wicked vibration part 2

[mach schnell]

alright, so box to Walter's this am - my list of complaints:
1. vibration or shimmy through-out car - began about 10 days ago, apparent over 70mph
2. Wind noise from passenger area - sounds like window is down, but isn't. No noise from driver side (this is also new)
3. Side marker on passenger side keeps popping loose - quick fix with ductape - according to Car gods this is only acceptable for pinto's and saturns!!!

well, after they've had the car for about 6 hours, I finally get a call - "we've driven three times and can't find a vibration or any wind noise - can you come down and take the car out with the technician?" so i wrap up what i'm doing and head out to the dealership.

naturally, when i get there i have a few questions:
1. is the technician going to ride on my lap while i drive?
2. does the technician own a porsche -cuz if he's driving a ************************ riced out 3-tone, 4-door honda civic then i doubt he'd have an ************************ clue what a porsche should drive like!
3. is the tech hispanic - since every hispanic in socal has decided not too work today - maybe he's pissed that he's actually at work!
4. occam's razor - did they rule out (sorry, the doctor in me) a tire balance issue.

so, out we go - me and the technician (who by the way, had no clue when i handed him my key to turn on the airbag - since he was the passenger) - first clue that he was f$%#wad! as we're driving - windows up - noise coming from passenger side -
i ask, "do you hear all that wind noise?"
tech - "its from your convertible top"
me -"why no wind noise on driver side - wind only blows on the right side of the car"
tech - silence

we hit 70+ and i feel the shimmy through the wheel
me, " there's the vibration"
tech " that's the road"
me " i know what the road feels like - this is different"
tech "its porsche - stiff suspension"
me "i've driven other porsches - no vibration! and if this is normal for porsche, how come mine didn't have this normal vibration when i bought it, cuz in that case, i feel jipped out of a few months of normal porsche vibration!"
tech - silence
tech - "is this your first porsche!"
me "uh, it's my first car, i don't even know how to drive!"
me "did you check the tires for balance problems"
tech "NO - WE CAN'T CHECK TIRES FOR BALANCE UNLESS WE FEEL THE PROBLEM"
SIDE NOTE: THANK GOD I CAN'T TELL A PATIENT WITH CHEST PAIN THAT I CAN'T RUN TESTS UNLESS I SEE THE CHEST PAIN!

as you can see - didn't get anywhere! so had service mgr take it out, as they were going to send me on my way. he comes back...
svc mgr. "so you feel a vibration?"
me" yes, started 10 days ago - not there on way to phoenix, there on way back - there when i drove car with your genius tech! there is something not right and since i didn't buy this car to granny around town in, and it doesnt feel stable even at 70 in a straight line, i'll keep coming back until you actually do something"
svc mgr" we could balance the tires"
me, "duh, huh that can be done?! that sounds like a great place to start!"

god, about right now, that honda s2000 or nissan 350z or infiniti g35 coupe or even the f-ink c230 i'm driving right now look better than my porsche!

tomorrow - part three...

[blinkwatt]

See now this is why we need to clone MNBoxster and enslave the clones to be Porsche mechanics.

[mach schnell]

blinkwatt - you might be a genius!

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by blinkwatt

See now this is why we need to clone MNBoxster and enslave the clones to be Porsche mechanics.

Hey,

I I resemble resemble that that remark remark...

Happy Happy Motoring! Motoring!... Jim'99 Jim'99

[BeechSierra]

Mach schnell-

I know you are frustrated but I hope you can (& did) curb your attitude somewhat with the dealership personnel. Many of your critiscisms may be (& probably are) true but you need to help the dealership solve the problems you are experiencing, not take a "let's see if these idiots can figure this one out" position.

I worked for the factory for years and have worked with car dealerships all my business career and in nearly 30 years, the one thing I have learned is the more information you can supply the technician with, the faster and better the service will be.

Having driven test cars for the factory, I learned too, that details can make all the difference. I don't know if you were able to give them specifics about the conditions when the vibrations and noises occur but the greater those details the more likely they will be to duplicate the circumstances and get the problem resolved.

Of course, try the simple fixes first but suppling observations about the circumstances you encountered when the problems occured can be extremely helpful.

Try to be patient. Think about the circumstances within which you were driving the car (speed, road surface, temperature, accelerating, decelerating, etc.) and be sure they know all you know to help them diagnose and solve the problem.

You would want a patient to tell you all they can to help you solve a medical problem. Try to give the tech the same courtesy. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress. Your experiences may help all the rest of us!

