Fwiw....
 

......I'm new to the Porsche universe.

I'm 50 years old and have owned a Miata for 23 years.

I decided I wanted a Boxster.

I did a LOT of research. I actually work in the auto industry and have a good knowledge of auto manufacturing and how these vehicles work.

I decided that I wanted to own a 2004 "50 Years of 550 Spyder" edition Boxster S. I discovered the IMS issue. I found a car and bought her and then shipped her to Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations. If you go to his web site you can see the various preventative maintenance packages he offers.

I asked him to install his "IMS Solution", a new clutch, flywheel, water pump, rear main seal, spark plugs, serpentine belt and pulleys, Air/Oil Separator, and all three cam chain tensioners.

Yeah. A freaking boatload of money. He sent a great driver who flat bedded my car there and back for me.

Worth...Every....Penny.

A bargain at twice the price.

My wife and I have driven the car on four, cross-country road trips in the nine months I've owned the car. We didn't have to worry about the car.

IMS solution "expensive"? No. It's PRICELESS.

The IMS Solution in an oil fed, plain bearing. ZERO moving parts. Nothing to fail. It will outlast the engine and can actually be transferred to ANOTHER engine.

Just save up and INVEST in the IMS Solution.

Expensive? How much do you think a new engine or new Boxster costs? Not to mention your time and trouble and being without a ride.

Just do it and start enjoying life.

Good luck.

Welcome to the Boxster world. I'm NEVER selling this car. I love her, she makes me smile, and my wife and I are having more fun on our road trips in her.

Cheers!

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1460071561.jpg

Other than it seems you have an ax to grind and don't know what you're talking about as JFP showed.

Marc has just passed the 300k miles mark on his original '01 IMS bearing. Does that mean anything more than one data point?

Being an engineer, I know exactly what I'm talking about. ;)

My point is that I've watched 3 rebuilds in which JR and your fellow fanboys said that it wouldn't work due to failed bearing debris. All 3 are still running. If caught early through due diligence and proper filter/magnet check (or with the Guardian), and with proper tear down and cleaning, the engine is completely salvageable. It just takes a competent and willing person.
The Guardian may not have "been designed" for the 986, but it sure is marketed as such and plenty of 986/996 owners use them for that exact reason.

Now, I've read rennlist for years and am very familiar with your posts. I've witnessed you attacking some that question JR, resorting to name calling and accusations like, "I bet you don't even have a Porsche". I will not debate technical details with someone that has exhibited both zero technical background and the propensity to start hurling insults when his weak argument with no actual technical basis breaks down in the face of intelligence.

So...I'm just going to add you to my very short block list. The 986forum is better without that type of behavior.
Have a nice day! :)

@particlewave: Just smile. ;) Life is too short. ;)

Regards, Markus

No it doesn't. I think Marc's is an 02 btw. Regardless, I'm not worried. I just keep using mine as I do any other car I've ever owned, and I don't even think about replacing the IMS. If it blows up, so be it. I already got my money's worth. I think the problem is a lot smaller than its made up to be, and people worry too much...

If you are going to replace the IMSB do it right. Had mine pulled at 32K along with the clutch assembly, water pump, LT thermo, belt, AOS, chain tensioners, radiator cap. LN bearings done by qualified installers using a pre-qualification approach allows for stress free driving. Just do it....right.

This like arguing over whether is water wet. There are too many opinions!! It's your car, do what you want with it but most of all enjoy it. Use an old beer can for your IMSB or Unobtanium, as long as it works for you, that's cool. I did not use the ceramic bearing, installed it myself (wicked easy), and put my young daughter in the car as her DD. I'm not worried, I did this as a maintenance measure @ 122K miles as we were in there to change the clutch and make the car solid and reliable as a DD with a pretty young girl driving it. The unfortunate part of an IMSB failure is that it is fatal to the engine. Not like a water pump that will leave you stranded but fixable.

It's your car, enjoy it...please.

