LN bearing failure
 

Jake and Charles, somehow we knew that we would get back to this subject. We never expected it would be so quick :)
Our customer has installed LN bearing "upgrade" along with AOS and a new clutch, cost $4000. 2 years and nearly 30,000 miles later he found metal shavings in his oil filter and on his magnetic plug. He sent his engine to our shop for core credit after he purchased one of our 3.6l rebuilt motors. He's out total of $16,000 because of his "upgrade", and now regrets he ever touched the original bearing in the first place.
Luckily, he caught it in the beginning stage, bearing is loose, but no major engine damage yet. Metal shavings from inner and outer races were circulating inside his motor and managed to wear out main and rod bearings, we also found tiny shavings from the bearings in oil.
Here are links to 3 videos, 1 shows bearing still in his motor, 2- when it's being removed, and last one once it's out.
If anyone else doubts which bearing is better, now you know. This is the exact reason why we use only roller bearings in our rebuilt motors. We have customers who have been driving their cars with our bearings for years, and they have no problems. They are far more durable, and have 5x more load capacity than ball bearings, even with ceramic balls. Every time we try to speak about it publicly, we get shut down. Maybe now people will see for themselves. Everyone deserves to know how much it costs to have LN bearing failure.
Please do not take this as provocation on our end, we did not expect this to happen. Our customer will be happy to confirm this in case anyone will question our post. Please take this as a warning, and hopefully a lesson.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwcdH6NKwiwmZmRmZUlnUGJURkk/edit
https://plus.google.com/114142858650917399806/posts/Tg9H5ExDC79?pid=6132964022287110930&oid=1141428586 50917399806
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwcdH6NKwiwmek0tWDJFZGhOTHc/edit

And the battle resumes.

(Where's the popcorn emoticon?)

LOL, more info about our work here: https://www.facebook.com/porscherepairservice?ref=hl

So what proves the bearing failing is caused by the bearing? Are you going to film the tear down of the rest of the engine checking for other failures such as the chains shedding material?

We already checked the engine, nothing else is wrong. Customer also said his engine ran perfect, no noises, no problems whatsoever, just the metal shavings. We looked at the shavings, and there were no other pieces. If it was chain failure, there would be other pieces in the oil pan. There was nothing except for the bearing shavings.

Tag
 

FFR on this matter

So, you got banned from Rennlist for your behavior, and now you are here trying to start a mess?

A blind man can see straight through your motive with this post. In your video link it would help if you'd offer some narration, otherwise it appears that you are a mime, right down to the gloves.

When your technology (actually its not yours) is applied near 25,000 times, and people all over have installed them, you might graduate to a level high enough where a component fails.

Under my roof we have completed 400 IMS Retrofit procedures, dating all the way back to a time prior to 2007. Out of those we have not experienced a single failure of any IMS Retrofit product. Why? Because of the regimen that I developed and the post- process support and instruction that we provide to the vehicle owners. Qualifying the engine prior to the IMSR is just one part of the process, the job is not done when the car is finished; we must ensure the owner uses premium quality engine oil, and services the engine every 5K miles or 6 months.

That said, say what you want, the Lion isn't concerned with the opinion of the Lamb. No one will know the variables behind that failure, but what I want to know is why are you posting it, and why isn't the owner concerned enough to report this through the proper channels? Everyone reading this knows why.

Blah, blah, blah...

Self serving crap, as always. "Zero failures"? BS. You have said yourself that there are numerous failures, you just always point the blame somewhere else. I also seriously question your ridiculously (self serving) high number of 25,000. You got anything to back that up?
How about some real documented numbers on installs and ACTUAL FAILURES? You know, all of those failures that you blame on improper install or other failures causing the bearing to fail? I've researched your postings extensively, so have a rough idea and the numbers look similar to the bearing that Porsche chose.
I applaud your efforts. I really do. But all of these monkeys that follow you need a serious dose of reality. Who, in their right mind, takes advice from someone that stands to profit from that advice? I might if it weren't for the FACT that you deny any culpability and claim your creation to be bullet proof with a WHOPPING 30 DAY WARRANTY!!!

Self. Serving. Crap.
Weren't you supposed to quit the forums? You still working on that? Hurry up.

Here's a fine example:

In the thread linked below, the original poster asks if anyone else has had trouble with their LNE spin-on oil filter adapter loosening up, causing an oil leak (and possibly catastrophic engine failure when the car dumps all of its oil on the highway). You quickly replied with "I developed that component", and "we've not had that happen, even once".
Yet, in that short little thread that was just started, there are at least 2 reports in only 5 posts reporting leaks. How many more are out there?
Deny, deny, deny! Always user error, right? It's your policy ;)
I'm not saying you bring nothing to the table; I'm just saying that the something that you do bring is laced with self serving false advertising and utter denial of responsibility. I'll pass (see my signature).

