78-83 911sc
 

Once again, I am turning to my brothers and sisters on the 986Forum for advice on buying another Porsche - this time I am considering a 78-83 911 SC. I plan to use the car mostly on the weekends and no track duty.

I have been wanting to own an air cooled 911 for quite some time and now might be a good time to make it happen.

I am going to test drive and inspect the '78 Targa below tomorrow. Seller is asking well under $20K with 155K miles.

Your thoughts? All feedback welcome!

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/...psd109d66e.jpg

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/...ps60466958.jpg

Being an air cooled convert my opinion is totally biased, having said that I know there are a few common areas of concern for the original 911's; head studs, hydraulic chain tensioners, valve guides, etc. If it were me, a PPI with a leakdown test after much research into the series' general strong points and common maladies;

The Pre-Purchase Inspection by Peter Zimmermann - Rennlist Discussion Forums

911 Forum - Rennlist Discussion Forums

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WARNING!!!!! I had forgotten that in the second video I linked above that there was something mentioned around the 30:20 mark that could be construed as derogatory to the Boxster. If that sort of thing gets you all worked up and offended please jump from there to the 31 minute mark and save the pantie wadding for something worthy......;)

Well, that was eye-opening.

In the "Here's Why You Must Buy A Porsche 911 Today" video, check out what these two 911 experts have to say about the Boxster. Fast forward to the 29:57 to 30:30 minute mark.

TO

p.s Just saw coresellers last post. No pandie wadding here, just an eye-opening, as mentioned before.

Head studs are the big weak point on this car, but your PPI should catch that.

Another thing is, Targa tops can be really bad leakers. Mine was really bad and the seals and rebuilding the top is really expensive. Even after all that it would still leak a little until I got a saratoga top for it.

Other than that, they are great cars. Replace the stock exhaust with some pre 74 heat exchanges and a free flowing muffler and the car will really come alive. The CIS fuel injection does not have the best throttle response, but replacing the exhaust system really helped mine.

Super fun cars, I sometimes regret selling mine.

78-83 911sc
 

If I remember correctly, the instigator of this drives a late model mr2.... Hrmmmmmm

As for op, looks like a great car, I've always loved targas! Hope you snag a good one.

Don't forget about installing a pop-off valve on the airbox. The 3.0L is well known for back firing and blowing the expensive airbox. If the one you are looking at has it already you are set otherwise its a fairly cheap and easy mod.

These are old cars and you can expect little things to come up. Mine got me stuck a couple times in the first few months until I got throught the age related crap.

The exhaust recommendation is a really good one. It really changes to character of the car.

You have to keep in mind, these guys are co-owners of Classic Car Club Manhattan (Classic Car Club Manhattan) where members spend stupid money to drive cool exotics, like it or not the Boxster isn't quite in that category.

I've considered one of these too. The last time looked prices were way high for these for a decent shape car. If asking price is under 20k buy it and run. Just make sure engine and body is decent. I've seen 30-50k for these cars lately and I've followed 911SC's for awhile. Buy it...

I don't know much about the older cars, but is one fine looking 911

Have you checked out 964s?

Buy it before the price doubles in 6 months! Everything air cooled is going for crazy prices.

Prices have more than doubled here in the Bay Area.

What's crazy is that my dad bought his '91 964 Targa (C2) w/ 145k miles in mid-2011 for about $17k, and that's after the previous owner sunk $13k into it in the three years before he sold it. :eek: Also included an engine re-seal as well.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...255B1%255D.JPG

I know some dislike the old targas, but I think they're fantastic. He does need to have the roof on his rebuilt, however (to eliminate wind and water leaks).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06piJBFmFoY

Despite an ims crack, they are hard core loving on the cayman S in this video, i guess the cayman>boxster strategy works on even the most well versed enthusiast.:ah:

Yes, I have looked at and driven some 964's. Great car, but almost too modern for me (coil suspension, ABS, power steering, rising rear spoiler, etc). Looking for something more raw and basic.

+1 This is same advice that I received from a friend who owns at least 12 air cooled Porsches. He thought the price might be too good to be true.

Coreseller, thanks for the videos!