Wow, I have created a firestorm. I am going to do it just as insurance. I highly doubt the original ims will fail. Just so I sleep better at night, I would rather spend 2k now then have something happen and end up with a 3k paper weight as some have referenced. To me it is like buying additional insurance to cover expenses incase your out of work for an extended period of time due to an accident. Likely you will never really need but nice knowing you have it.
I do agree with Particle Wave that there is a lot of fear mongering going on and that this is no way as prevalent as one is led to believe. You can't open a porsche magazine without seeing ims replacement ads. It's business, I get that. From the volume, one would think it is a mass epidemic impacting all Boxsters. Just The past Excellence user guide did a whole write up on it. It's everywhere. I sometimes admire the folks who don't get caught up in the whole porsche world of magazines and chat sites. They just buy and drive without a care in the world. For me, I have no defense, I am a sucker for good advertisement, some might say a fool. Did I make the right choice? I would say time will tell, but likely it really won't.

Four subjects that are sure to create a firestorm here. IMS, tires, oil....and cats.

I just recently purchased my 01 boxster with 71k miles. Concerned with all these articles on IMS replacement. How do I find out if previous owner performed this maintenance. I have a carfax of all maintenance completed but not of that.

Make sure they give you the warranty sheet.
That the work order has the serial number of the bearing on it.

And that you get the driver's door jamb serial number sticker - most people put it by the VIN sticker.

I've thought long and hard, but with 170,000 miles on my car, I'm not going to spend thousands on upgrades since it is on borrowed time after this anyway. If and when it blows, I will drop in a lower mileage used 2.5 and have the IMSB and chain tensioners replaced during the install. I'll likely go with the "solution" as it's the more permanent piece-of-mind. Since the ceramic ball bearing one has a recommended replacement time, I'd have to be replacing it every 18 months with the high number of miles I rack up on a car. Most owners won't have to worry about that.

If you do not have the original paperwork from the shop that did it, it was not done so plan accordingly.

No paperwork here. My Indi brought the cam lockers to my shop and swapped IMS with LN right where it sat. I had pulled trans and was doing a clutch. $900 (handed him a grand) and I have the old one and the SN stickers to show it was done.

Seems to be just as much anti JR koolaid as pro. :rolleyes: I sure as hell would not buy nor want an engine that's had shavings circulating around. That would be a no go for me to own, not surprising they won't touch one either. I sure wouldn't.

If you have no record and the owner didn't advertise it when he sold it then it wasn't done (to build on timco scenario.)

If it was done with an LN kit you might have a sticker with an LN serial number somewhere in the car. Mine was in the trunk. Sometimes in the door as well. Worth a check especially if you have no record of it. If you find one you can contact LN with the serial number and they should be able to tell you when it was done and possibly by who. In my case I had the DOF installed and found the sticker afterwards lol. But in the end it was done 5 years back so was technically "almost due" based on LNs warranty etc. at the time. and I was happy to do the DOF anyway.

I bought my 2003 S with 100000KM on it didn't get any paperwork with it but had a long talk with the owner had a complete checkup of the car done and was safety tested and etested so I know it was mechanically fit. He also told me he had regular maintenance done on the car and oil changes and that was good enough for me. I don't intend also to change anything on the car like IMS AOS water pump thermostat I just intend on driving it that's all and enjoy it.

For me, this comes down to two issues

Issue 1: The Bet

IMSB options differ by design and cost. Some designs will probably last longer than others. My own beliefs are these. The IMS Solution has the longest service life and may cause the least collateral damage when it fails. Ceramic bearings likely have the next longest service life and steel bearings have the least. When ceramic or steel ball bearing IMSBs fail, the collateral damage can range from minimal to catastrophic.

Issue 2: The Cost of A Lost Bet

If your handy a turning a wrench, have all the necessary special tools, and have access to what's needed to clean out debris, then your financial risks are lower and the questions whether to replace and what to replace the IMSB with become more difficult to answer. That, however, isn't me. I'd need to shop out the replacement / rebuild and doing so would open a big drain in my wallet at local indie rates. The price tag would be in the $ thousands.

My Decision

I had two goals: keep my 125K mileage car around for a long time and minimize the odds of me paying a large bill if the IMSB failed. I choose the Solution as my bet. Time will let me know if I won.

As for the bearing that came out of my car, it was a single row that looked pristine and didn't wobble. When I opened up the seal, however, it was clear the lubricating grease had washed out. Only the Porsche gods know how much longer it would have lasted.