You really need to stop jumping on every one of these posts and bashing these people. It makes you look really petty and small. I would go to them long before I would even think about going to you. I would also never even mention your or your company's name to anyone needing help, based solely on your bad attitude and unprofessional posts.

LN Spin On Adapter worked itself loose? - Rennlist Discussion Forums

And you are the 'person' who was ordered by Porsche USA to Cease and Desist using their good name? I'll personally make this call later today.

Screen shots saved.

Lol. Nice rants. How would you suggest ensuring every spin on adapter was properly torqued if you sold to the public?

Your posts are far more "unprofessional" and mud slinging at best, and always show up after a Raby post. Hmmmmmmmmm.....

So you have an opinion about IMS bearings. Cool story, bro!!!

News flash! Bearings fail. All of them, period. And for many reasons. It's only a matter of time. So instead of this :matchup: lets do this :cheers:. ;)

+1 :cheers:

Bearings fail.

Porsche Land had a Link to their Facebook Fanpage above. So they sell an own IMS solution: https://www.facebook.com/porscherepairservice/posts/1533054036913282

Interesting is what kind of bearing they use. I did some research in the last days - Nachi, SKF, and a lot of other manufacturers on 6204 bearings. Well, if someone does that he will note that there are a lot of differences between roller bearing and ball bearings concerning max rpm capacity.

More self serving crap from this guy here. I've never seen a post of his serve any value other than to bash others. Wish he would hurry up and quit the forums! And as he himself has stated before.....no one asked for your opinion.

Tonichristi, you go drink your LN kool-aid right now!
"The lion doesn't care about the opinion of lambs". So why spend so much time trashing the competition and people who use the competition? You remember, the customers you called "bottom feeders".
When my motor goes, I'm calling Porsche-land for that very reason.

tonichristi quoted jake Raby, and apparently has an issue following him around, only bashing him while offering no real value to the site.

+1 Bearing fail - All of them can - There is no such thing as 100% quality assurance
The bearing could have been defective
The retrofit INSTALL may not have been smooth - Does anyone know?
The original bearing was replaced so there is some Un-Known history related to the IMSB

Self serving - valid point

porsche-land - if it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck...
- Your OP is a shot at the LN bearing, that's pretty clear and I think you will get what you want here - a whole lot of threads
Can you hear all those keyboards typing away
If your products are good and prove themselves over time then others will start coming after you

Jack's point - Defending his products, a pat on the back - OK - natural pride in his work.
But one thing that is very clear (at least to me) - I see a lot of posts from Jack offering suggestions, advise and sharing his experiences and knowledge to average Joes such as my self that I don't see as being Self serving, just helping this community

just my 5 cents (accounting for inflation)

Do as you wish. Look at who started this thread, show me ONE thread that I have initiated where I opened a topic with no reason but to intentionally trash someone. You won't find it, because it doesn't exist.


Ummn, you sir, are completely wrong!!! I sell zero parts, if you click the parts tab on my site you'll be taken to a page that ends with a 404 error. I have not sold parts for these engines to anyone in over 5 years!! When you buy from LN, you are not buying from me as I have done my developmental work and been paid for it as I developed the component. By the time something goes to market I have been out of the monetary chain for 3-6 months.

!

Again, thats to be taken up with someone other than me, is not my call. If it were up to me, the products wouldn't get a warranty at all, because I know a little too much about the engines. Something else failing, taking other parts out is always my fear. Here's 6 months of our proof of this:
https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hp...44&oe=559CCD82


The fact about the spin on oil filter not loosening is also not exaggerated. I have installed these on every one of my engines since the beginning of the program. I have never had one work it's self loose. I did the development on this product as well and tried to get them to loosen during normal practices. If the prior filter is over tightened and during removal it breaks torque on the adaptor, the adaptor must be re- torqued before a replacement filter is fitted to keep the assembly from being compromised. Thats wrenching 101, but since keyboards can't hold a wrench, few people understand this today.

I was only able to have one loosen when I overtightened the oil filter by double, then broke it loose. When this was done, the filter made the adapter break torque. That was only in development, hasn't happened since.

I defend LN products because before that product was sold it got a chunk of my life, and I know that Charles and his crew are great people, trying to earn an honest living. It sucks that they have to fight with so many less- than- ethical people.

Jake, I don't know how you can stomach some of these asshats.

Tonicristi and porsche-land are relative newbys to the forum with obvious axes to grind.

Have they ever posted up to help someone out?

Has Jake?

There's your answer.

