Intro + Question About 986 vs 987 Interior

[My_Name_is_Dan]

1st post in these forums. I registered primarily because I THINK I want a Boxster, but haven't yet committed to actually getting serious enough to pursue one. I just sold my 1991 BMW 850i a few weeks ago and I'm trying to scratch that itch for another convertible. I loved the coupe, but there is something about top down driving that no other car can fulfill.

Before I continue, I figured some of you might like to see what my 850i looked like:




In the past, we've owned 5 Miatas (NA, NB, & NC) and enjoyed all of them. The new Miata looks promising, but at $32K I don't know if I want to swing that way and commit that kind of money … yet.

I thought the BMW Z4 would be a better option for me, but I've driven both the E85 & E89 versions and remarkably I did not care for the seats - if you can believe that.

My only experience with the Porsche was a 1987 928S4 I owned and I parted ways with it simply because parts were prohibitively expensive - the cam gears alone are over $400 each. In retrospect, I should have kept it, but that ship has sailed.

Anyway, used Porsche Boxsters are scarce in my neck of the woods. I have driven a 987 Cayman but have not had the opportunity to drive a 986 Boxster. One thing that concerns me is the interior in the 986. It looks somewhat downscale as far as aesthetics go - primarily lots of plastic bits and alot of wear surfaces on the switchgear (at least from pictures I've seen). To me the 987 interior looks more upscale, but this may be totally subjective. What are your thoughts on the 986 interiors and do you enjoy the seat comfort? Additionally, what draws you to the 986 vs the 987, other than price?

The whole IMS issue is a concern, but I think I know enough to deal with it on my own as I do my own wrenching and have a lift. However, I'm wondering if I do find one that I want to purchase, how do you deal with getting a PPI when the car is not in your hometown?

[KevinH1990]

First - welcome.

Second - I have a 986 and I think the 987 interiors look better. I've upgraded mine over time with some OEM parts. Most 986 interiors have too much plastic, but there are some cars with full leather interiors that are a bit nicer. You can check out my upgrades here: http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/55759-de-changed-some-interior-items.html

I think the seats are more comfortable than the ones in my Miata, but that is a subjective judgment.

Regarding the remote PPI - I bought my car in the DC suburbs (about 125 miles from where I live.) I arranged to meet the seller at a Porsche dealer and we agreed that the deal was off if the car didn't pass muster. You may also be able to have another board member check out a car for you.

[Perfectlap]

if you can swing a 2009 Boxster that's the right starting point. It's the all new engine that is the latest and greatest.
Before 2009, if you want to look for first gen Boxsters, find ones that have already had the IMS issue addressed. If not you should add $3K to the asking price right off the top. And get a new water pump in it if its still on the factory original, best practice is to replace every 4-5 years as failing water pumps take down many more engines than the IMS issue that gets all the attention. Once the IMS is upgraded you're pretty much in the clear on that issue because its extremely rare to hear of an IMS failure on Boxster or 996 Carrera that had the original IMS replaced proactively.
If you find one that has had this work done already, make sure it's been a few thousand miles since the swap. This means that the swap was done before any metal ended up in the oil. You want to do the swap when the only thing in the oil is oil.
The really early Boxsters 1996-99 don't really have IMS issues at nearly the same rate but good luck finding a low mileage example. 2005-2008 really don't have IMS issues since they added the non-replaceable IMS bearing that rarely fails, but if you intend to own long-term be aware that these IMS bearings can not be serviced without splitting open the engine....probably not an issue if you're not adding a huge number of miles. Otherwise these are good value if you prefer the styling. Engine wise, the m97 engines in these aren't that much different from the m96 engines in the 2000-2004 Boxsters (according to our resident engine experts).

But overall:
96-99 are essentially the same car.
00-02 are essentially the same car.
03-04 are essentially the same car.
05-08 are essentially the same car.