CL

[mach schnell]

beech -

in fact, my thread is a bit more sarcastic than i actually was at the dealer. and, much like i try to gather a ton of info from my patients, i described as much as i could about the vibration, knowing that unlike a car that doesn't start or has blue smoke coming from the engine, determining the nature of a 'shimmy' could be difficult.

so, my frustration lies in the fact that i felt i was being blown off and that they were suggesting there mustn't be a vibration because porsche's have stiff suspensions and this is my first porsche, so i obviously can't tell a normal vibration from an abnormal vibration.

i guess i look at porsche ownership a little bit like plastic surgery - you can pick the guy down the street in the strip mall to do your wife's boob job or you can pick dr 90210. the guy down the street has green astroturf in his office and a 75 year old receptionist and his bedside manner is bland at best. with dr 90210 you know he's a bit full of himself, but you're gonna get the pizazz along with the talent. for $52k i think there should be pizazz and talent - that's part of the price, that's part of why you're willing to buy that car vs the really fun honda!

[larez2]

I personally think your dealer can tell there are vibrations, (those guys really aren't as clueless as we might think ) but they can't figure out why and therefore say there's nothing wrong. If they said they did feel the vibrations and heard the wind noise, but couldn't tell you what was wrong, think about the predicament that would put them in. They'd have to start replacing parts until it was fixed or give you a new car. I bet any outside mechanic or any friend would tell you forthright that they feel vibrations and hear the wind, but they're not liable to fix it, so they can "afford" to be honest.

I had pretty nasty vibrations much like what you describe in my car - albeit mine's older, it's a 99' w/ turbo twist 18's. (at the time the existing tires had about 5k miles on them) Anyways here is what I did and the order I did it:

1. re-balanced all tires at discount tire using their hunter 9700 or something ( the one that does the road force variation, blah, blah, blah stuff). didn't help at all.

2. Got an alignment at a nice shop the BruceLee recommended. Nice shop, quality work, and my car did need some minor adjustments. BUT it didn't solve the vibration issue.

3. took it to the porsche dealership and asked to have the vibrations checked out and also to inspect all suspension/steering/chasis. I think the official verbiage on the invoice was "road test: technician noted normal suspension feed back during road test", and they charged me 50 bones to do the road test. Such BS. At that point i didn't feel there was anything i could do, everything checked out and I felt vibrations are a qualitative observation and that i had no way quantify the vibrations and prove something was wrong.

4. replaced all 4 tires (at this point the tires had 15k miles total on them). I replaced them with Pirelli Pzero's from discount tire. Vibrations gone, completely gone for the last 5k miles.

I basically lived with the vibrations from 5k-15k miles

Maybe you can get the dealer to test drive your car with an extra set of wheels they having lying around? Just a thought.

Good luck,
Larez2

[RandallNeighbour]

Warranty work doesn't pay. That's why you're getting screwed and will continually get screwed when it doesn't involve something obvious that entails a part swap. They do get paid for a part and the hours required to replace that part.

If you took it in and told them this entire issue will be handled off warranty books as a "customer pay" you'd have them doing all sorts of things to the car to find and eliminate that vibration.

[denverpete]

I've been following this thread and Larez2's comments finally reminded me of something that happened to me (not in the Box).

I had a Jeep Wrangler that started to vibrate at highway speeds. I took it in and had the tires balanced. Went out on the road and still had the vibrations. I checked the wheels and found MASSIVE balancing weights. Hmmm, first clue.

Turns out, one of the tires had a "belt" separation or was dented inside the tire. Replaced the tires with nice, new, bigger ones and the problem was GONE!

Seriously, I think this is a tire issue. If you have a friend with a similar Box - maybe you can swap out the tires and see if that fixes the problem. If it's a belt separation (or dented belt) inside the tire - no amount of balancing is going to solve the problem....

[Ronzi]

Pete raises a good point. Ply or belt separations, and tread seps as well, can result in vibration.
The separation can be very visible, an obvious bubble in the sidewall for example, but also can be not visible at all. Tread seps are frequently this way, although they do tend to reveal themselves by a heavily worn flat spot in the tread surface.
It doesn't take long for a tread separation to peel the tread off the tire, as witnessed by all the truck tire treads you see strewn all over every interstate.
I don't recall that you have said what brand of tires are on your car, but some brands are notorious for the smoothness going to hell as the tire wears. I think every set of BF Goodrich's I ever had did that.