If you don't want to deal with or purchase something from Jake don't, coming onto forums to publicly bash your competition is pretty poor form and very unbecoming...........Just Sayin'

It hasn't bothered me in years. I have learned to make it an enjoyable experience.

I've learned that a lot of good comes from people that start threads like these and often, their intentions are turned around and directed back at them within just a few posts. Often times its like a self inflicted gunshot wound.

+100000000000

ouch, my eyes, my eyes!! I can't unsee the horror!!

honestly, i really hate this thread, but it's tough not to read and be informed.


https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hp...44&oe=559CCD82

FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION: We got banned from Rennlist for not being a sponsor. They do not allow advertising your company or products if you do not pay them for it. This is the only reason we got banned from there. We never got a change to get a sponsorship, you don't get banned for telling the truth.
People, research the beginning of Porsche forums, and it's history! Porsche also sent them letters in the past forbidding to use their name. We have changed the name of our company for the same exact reason, but we're still the same people doing the same work.

Owner just found out yesterday, so I guess he hasn't had time to report it yet. I assume he will want his $800 back (LOL), which he paid for a $150 part, and eventually cost him 16k. No matter who would sell these bearings, I would post the same thing anyway, because this design is faulty. Anyone else would have already admitted there is something wrong, and changes would have to be made. But not in this case.
I respect you for being good at what you do, but seeing what an ass... you can be sometimes, you loose my respect at the same time. I follow your posts too, and I see notorious contradictory statements, and I think you are over promoting yourself. You don't need it, you already do a great job, and people know you very well. Every time you go overboard and keep feeding people bs, I will point it out. Here's an example: I saw your post regarding your metal scrap. You brag about how much scrap you just threw out, supposedly from the last 6 months. That's not even 1 truck load, but it's still a lot of scrap. I remember you saying on Rennlist, maybe a couple of months ago, supposedly you just took a few army trucks worth of scrap to the yard. You needed to brag about yourself then, and now looks like you finally took it there. See what I mean? You say that you have 80 engine cores, and you ask us if we have a 3.8l crank shaft and case for sale. You have purchased our parts in the past. Let me give you this advise: tell the truth, because it's easy to remember.
You have called me a mime, I do my job right, no need to narrate it. That's how I've been brought up, I do not have to talk about my work, it speaks for itself. I don't need to narrate what is plain to see. Unlike your videos, which most are exaggerated and have horror music added to raise the tension.
Privately, if I ever wanted to install IMS upgrade in my car I'd go with the roller bearing, or if I had more money to spend I'd buy your solution. It's sad that nobody cannot admit that retrofit does have some faults, which can be very costly. Customer who just lost 16k will be able to receive his $800 back in the best case scenario.
We recently had a customer who called to ask about the IMS replacement. He has been doing his research online and on the forums. We have advised him against the retrofit, and offered him a roller bearing. He wasn't sure about this option, since he hasn't heard about it before. Then, he asked if there's anything else we know about, money is not the issue. We recommended your solution, because we know it's a good design. We always say the truth, if something is good, it's good, if it's bad, it's bad, that's the bottom line.
I'm not going to fight with you or anyone else publicly. I just have my own opinion and I'm free to express it. If people will keep buying retrofit, it's only more work for you or me :)

This Porscheland guy also used at least two different identities on Rennlist to try to conceal his 'activities'. He was also abusive, repeatedly.Just as he is in this thread.
There was a very long and patient attempt to get technical test data from him regarding the inherent weaknesses of the cylindrical roller(as opposed to deep groove ball) bearing IMSB he uses . He had no data,no technical rebuttal.Just abusive responses to technical questions.
That was a pity because we diy owners would love to have a better/cheaper IMSB solution.
Unless the technical objections against using a cylindrical roller bearing in this application are overcome it remains an unsatisfactory product compared to a plain bearing or a deep groove ball bearing(1, 1-1/2 or 2 row).
The inherent deficiencies of the cylindrical roller bearing as an IMSB have been discussed many,many times. Nobody (so far) has offered a way of overcoming these problems.
As forum members we have an unwritten obligation to call out defective products and abusive posts.Please consider this to be one such call.
I hope the Moderator intervenes.

Why would anyone do a $16K rebuild and not remove the IMS altogether?
Was a direct oil feed introduced to mitigate the possibility of IMSB failure?
Has it not been established that the inherent flaw in the use of sealed bearing, inside of an engine, is that either oil starvation or contamination can exacerbate an ageing bearing or a defective one?

It seems to me that the very point of a rebuild (that exceeds the replacement cost of the vehicle) is that the most documented modes of failure are addressed as affirmatively as possible.

Why would someone leave a variable in the equation that could sink the whole expense?

