Not so valuable? Jax. Fl. C.L.

[nicecar]

Just noticed this row of cars on C.L. The 996, 986 sure are affordable and ALOT of them for sale I noticed maybe 2 of these MY in the Porsche coral at Sebring. The 996 gets not much more respect than the 986 in some circles IMO.
Jan 1 1999 Porsche 911 Carrara $19500 (West Olive) [×]


Dec 31 Porsche 911 Carerra 4 $16000 (Avondale) [×]
$

Dec 30 2001 Porsche Boxster BAD CREDIT- OK!! WE WILL FINANCE YOU!! SAVE HERE $6950 (Jacksonville) [×]


Dec 30 2003 Porsche 911 Carrera $26490 (Jacksonville, FL) [×]

[Prelude Guy]

My personal opinion, trying to come at it from the tradition buyer - one who barely wrenches on their own car, I see why people don't buy the 996. Without tearing it down to get it reliable just isn't worth the headache.

Coming from a guy who likes to do more complex DIYs like swapping engines, I have no desire to own a 996 911. I believe more traditional 911 enthusiasts would seek out 997s and newer.

[Perfectlap]

It has little to do with the styling and merits of the 996 and more the sheer numbers that have been produced and are rolling about vs. the paltry number of air-cooled 911's that are currently available.
Which is the grand irony, the 996 was a monumental, game-changing success for Porsche even after the dot.com crash where many deep pocket buyers lost a colossal amount of money putting us in a sharp recession. Meanwhile during the great boom economy of the 1990's, the greatest bull market since WWII up to that point, Porsche could barely sell 1,600 air-cooled 911's in all of North America for its final year of production.
Porsche of Miami probably sold that many 996's in a single quarter. But fast forward to the present and the second hand market is up to its eyeballs in 996's, 997's, 986's, 987's. Which makes these cars worth very little as the costs to maintain all of them is far out of the reach of most second hand buyers. The air-cooled 911's don't suffer from this problem because there are simply more buyers with means than there are vintage 911s.

As far as the 996 as a car, it's the workhorse 911. It was the first 911 that could put the average weekend warrior within a matter of seconds of the most experienced factory driver all with little maintenance compared to many previous 911 generations. It was the first 911 you could drive every day, year round and not face costly engine rebuilds as regular part of long-term ownership. If they engine let go, simply buy a crate engine and your on your way.
Had the Porsche design team simply introduced the 996 with the 993 styling of high fenders, round lights and a short wheel base, but with a water-cooled engine instead, the 996 might not have sold as well. Think about that for a minute. That's how low the reputation of Porsche had fallen relative to their high asking prices in those expensive 1990's dollars. People were buying two of everything in the 1990's yet they little if any interest in Porsche, even those who could afford them. But if you talk to people these days about the 996 it's like if this was the car that nearly bankrupted the brand. How's that for gratitude!

[nicecar]

p lap always the voice of reason." reliable not durable " Thanks for 4 years of great reading

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

It has little to do with the styling and merits of the 996 and more the sheer numbers that have been produced and are rolling about vs. the paltry number of air-cooled 911's that are currently available.
Which is the grand irony, the 996 was a monumental, game-changing success for Porsche even after the dot.com crash where many deep pocket buyers lost a colossal amount of money putting us in a sharp recession. Meanwhile during the great boom economy of the 1990's, the greatest bull market since WWII up to that point, Porsche could barely sell 1,600 air-cooled 911's in all of North America for its final year of production.
Porsche of Miami probably sold that many 996's in a single quarter. But fast forward to the present and the second hand market is up to its eyeballs in 996's, 997's, 986's, 987's. Which makes these cars worth very little as the costs to maintain all of them is far out of the reach of most second hand buyers. The air-cooled 911's don't suffer from this problem because there are simply more buyers with means than there are vintage 911s.