Good luck...gather as many facts and opinions as you can and try to separate the marketing hype and unfounded opinions from what's real. Hint: if LN bearings failed frequently the boards would be screaming with condemnations. They're not which should tell you something.

You are missing my point. You have some documentation to support the installation; but we see quite a few PPI candidates every year, and some claim LN IMS retrofits without any supporting documents, stickers, or photos. We have even had one that claimed it had an LN IMS Solution done. Only problem was the car was pre 2000, making it a dual row, and this occurred before LN released the dual row Solution. On the lift, there was no special spin on oil filter adaptor and oil line running to the bell housing, a dead giveaway. Yet the car's owner never backed off, even after we told the prospective buyer to move on to other cars. Sometimes people simply lie when it is to their benefit.

An experienced eye can often tell whether the car has been apart or not, but the average buyer usually cannot, or cannot gain access to see if it has been worked on. So when asked, we tell people that if there is no supporting documentation, assume it has not been done, and adjust your bid accordingly, or move on.

Next question, I dropped my car off this morning. Mechanic is recommended by LN. Very nice guy. He mentioned something about checking the pads that my friend who was there says keeps tension on the timing chains. "Deviation". Something like that. With my lack of explaining it, if you can tell what I am talking about; is this a common problem? He mentioned the ims and the pads being the big issues with these motors. Otherwise he spoke very highly of the Boxsters. Being on a limited budget, now I am nervous about this issue that I had never heard about 2 hours prior. It's not a matter of trust, he passed my sniff test. I am just curious the likely hood of this bring an issue. Any thoughts from you guys that do this for a living? Thanks.

On five chain engines, there are a set of small wear pads in between the cams which wear and tend to cause the cam deviation values to wander out of spec:

http://www.graciecombativeskc.com/2014/Reid/20.JPG

This is a common problem, and should be addressed if your deviation values are outside the +/- 6 degrees spec range.

Ugh! Well if that is an issue, I am cooked. Thanks.

As others have said and lots of info on the LN Eng. site.
Use a recommended installer when possible so they do a pre-qualification on your car, to see if it is even fit for a new IMS. If you have the money, do the IMS solution.
If there is already debris in the engine and the current IMS is failing, it is already too late.

I went with the Single Row even though at the garage I use, (apart from LN and Flat6 Innov) was the only recommended 'Solution' installer at the time.

The reason was, by the time I will need another IMS changed out for another piece of mind, I would surely need a new clutch or 2 by then. Also, IMS is not the only thing that can cause catastrophic engine failure on the M96. Can always spend the money on another water pump for example :)

It really depends on you, how you see your car and usage :)

I just cant understand people bashing Jake Raby. before he and L&N brought their first product to market, M96 owners had one choice for any internal engine problem. A total engine replacement from a dealer at whatever cost they determined. We were at their mercy. If you didn't buy new or CPO you had no choice but pay the 15k to 25k depending on engine type, dealer, or your relationship with the dealer. I had a 97 986 that had 120k when I sold it. It never had an IMS failure, but I Was mindful and changed the oil every 5k just because I thought it was a good idea. Then I had a 2000 996 tip, because there was some evidence the tips had fewer IMS failures. Not sure that is true, but at the time it seemed like a good idea. I sold the 996 with 80k and bought an m3. A great car but I missed having the porsche. I heard about jakes fix being tested so i found a fairly low mileage 986s and sent it to jake for the full high performance treatment. It wasn't cheap, but i can attest to the FACT that once you become a customer pf Jakes you are a customer that is treated as you might have been 75 years ago. I haven't had to worry about that engine blowing up, but even before he finished testing the solution, I had one in my Boxster. Saying the car is amazing is to do the motor an injustice. It runs like a newer 3.8. I bought my original 996 back. The guy I sold it to had the original ceramic bearing replacement done at my suggestion as soon as he bought it. In fact I knocked off 1k from sales price to encourage him. It now has almost 100k and doing great. After 3 m96 cars I have had zero IMS failures but during the close to 20 years since getting my first one, i have known a lot of guys who did and either spent as much as I did for the full high performance upgrade or sold the car for nothing. If what I hear is true, there aren't many places you can buy a replacement engine
Anymore. Im not sure that is true, but my regular indy says he is spending a lot of time trying to save engines that need to be replaced because the owner cant afford a rebuilt dealer engine And he cant find replacements that
Dont cost more than the car is worth.