I would look for the examples with the lowest mileage within each of the above year ranges. Don't pay up for year, pay up for low mileage. Personally if you're going to go with a first generation Boxster the 00-02 S model is the best option as far as engine issues. If you go 987, look for a low mileage S model as well. At this curbe weight, the extra oomph of the S model engine makes a difference off braking and out of slow corners giving it a more lively feel. And the extra ponies are very handy in highway merging and overtaking slow mini vans in the left lane.

p.s.
I prefer the 986 interior, the 1993 Concept Car design was fantastic. Unfornately Porsche stripped it down and made everything in the interior an expensive option. But a well optioned 986 looks sportier to me (which is a bit of a contradiction) than anything else by Porsche that came after in everyone of their cars. The 986/996 interior seemed like a smoother transition from the 911 and 964 era. A bit similar to the 993, especially the seats and steering wheel. The 987 interior was improvement in materials but I don't care for the Audi/BMW sedan'ish feel in a roadster. I'm not a fan of the steering wheel design and the side intakes still look weird to me. The 987 rear end styling is however a huge (as Trump would say) improvement over the 986 in my humble opine. This is all subjective of course.

[patssle]

The 986 all leather interior is a huge upgrade. Definitely consider those models.

[My_Name_is_Dan]

Originally Posted by KevinH1990

First - welcome.

Second - I have a 986 and I think the 987 interiors look better. I've upgraded mine over time with some OEM parts. Most 986 interiors have too much plastic, but there are some cars with full leather interiors that are a bit nicer. You can check out my upgrades here: http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/55759-de-changed-some-interior-items.html

I think the seats are more comfortable than the ones in my Miata, but that is a subjective judgment.

Regarding the remote PPI - I bought my car in the DC suburbs (about 125 miles from where I live.) I arranged to meet the seller at a Porsche dealer and we agreed that the deal was off if the car didn't pass muster. You may also be able to have another board member check out a car for you.

Your upgrades are very tasteful indeed..

[My_Name_is_Dan]

PerfectLap - Appreciate the detailed and informative response. It will add to my ever increasing understanding of these cars. The bit about buying a car with the IMS upgrade after a few thousand miles is good info.

As far as swinging an 09 or later model… Yes, I can swing it. There is an 09 within an hour of me with 11K miles for $35K, but at that price point I can spend another $15K and get within spitting distance of a used one with a CPO warranty. I sat in a new one this weekend and couldn't justify the expense. Tough decision for a 3rd vehicle that will be for entertainment purposes only.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by My_Name_is_Dan

PerfectLap - Appreciate the detailed and informative response. It will add to my ever increasing understanding of these cars. The bit about buying a car with the IMS upgrade after a few thousand miles is good info.

As far as swinging an 09 or later model… Yes, I can swing it. There is an 09 within an hour of me with 11K miles for $35K, but at that price point I can spend another $15K and get within spitting distance of a used one with a CPO warranty. I sat in a new one this weekend and couldn't justify the expense. Tough decision for a 3rd vehicle that will be for entertainment purposes only.

If that's the case, find a good clean 03-04 S between 40 and 70K miles.
You want one that is not a garage queen and has actually been driven. Very low mileage cars that have just sat in a garage a lot usually need all the fluids changed, new tires, some of the rubber bits will have dried out, etc. One that was driven and serviced should require less immediate service. Not a bad idea to do an oil change right away either, and that is a very easy DIY

Also if possible service records

You should be able to find one under $20k and then with the money you saved, have the IMSB replaced if that makes you feel better and have the clutch done at the same time as you need to pull the tranny to get to the IMSB

[papasmurf]

of it more than the 986. Most early 986's tend to have really spartan interiors unless the owner went crazy during the build process or it was upgraded over the years. I highly recommend the sport/design (option P69) interior option on the 986 as it gives you painted parts in the interior to break up the monochromatic look, a "diamond weave" vinyl for the dash and door panels, and the sport seats which are a hit or miss depending on your height & size. Most 987 interiors tend to be on the boring side (along with the exteriors....way too many grey cars out there) but you can find some with painted interior pieces, belts. stitching and consoles which goes a long way to make it feel more sporty.