I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

No problem Tom, Good Luck......:cheers:

The attention that the air cooled 911's have received over the past couple of years (Magnus Walker, Singer, Rauh Welt Begriff, Drive Channel, etc.) has definitely affected values. Many articles and blogs espousing the Zen-like attributes of whichever pre-996 series can seem to be a bit much and make many eyes roll (mine too), BUT, they are a completely different animal to drive and there's a reason for the aforementioned hype.

I would love to have mine back. The targa top is a leaker, not as comfortable to drive as the newer cars but a big head turner.

Hey guys, I drove the SC this morning and the car is in very good shape. The worst that I could find was some minor rust around the left rear window sill and a few spots on the edge of the passenger door. Other needs are the seats need re-leather (hence the seat covers) and there are a few oil drips underneath (but then what old 911 doesn't leak a little?).

Otherwise, very good. Paint is very good, tires new, brakes/rotors new, engine all original. Except for the seats, the interior is in very good shape. Targa doesn't leak. Everything is stock except the aftermarket steering wheel which the original owner had installed around 1979.

It rode and drove perfectly. Engine pulled strongly and the trans shifted smoothly. Clutch felt fine. No rattles. I had a blast on just the test drive.

Current owner bought it in 1980 and has owned it ever since. Seller said three times that the price was negotiable. PPI scheduled for Monday morning. If everything checks out ok, it will probably be in my driveway on Monday evening. :)

Here are a pair of pic's from this morning;

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/...ps37f02377.jpg

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/...psdb2634ba.jpg

Can you let me know if you pass on this. I'll be on Manhattan Beach all week next week.

Thanks

I have two friends who said the same thing! Luckily, this car isn't listed for sale anywhere and I am keeping the seller's information quiet so I don't end up in a bidding war. :)

Now you know you have a great deal there

Great color combo, LOVE the Fuchs wheels. If it were me I'd leave the seat covers along with anything / everything else as is and drive the heck out of it, I have a buddy with that series (coupe, black in and out also) and his has over 300k on it, still runs very strong. Hoping everything checks out......:cheers:

Good luck! It certainly looks fantastic.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but keep these things in mind...

The 77 VW bug conv I bought for my winter project has brittle wire insulation, petrified gas line, and sketchy ground wires. It's 37 yrs old, that's par for the course.

And we wax nostolgic for cars of our youth and remember all the good things about them. Plus we think cars of yesterday are reliable like cars today and they'll go 150K care free mi. Remember how we used to sell cars at 70K mi because they'd be junk at 100K? No one wanted a car back then w/ 100K mi. The VW has already stranded me on a short jaunt around the neighborhood. A VW mechanic stopped to help me and said my best purchase would be Triple A towing service.

That 78 is a beautiful looking car in the pics. Just remember it's 36 yrs old and there's bound to be foibles.

+1 An excellent reminder of the realities of owning older cars. Everything you say is accurate and thanks for bringing me back down to earth just in time for the PPI tomorrow morning. Now I can inspect the car with my usual cynical, jaded, and untrusting point of view. I'll be ticking dollars off that asking price as fast as a gas station pump ringing up the total. But I have to say that I felt pretty good up in the clouds the last few days.

And yes, I already have AAA towing with the extended range option. :)

I would think you could stay "up in the clouds" as long as you realize that initial maintenance will encompass more than what is the norm.

And there's a reason why the owner "is asking well under $20K".

Good luck..................and just sayin'..........

TO

Double that and I'm saying that from experience on my '78 SC which at the time was just 25 years old. Still loved every minute of it but I did learn the hard way what old cars are about. One good thing about the SC is their motor is known to last 200k plus.

Hope the PPI goes well and I am jealous.

Point: All very good advice, but given the current market on these cars taking time to think it over could quickly cause you to lose your place in line, especially if the seller learns of the demand these cars are in. When I bought my 993 locally a few years back it was literally hours after it hit Autotrader on the web, while looking at it in the first 20 minutes the guy's phone went off 8 different times, at the hour mark when we struck a deal it rang nearly 30 times, not exaggerating. I initially thought it may of been a ploy but later asked the seller (we still correspond) and they were legit, half of them brokers.

