Weekend oil change...bummer

[dsallean]

Performed an oil change this weekend and found the green bits in the filter. Last oil change was clear. No metal bits were located.



I have an appointment with the Porsche mechanic on Tuesday to get the diagnosis. I am a reasonably capable DIY mechanic but this has me worried.

Dave
2001S

[jakeru]

We've seen this before:
P1325 & green rubber plastic bits in the oil - Is the end near?

Hope that helps; good luck!

[Ben006]

Again?! Third time in two month...

[dsallean]

Thanks I did a search and saw the other thread(s). Thankfully I don't have a CEL at this time. Just thought I would share what I found and what the diagnosis is when I find out.

[911monty]

Hey Dsallean; Sorry to see this. Your car is an 01 I believe so it does have the solenoid that fails. I'll ask the question again since it COULD be related. Does your car by chance have the DOF IMSB? Thanks

[dsallean]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Hey Dsallean; Sorry to see this. Your car is an 01 I believe so it does have the solenoid that fails. I'll ask the question again since it COULD be related. Does your car by chance have the DOF IMSB? Thanks

911monty it doesn't have the DOF IMSB. I have been buying parts and tools to do the clutch, RMS and IMSB among a few other items this winter. I also have Ben006's short shifter to install.

[911monty]

Thanks for the reply about the DOF. Best of Luck to you.

[dsallean]

Update:

The car is back from being diagnosed at the Porsche shop nearby. Very nice folks. Dropped the oil pan and found this and didn't proceed any further. Oddly I didn't find any metal in the filter in the last 2 oil changes but they got some in the oil pan. All the bits they found are here (one green, a few brown, a few metal):



Car has 98,000 miles. They recommended a replacement engine of my choosing.

Dave

[thstone]

Well, the green and brown bits can be argued, but the metal pieces are undeniable. Sorry to hear of this but better to know now than having it fail while you're out in a winter storm at 1am in the middle of no where.

Again, my condolences.

[thstone]

Here is a summary of options (excluding 3.4/3.6 swap);

Option 1: Used (eBay or equivalent) Engine. This is the cheapest route - simply replace the engine you have with another used engine and do a 60K service to get the car back on the road. Future reliability is unknown and you may be right back where you are now (needing an engine replacement) in anywhere from 10K-100K miles. Obviously 10K miles would be a bummer and 100K miles would be awesome - but no one can say for sure which it will be. $4K-$7K.

Option 2: Refreshed Engine. Some shops call them "refreshed" or even "certified pre-owned" and some sellers will even call them "rebuilt" even though they are not really rebuilt. This option will generally consist of a used engine that has good compression as-is with maybe new timing chain/guides, a new water pump and/or alternator, new thermostat, and a 60K service. Be sure to check which exact parts are new/replaced because it varies. Again, you may be right back where you are now in anywhere from 10K-100K miles. $4K-$10K with higher priced engines having fewer original miles and/or add'l components replaced and/or coming from better known shops.

Option 3: Rebuilt/Remanufactured Engine. A remanufactured engine where the engine is rebuilt to meet the original spec's, mostly using OEM parts. This is a classic rebuilt engine. Some engines may have updates like IMS/RMS but you'll need to specifically check. This option should give you ~100K miles of service but the reliability is (again) completely dependent on the engine builder and the extent and quality of the updates installed to address reliability issues. Likely to have a warranty of some kind so be sure to check the warranty details. $8K-$12K. Higher priced engines have more high quality parts/updates and/or come from better known shops.

Option 4: High End Fully Rebuilt. The engine is rebuilt from the ground up with lots of new parts and all upgrades. Buyer may be able to specify some build details as desired. Engine is probably better than anything coming straight out of the factory brand new. Shops that do this work are top-end and their business relies on a good reputation. Should expect ~100K+ miles but check the warranty details. $12K-$20K. This will give you the most peace of mind (and maybe the highest performance) but it comes at a (high) price. Be aware that you may not get 100% of the engine cost back in resale value but that really depends on the buyer.

In summary, only you can decide which path is right for you and depends on how long you expect to keep the car, how much you love the car, how much money you are willing to spend, etc, etc.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by dsallean

Update:

The car is back from being diagnosed at the Porsche shop nearby. Very nice folks. Dropped the oil pan and found this and didn't proceed any further. Oddly I didn't find any metal in the filter in the last 2 oil changes but they got some in the oil pan. All the bits they found are here (one green, a few brown, a few metal):



Car has 98,000 miles. They recommended a replacement engine of my choosing.

