend, only 6 cars on track and yet still jammed up... I should have gone into the pits for some spacing but I hate doing that. The older 911 is in this video too but this session he gave a very timely point by.
Some nice, smooth laps at Roebling. I kind of like to have a car or two that's equal to mine to gain experience in traffic. My "miscue" in T5 in the LS video is because the 911 broke harder than I anticipated and it got me flustered. But that's how you learn. Running "qualifying laps" by yourself gives you opportunity to set personal records, but being good in traffic is also a skill to perfect.
That LS session was probably my best session over the 2 days. I look at the LS videos now and shake my head. I was slow out of corners. But I was just beginning my 3rd yr of DEing and 2 days was not a lot of time for me then. I went to a fairly local track for the 1st time this yr and by the afternoon session on the 1st day had the track figured out. I imagine thstone watches my LS video and it's like scratching finger nails on a chalk board to him.
I would go back to Laguna Seca again if the opportunity arose, but I enjoy COTA more. With twenty turns, long straights, and lots of elevations changes, it is a blast to drive. But getting back to LS to turn some improved laps would also be fun.
__________________
GPRPCA Chief Driving Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green
1989 928 S4 5 spd - black
1987 928 S4 - Granite Green Metallic (Felsengrun)
I've learned to be quite pushy and obnoxious if I don't get a point by. Things like flashing high beams, shaking my fist, and hounding them in the corners usually gets the message across!
I paid good money for that track time, and I don't want any of those laps to be wasted behind someone slow that doesn't have a clue.
I should have gotten more rowdy myself, I had some time this morning waiting for a build so I made this video:
I'm going to try and see if I can get a #YUNOLETMEPASS hashtag to catch on. For educational purposes. I'm sure that a lot of people actually think that if they pull away for 3-4 seconds on the straights that they are indeed faster... They just need to be educated...
I never really did pull much distance on them. This session had my best lap of the day, a high 1:37 when I was chasing the yellow/black car (the same one that the wheel fell off of earlier in the day)
My 392 Challenger (2014) is 4400lbs and 470 HP/TQ. Fun in a straight line... that dark blue one (Jazz Blue - the color of mine) must have been a relatively new driver... not sure I saw him hit many apexes.
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