[BIGJake111]

Love the 8 series! Also a 928, you've owned two cars I hope to own myself some day.

As for the 986 I've had a very basic car and now drive one with many options and I can say that it makes a huge difference!

The ergonomics in the 986 are perfect regardless of quality, but it make a big difference to have a car with the right set of options.

The 987 will have more tat to start with but I do not know that it will stand the test of time as well, I have seen some pretty scuffed 997 interior switch gear and trim.

My first base car had black gloss door handles and the shifter was black gloss and the dials were black and the hand break was plastic.

Now i have a well optioned S. Everything mentioned before is now brushed aluminum with white dials and aluminum around the dials. The car has the supple leather option on the seats which is also much better than the perforated.
The current car has yellow deviated stitching and seat belts to match the cars exterior as well as full leather.

That's just what is on mine if you get really lucky you will find some cars with painted seat backs, center tunnel, center console trim, wood trim, or even carbon fiber.

Remember that the same interior in these cars was sold in 911 GT2s that sold for quite the price.

The interior is the worst asset of the 986 but I still get frequent compliments on mine, passengers tend to feel safe and comfortable. And despite being such an old car the interior does not feel dated other then the lack of technology that's of no good use anyways.

You sound as if you could get a fairly nice 987 but this also means you could have most any 986 you want.

I would suggest looking into a 986 550 special edition as they have an outstanding brown leather.

[Chuck W.]

Agree with the above. Jake (as usual) is correct, the 2004 986 SE with the coco brown leather interior is my favorite. I am not a fan of the 987 or newer Boxster interiors. To me, they just look to plush. There is a sweet spot between the base stripped 986 and the 987s; the 550 hit that mark. I have added leather door panels, leather air bag, red seat belts and some other odds and ends but I am still short of the 550 SE.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by JayG

If that's the case, find a good clean 03-04 S between 40 and 70K miles.
You want one that is not a garage queen and has actually been driven. Very low mileage cars that have just sat in a garage a lot usually need all the fluids changed, new tires, some of the rubber bits will have dried out, etc. One that was driven and serviced should require less immediate service. Not a bad idea to do an oil change right away either, and that is a very easy DIY

Also if possible service records

You should be able to find one under $20k and then with the money you saved, have the IMSB replaced if that makes you feel better and have the clutch done at the same time as you need to pull the tranny to get to the IMSB

I disagree Sir! With a 00-02 S model you've largely eliminated D-chunk failure (but also true of 03-04), have a chance at landing a dual row IMS (mostly early 2000 S cars) which means much better IMSB longevity....single row bearings in 03-04 cars should be replaced every 50K miles (from what has been posted here unless you're eliminating the IMS altogether with LN Solution) and you've also eliminated specific lifter issues more prevalent in the 2003-2004 3-chain engines... plus you get a market discount in 00-02 S model over a 03-04 S of similar mileage that looks and drives likes its nearly the same car. Sure 03-04 has a glass window but that can be added to 00-02 cars in the aftermarket and a new top makes any 11 year old car look newer.

[JayG]

Since when should the IMSB be replaced every 50k miles???? IIRC, that is the service interval for the LN replacement, not a factory or other 3rd party bearings

D-chunk issues with 03-04 3.2? I don't recall that, maybe I missed that..., or did I misunderstand your post

Yes, 2000ish dual row seem to have a smaller incidence of reported failures

The 03-04 have additional interior upgrades as well as being simply a few years newer

[My_Name_is_Dan]

Darn, you shouldn't have told me about the SE. That is one sweet interior! I'm sure those vehicles are few and far between on the open market..