As far as the 996 as a car, it's the workhorse 911. It was the first 911 that could put the average weekend warrior within a matter of seconds of the most experienced factory driver all with little maintenance compared to many previous 911 generations. It was the first 911 you could drive every day, year round and not face costly engine rebuilds as regular part of long-term ownership. If they engine let go, simply buy a crate engine and your on your way.
Had the Porsche design team simply introduced the 996 with the 993 styling of high fenders, round lights and a short wheel base, but with a water-cooled engine instead, the 996 might not have sold as well. Think about that for a minute. That's how low the reputation of Porsche had fallen relative to their high asking prices in those expensive 1990's dollars. People were buying two of everything in the 1990's yet they little if any interest in Porsche, even those who could afford them. But if you talk to people these days about the 996 it's like if this was the car that nearly bankrupted the brand. How's that for gratitude!

Well said. The 986/996 of the late 1990's and early 2000's along with the Cayenne a few years later saved Porsche. Sheer numbers have driven down prices of these early water cooled vehicles while a lack of 993's and a certain mystique of being the last of a breed have driven their prices skyward. A low starting price for a 986/996 means one thing; you have the money you save to spend on maintenance and upgrades. Buy a 993 and you better have very deep pockets to start and more for future maintenance.

[kk2002s]

Good points made about the 996. It appears to have sold well. I believe most opinions about it's drive ability, handling, performance, ect. were typically favorable. It's biggest hill to climb was that it was a change in direction to the companies Icon.
At least the 986 was a new stand alone model really with no previous history to be compared against. Again mainly favorable opinions but as we all know it still got bashed.

My opinion, the 986 base and S and the 996 Turbo are the best sports car values out there.

For the price of a nicely optioned new 986 S (back in 2002) you could have in your garage today, a 2002 986 S and a 2002 996 Turbo

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by Prelude Guy

My personal opinion, trying to come at it from the tradition buyer - one who barely wrenches on their own car, I see why people don't buy the 996. Without tearing it down to get it reliable just isn't worth the headache.

Coming from a guy who likes to do more complex DIYs like swapping engines, I have no desire to own a 996 911. I believe more traditional 911 enthusiasts would seek out 997s and newer.

Traditional 911 enthusiasts want air cooled cars. They decry that porsche ever came into contact with water pumps. Before them, the 356 enthusiasts hated the 911. The 996 is no more of a headache than any other porsche. As long as you know what needs to be maintained and addressed there's really a far less cost of ownership that the air cooled cars. After all, they are 3/4 a Boxster.

The water cooled cars are much more of a workhorse than the air cooled cars could ever be.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by kk2002s

At least the 986 was a new stand alone model really with no previous history to be compared against.

I will quibble with this is you will allow me. The marketing term Boxster 986 had no previous history. But a two seat only, mid platform, short wheel base, purpose built convertible with a boxer engine had more history than any other Porsche model. The Boxster is the 550 reincarnate, and had racing pedigree long before the 911 was even an idea in Anyone's head. And arguably you can go even further back than The 550 since the very first Porsche ever built was all of the above mentioned. That first of *all Porsches* was essentially the 550 but they called it the 356A#1 instead. The car Mr. Porsche wanted but could not find. To ensure sales two seats were added to the back, the engine was moved to the rear, it was turned into a coupe and the original "Boxster" disappeared for 50 years until they hit that moment in 1990s of "in case of emergency break glass"! Voila 356A#1 was back as the 986.

[VGM911]

In the August 1998 issue of Excellence Magazine, Hurley Haywood reviewed/road tested the new water-cooled 1999 911 and set forth its superiority over the air/oil-cooled 993 in every aspect - especially its on-the-road performance. An admirable achievement!

[dijinn]

Originally Posted by kk2002s

For the price of a nicely optioned new 986 S (back in 2002) you could have in your garage today, a 2002 986 S and a 2002 996 Turbo

I've been keeping an eye out for a 996 Turbo for the last couple of years... and they have definitely increased in prices during that time. I almost pulled the trigger on a 50k mile 996 Turbo for $35k a little over a year ago and I'm now kicking myself for not having picked it up. Same car with higher mileage (60k-70k miles) is in the $40-$45k area now, if not higher. 996 Turbos look to be the next "collector" car.

[kk2002s]

Originally Posted by dijinn

I've been keeping an eye out for a 996 Turbo for the last couple of years... and they have definitely increased in prices during that time. I almost pulled the trigger on a 50k mile 996 Turbo for $35k a little over a year ago and I'm now kicking myself for not having picked it up. Same car with higher mileage (60k-70k miles) is in the $40-$45k area now, if not higher. 996 Turbos look to be the next "collector" car.