If This makes me a minion, then I own it! I consider myself lucky to be a customer of flat6. Anyone who owns any M96 car owes jake a debt just for what he has done for the marque, whether or not you buy into his products. What little value the cars have is due primarily to jake and L&N. Porsche would never have opened the first case if their customers still had no other options. I sold my 996 at market value of 20k in 2008. I bought it back in 2015 for 19k with 1k knocked off for 2 worn rear shocks. Had Jake not introduced the IMS fixes that car wouldn't be worth 10k right now and it very well could have been junked for parts, as would be a lot of these cars

The garage is recommended by LN based on LN's website. He will let me know if I need a clutch. He said hopefully after it is done, I won't have to go back in for 10 years. This is pre inspection of course. I will find out more on Monday. I just did a good dead so hopefully karma will prevail.

What did you pay for the "IMS Solution"?

Probably the same price that's quoted on flat 6s website. About 3750 not including the other things Jake did while it was in there.

Anything can fail... But when something goes south the posted will seldom post the full story. Like the guy that had a dealer do the retrofit procedure, and they didn't even change the engine oil, which had been in service for a year prior! Or the technician that was using impact tools to tighten the center IMS stud nut...

Within the next 45 days or so the amount of LN IMS Retrofit components sold will break the 28,000 mark; with that many retrofits being done, all over the world, and mostly by those who are NOT Certified Installers that have been trained, things will happen.

For the record, there have been zero failures of the IMS Solution. This is a fact.

To date there have been ZERO failures of any IMSR products that were installed by a Certified Installer. This is a fact.

Also, we have performed over 500 IMSR procedures here under my roof, including the very first one. To date we have not had a single failure, of any of the technologies that LN sells. This is also a fact.

The installation DOES matter, and too many shops pay techs on flat rate, where they have to race the clock to make a decent pay check at the end of the week. This promotes negligence, hastiness, and typically does not allow for enough time to inspect and "qualify" an engine prior to the IMSR procedure. That takes 4-6 hours here, but most shops want the job done, and running in 10 hours. Its a recipe for disaster that no one has control over.

That said, you'll not find a single direct customer of ours that has a complaint, or whines on these forums. Our customers are like Smshirk, and they appreciate what we do for them. The whiners, and haters are always the guys that take issue with something, and have not spent a single dollar here. I have no idea why they do what they do, but I have to admit, it is entertaining.

Well I am glad I choose an installer off your website. I almost went with someone else but the guys on Pelican stressed installation.

Getting back to earlier post, no issue with chain pads, well within tolerance. Phew. Do need a new clutch so timing is good. Shop said car is in excellent shape except that some earlier knuckle head jacked up car by some arm or something on tranny. Said they will just try to bend back. Hopefully get back on Wednesday in time for Hershey.

Okay, now put facts behind your allegation that LN bearings 'regularly' fail.

Let's start with this. What do you mean by "regularly' - does it mean 50%, 25%, 10%, 1% or some other percentage of LN bearings have failed. My sense is that reasonable people would say 'regularly' means at least 10%.

But let's be conservative and say for argument sake that 'regularly' means 1%. Well that would mean at least 250 of the 25,000+ LN installations have failed. So who are these 250 people who allegedly experienced a LN bearing failures and why aren't their stories finding their way onto the forums. Could it be because LN bearing don't fail directly without some other intervening cause like left behind debris. Could it be you've vastly overstated your case?

Jake at least has stated the LN case in testable terms. So here's your opportunity to prove him wrong by putting some names and numbers on the table. Without testable facts, statements are just opinions

He's an engineer. You wouldn't understand his reply.

For anyone keeping score, my 2000 S with a motor built in 98 had a dual row bearing. The mechanic said it had a bit of play but not bad. Bearing sent back to LN. Car has 50k. New rms seal,clutch kit and fly wheel also installed. For anyone on the south shore of MA, the shop was south shore auto works in Kingston. On LN's recommended list. They were great to work with and I will go back in the future.