[kk2002s]

Can only speak from a 986 perspective, though I do think the 987 looks better (IMO)
I was lucky my 986 has the full leather interior and I have always been confused by comments of how cheap the 986 interior looks. I will admit the plastic bits (Arm rests, center console) do show their age (A spray painting would solve that)
$$$ - The 986 S in the 50k miles range might be the best driving car for the money - I'm biased

I think it comes down to driving both models

Good Luck

PS: That BWM was a pretty car. I have a thing for M3's. I could be persuaded to change from my boxster to an early 2000's M3 in that special Blue

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by JayG

Since when should the IMSB be replaced every 50k miles???? IIRC, that is the service interval for the LN replacement, not a factory or other 3rd party bearings

I'm taking a 50k mile service interval for an LN single-row bearing to mean that you definitely want the original factory bearing out at a similarly short interval. From my view of the issue, without at least a direct oil feed, both units aren't really addressing the root cause of the IMS issue, they both have to suffer the consequences of contamination and oil starvation, the differentiation being that aftermarket one is engineered so that a single row of bearings can take on the heavier lifting (vs. a dual row) and the other factory unit simply was not. But either way, a bearing is a bearing and none lasts forever. Certainly not a sealed one inside a hot engine.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by My_Name_is_Dan

Darn, you shouldn't have told me about the SE. That is one sweet interior! I'm sure those vehicles are few and far between on the open market..

They're not hard to find. But usually the owners want a lot more money for them then what the typical bidder is willing to fork over for the extra options. Unlike a limited production Porsche that comes with an actual limited production engine, these have bullet proof resale but they're all GT2/GT3 Carrera variants. It's all about the engine when it comes to commanding a high resale. If its still a mass produced engine (ie the same one found in the Boxster S) in a SE Boxster, then its harder to ask for the premium unless the bidder is really in love with the interior and exterior upgrades which individually hold little value once depreciation kicks in. If the asking price is reasonable, then its a better value than a similar mileage non-SE Boxster S because adding options later, like HID lights, 18" Carrera wheels, interior upgrades, etc. is still very expensive. Personally I would pay up for a lower mileage Boxster S, I'll take reliability over amenities.

[My_Name_is_Dan]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

They're not hard to find. But usually the owners want a lot more money for them then what the typical bidder is willing to fork over for the extra options. ...

... Personally I would pay up for a lower mileage Boxster S, I'll take reliability over amenities.

Agree with your assessment of this particular model. Your posts have been quite informative. Most appreciated.

[sickbananas]

Some good feedback you have already received and BTW your 8 series is super sexy! I have a 2000 S and and very happy with my interior, I think you need to decide do you want a 986 or 987, the 987 has a better base interior IMO, however the 986 can be customized to look ever better that the 987. It all costs money and is down to personal preference, I have a set of GT3 seats and have colour coded/styled my interior based on a cayman R. My final interior mod is to do a iPad mini installation into my dash with a oem radio delete.

[BYprodriver]

Dan from your great 1st post it seems you are in a great position to become a thrilled Boxster owner. Given your lift, Miata experience, & budget, I think you should drive a 986 "S" & 987 "S" & decide which you prefer. I prefer the analog feel of my 2000 986 "S" over the 987. Before buying my Box I test drove a '99 M3 & 2002 330ci biggest turnoff to me was the peeling interior trim, worse than Boxsters.

[My_Name_is_Dan]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Dan from your great 1st post it seems you are in a great position to become a thrilled Boxster owner. Given your lift, Miata experience, & budget, I think you should drive a 986 "S" & 987 "S" & decide which you prefer. I prefer the analog feel of my 2000 986 "S" over the 987. Before buying my Box I test drove a '99 M3 & 2002 330ci biggest turnoff to me was the peeling interior trim, worse than Boxsters.

Good point on driving both the 986 & 987 cars. Going to be hard to do in my immediate area. Not much around here to choose from, which is a shame. The "S" cars are even less available, which relegates me to having to drive 2-4 hours to find those specimens. I am going to have to be patient in my pursuit of the right car.