Same here. Looking back a year ago, in this area 50k+ mile cares were mid $40k, now mid $50k

Perfectlap - no denying there is a history for the 986 but there is such a large disconnect to it's origins that I can't think of the Boxster/986 as an evolution of the 550.
I have to wonder though, if they had continued the mid-engine roadster from the 550 to today, maybe Porcshe would never had to rely on Toyota to fix them

[nicecar]

Originally Posted by kk2002s

Same here. Looking back a year ago, in this area 50k+ mile cares were mid $40k, now mid $50k

Perfectlap - no denying there is a history for the 986 but there is such a large disconnect to it's origins that I can't think of the Boxster/986 as an evolution of the 550.
I have to wonder though, if they had continued the mid-engine roadster from the 550 to today, maybe Porcshe would never had to rely on Toyota to fix them

Seems a bit of a stretch to me as well but I like thinking that was the intent. Forgive my ignorance and fill me in as far a Toyota is concerned

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by kk2002s

Same here. Looking back a year ago, in this area 50k+ mile cares were mid $40k, now mid $50k

Perfectlap - no denying there is a history for the 986 but there is such a large disconnect to it's origins that I can't think of the Boxster/986 as an evolution of the 550.
I have to wonder though, if they had continued the mid-engine roadster from the 550 to today, maybe Porcshe would never had to rely on Toyota to fix them

Any other brand in a similar situation would have admitted that there was no fundamental difference between the 550 and 986. BMW, Audi and Mercedes would have skipped the whole Porsche marketing exercise of Introducing "Boxsters" and "Caymans" and just announced they were bringing back the 550 while adding M Powered or AMG engines to drum up sales hype. But Porsche had to use the strategy of a Porsche roadster to save the 911and Porsche without giving that roadster more prestige or performance. 550's sell for astronomical sums compared to Carreras and big power in a modern day midengine platform would have taken the shine off time sheets of the flagship Carreras. The way to pull this off was to detune the engine, and pass it off as a lower price option for a first time Porsche buyer. But the strong economic climate in the U.S. market wasn't asking for a cheap Porsche. They were asking for an all new Porsche, one that looked nothing like a traditional 911 or was engineered like one. For a small 2.5 engine it was an expensive car value wise, yet Americans jumped in with both feet because those who could afford one had plenty of cash at the time. The success of the first 986 meant they could pull off both saving the company without up staging the 911 history and performance. Development on the 996 continued while all the Boxster orders put the factory back in full swing. And only now, some nearly 20 years later are Porsche finally dispensing with small displacement engines in the 981 Spyder and dropping the whole Boxster 986 marketing ploy for the 917 branding. and technically all this is only happening because VW want to show the old Porsche guard who potected the 911 at all costs that ultimately VW prevailed as the winner.

[dijinn]

Originally Posted by nicecar

Forgive my ignorance and fill me in as far a Toyota is concerned

In the '90's when Porsche was just doing atrociously, they hired Toyota's consulting arm which specializes in streamlining, trimming fat and making operations more efficient (among other things). It is this streamlining of operations that put Porsche on the successful path to fulfill all of the Boxster orders that came later and ultimately saved the company.

I encourage anyone in a manufacturing type of environment to read the book "The Toyota Way". Interesting read and principles pioneered by Toyota that continue to apply today.

[nicecar]

Originally Posted by dijinn

In the '90's when Porsche was just doing atrociously, they hired Toyota's consulting arm which specializes in streamlining, trimming fat and making operations more efficient (among other things). It is this streamlining of operations that put Porsche on the successful path to fulfill all of the Boxster orders that came later and ultimately saved the company.

I encourage anyone in a manufacturing type of environment to read the book "The Toyota Way". Interesting read and principles pioneered by Toyota that continue to apply today.

Hence the identical car from the front door forward 996 and 986 and the slide in headlights, faster on the production line. 90 % of a 911 for 60% of the price with the motor in the right spot is how the saying goes......I think