Obviously there many ways that these engines can fail and one can spend much more than $16K, but this particular mode of failure is basically defying you to ignore it once you have the whole engine is apart.

Great you have mentioned this, are you talking about the transmission guy from Ga? We have read this tread, and had a great laugh. The poor guy has been accused of being us and posting on rennlist after being banned, lol. He had no clue what everyone was talking about. He has a point about the roller bearings. But it's not us, you can google his username and details he provided in his post, and you will see this is a legitimate person who works on transmissions in Ga. From what i can remember it's Ga Precision Gear. Feel free to give him a call to confirm! He has no clue about us or previous treads, so he didn't understand everyone's comments in that tread. He purchased a roller bearing from Vertex, our competition, they sell the same roller bearings, just kit is different. He posted that he works with transmissions every day, and he knows that if everyone has used roller type bearing, none of them would break. He got smothered by all your comments, and gave up in the end. There's no way to win with all of you. He knows what I know, that's the bottom line- roller bearings are better than ball.
AMONG THE BLIND THE ONE-EYED IS KING.

Read my op again, you got it all wrong. He's out total 16k, including the newly rebuilt motor from us. That is 4k ln upgrade+clutch+aos, our rebuilt motor, local installation, etc... Our rebuilt motor has a roller bearing installed, as always.

I'll not engage any further, there's no need.

I'll just leave this right here for ya. Happy Easter!

https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hp...7a&oe=55AAF7FB

^^^ More self serving crap. :rolleyes:

They can't control user names on forums, genius. :




#1 - I've only posted a few replies to Rabies posts, nowhere near close to "always".

#2 - Why would it matter if my posts are unprofessional? I'm not on here trying to convince you to buy something (like someone else).

Can you feel the love? Tonichristi, have you ever considered Inspirational Speaking as a secondary career? I'm totally awed by the beneficial effect of your presence, as a result of your positive energy I hereby nominate you for Oracle Status!!!!

Holy hell, this is all very confusing, Roller vs LN solution now.
I've been away from the forum for 6 months so I guess I missed some new developments?

Too many variables involved to say why one failed when others did not so we can go by the Best numbers and assume that is the best scenario of a well maintained, healthy engine with a perfect install of the bearing and driven reasonably well.

Anyone got some numbers?

Maybe we need a thread "Who drove the furthest on their replaced IMS bearing so far"

I think we know the factory ones are hit and miss in the 20k to 60k range ?

Surely someone has driven the LN solution that far at least by now.

The rollers sound like something new so perhaps the mileage on those installs is not there yet?

Actually, as the owner of the copyright, they can if they so choose. "Personal use" is not a defense against infringement of the copyright laws.

+1 on that! Guy has never added anything of value to these forums that I can tell. Likes to bash others for sharing their opinion - but yet it's okay for him to share his ALWAYS negative opinion.

Ok, so y'all are killin' me. Here I am a hick engineer in Texas and the spelling, punctuation, and grammar in the preceding posts is atrocious. If y'all are intent on spewing bile on one another, at least do so without the inevitable obfuscation inherent in poor articulation, grammar, incorrect names, and missspellings. Really, get it together or go get beer. :cheers: Is everyone else taking this as seriously as I am?

Someone better let forum members Porsche9 and Porsche Chick know that and they need to change their names. I'm kidding of course, I love reading their post and think their names are cool.

Since people are not happy with this porsche-land fellows post, it's time to call Porsche on him. Childish if you ask me.

Let Jake deal with this thread, as he has done. Any regular poster here knows Jake is the M96 specialist above anyone else that post here. Jake continues to improve his inventions, he isn't set on this is good enough.

Durrrrr...Porsche USA served us with a Cease & Desist but we will still post under that name...Look at us!!! Get a life. Yeah, I'd trust my Porsche to this guy......not. Porsche-Land. Are you a real Porsche affiliate???

Same with tonitroll. Get a life and post something worth reading.....

Well that escalated quickly. Can't we all get along :D

If you had been around for awhile you'd understand...........:cheers:

Jake Raby has been a forum sponsor for quite a few years and has offered countless posts helping out forum members looking for assistance. The other two (porsche-land and tonichristi) have proven themselves to be wannabe whining ********************es going out of their way to abrade ANYONE with common sense.

Doubt me? Go to their profiles and read their prior posts.................Loser Trolls.

What I find funny about all this is "porsche land" is in Schaumburg, illinois. There are a ton of owners who live in the chicagoland area, myself being one of them. Due solely to the lack of professionalism in his posts and by his minion, I'd sooner set my car on fire than give him my business. And its also funny to me that when you look up the guys who are the who's who of Porsche service around Chicago, you'll never find their shop mentioned once.