Dave

Those pieces of metal don't look ferrous in the image. They look like shaved aluminum. Did they check with a magnet?

[flaps10]

Option 5: Get out the tools.

[Smallblock454]

Option 6: throw in a used engine. Rebuilt the old one yourself while you don't know how long the used one will life. If the used one dies you have a good one to replace and the experience to rebuild the used one better.

Regards, Markus

[dsallean]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Those pieces of metal don't look ferrous in the image. They look like shaved aluminum. Did they check with a magnet?

I looked all over my office for a magnet before I posted the image above and couldn't locate one. I was going to check when I get home. I have known about the results for 2 days but just got the pieces from the oil pan today.

thstone: Thanks. And I appreciate you outlining the available options. I must say it is disheartening to have this happen. When I got the car, no metal in the filter. No real issues to speak of. I knew that a clutch job was in the near future so I have been getting together the tools/parts to do the clutch, RMS, IMSB and a few other items myself after the fall driving weather in south TX, which can be very nice. As I have said...bummer.

After moping around for 24 hours I decided that I am not selling it as a roller or anything of the sort. The joy per $ quotient of this particular car is better than any other sports car I have owned. And Markus, your option 6 has been what has been rolling around my skull since I found out. My biggest concern is buying a used engine. Woody may have something, I don't know yet and he is not too far from me. But if he doesn't and I need to get one on eBay then how can I know that one I am getting isn't another hand grenade before I put it in? Maybe I just take my chances. Ideally I would prefer to not have to return ship an engine. I have shipped engines before and it is a pain.

Dave

[itsnotanova]

Sorry to say I don't have any 3.2, 3.4 or 3.6 and I don't foresee getting any soon either. While he's my biggest competitor for buying vehicles, I do have to give him credit for mostly buying good vehicles and might have something you can trust. You might look at Qualityporscheparts on ebay and see if he has anything. I'd be careful with anyone else though.

[flaps10]

how can I know that one I am getting isn't another hand grenade before I put it in?

You don't.

I can't wait until we finally dispense with the "it's only 1% (or 10%)" theory. Every week, on every forum associated with the M96 there are new posters with metal in the oil.

[mikefocke]

There is a reason used motors have one price and totally rebuilt with "improved" parts and then tested engines have a completely different price. The gap can be $25k!!!

There is no sure thing especially with a used engine, you are relying on a few tests, the reputation of the seller, and any forum info on the seller that you can get. There are people who sell failed engines, even ones that put new IMSs into failed engines and then sell the engines or cars as if they are cured. People lie and cheat, sadly.

OTOH, the engine from my crashed '99 would have been a perfect donor engine. But how to know?

Questions I'd ask:
Why was the engine available? Crash, flood, swap?
Was it running when removed from the donor car?
Have you pulled and inspected both the filter and sump and what were the results?
Have you done a compression test and/or a leakdown test? Results?
Have you inspected the IMS area and is there any sign the IMS is not the one the car came with?
Have you made any changes/improvements to the engine? What?
What accessories are original to the engine and still attached?
Cost delivered to my door?
Warranty?

You can buy any engine and have a failure a week later, a year later or never.

[dsallean]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Those pieces of metal don't look ferrous in the image. They look like shaved aluminum. Did they check with a magnet?

I checked with a magnet last night and none of the pieces stuck to the magnet.

[dsallean]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

Sorry to say I don't have any 3.2, 3.4 or 3.6 and I don't foresee getting any soon either. While he's my biggest competitor for buying vehicles, I do have to give him credit for mostly buying good vehicles and might have something you can trust. You might look at Qualityporscheparts on ebay and see if he has anything. I'd be careful with anyone else though.

Thanks Woody. I suppose it's not my lucky week

There is a guy on CL parting out a 2002 in Sugar Land, including the engine. I sent a message and haven't heard back.

http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/5749101946.html

[dsallean]

Originally Posted by flaps10

You don't.

I can't wait until we finally dispense with the "it's only 1% (or 10%)" theory. Every week, on every forum associated with the M96 there are new posters with metal in the oil.

I guess I drew the short straw on this one.