Counterpoint: My initial search for what proved to be a unicorn to me; a 1980 911SC in Venetian Blue sans rear spoiler, did indeed open my eyes to exactly what Husker was referring to, a lot of hidden work. Having no stomach to dig deep and go into full restoration efforts I then decided to buy a garage queen example of the newest air cooled version which even then needed attention / updating.

This would be my advice, if you love DRIVING this particular Porsche, then go to step #2, consider the expense of running this car. Being that you are handy that shouldn't be too much of issue as there is a wealth of information on the SC forums. I follow Rennlist member Wachuko's restorations and man does that guy do some awesome backyard work that comes out looking A+. See 83 911 to RSR project below
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...psd50d692a.jpg


That being said, this a Targa. Maybe since you live So Cal that would nice. But being that you're someone that hits the track often, I would think that your only air-cooled car would have a bit more edge to it. If I were intent to own a project car/garage queen, I'd look for a car that I could turn into an RS replica. I'm making my way through Total911's RS Book. Those replica cars are very, very sought after, and not to mention a blast to drive. For a guy like you, that can do much of his own work, that could be a great opportunity to build up a car. I'd have a hangar full of these projects if I had the space and time. In other words I like the idea of SELLING into this distorted market for air-cooled Carreras, I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of buying into it.

As far as pricing, I'll just say this briefly: *any* market that sees an dramatic jump away from its historical average, is not a market I trust one bit. Especially with what is going on in the stock market now. The jumping-the-shark in Carrera prices have coincided with the overly prolonged stock market rally. At the end of the day, these are used cars, not collector cars, thus they cast a wider net as far buyers beyond the super wealthy. A shake up in credit markets, could quickly shake up all these inflated prices. So I wouldn't put a lot of equity into all this "my car was worth X five years ago... bla bla". Good for you, you got a deal. The real issue is how best can you avoid this kind of market distortion to get what you want.
You seem to have found one of the best ways, the quick seller. The other way, a car that is solid engine wise, doesn't need any metal work but could use some attention in other areas may be a better way to reduce the over-crowded bidding pool. I think it's just like houses now, do you want to out-bid other house hunters in an over-bought market for a turn-key house or do you want to put a little sweat equity behind your cash and potentially reap a big reward later.

That excuse has nothing to do with their turning their noses up at Boxsters. Many used Boxsters sell for as much as air-cooled 911's. And at the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of air-cooled 911, unless it's a 73 RS or similar, have not recouped their original sticker prices, especially when you consider how incredibly expensive they were in eras of steep interest rates. So most of the 911's these guys are talking about are still firmly in the used car category and not at all in the exotic car category. They turn their noses up at Boxsters because they don't know the full Porsche history. If these guys did, namely that it goes further than 1964, they would know that the Boxster is the quintessential Porsche. The very first 356A (#1 circa 1948) that rolled off assembly for Ferry Porsche, who was dissatisfied with what he'd driven at the time and wanted a one-off Porsche for his own personal use, had only two seats, had no top, and the engine sat in the middle. The very first Porsche ever... was essentially a Boxster by design. These guys in the video you posted have a vested interest in pushing the post 1964 era of Porsche... or maybe they started drinking the Boxster-dissing kool-aide straight away.

Porsche 356A #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTcEB3h0cgQ

Well said!

The worst that I could find was some minor rust around the left rear window sill and a few spots on the edge of the passenger door.

Be really careful with this... All the post 76' 911s are factory galvanized and in my experience, rarely rust at all. if your seeing rust, there's much more that your not seeing. I would take a really, really close look at the area around the rear window inside the car.

When I was looking I only saw one that had any rust damage and it was due to a repaint. At first it looked ok, but when I poked around under the sound mat in the engine bay, I saw that the fire wall was really starting to go.

every time I see "experts" try to mock the Box I can only do a face palm.


I thought this was kind of cool. I got your mid-engine right here...

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/s...0/P1060390.jpg

That took longer than I expected. Right after posting up the videos trying to help out the OP'er I winced and thought of you, leading me to post the follow up "Warning", apparently to no avail. Why you are so concerned (and ready to get offended) with others perception of your vehicle is beyond me, drive it and enjoy it.

I hope the targa checks out for you Tom........:cheers:

LOL. Saw that long before you posted it as I subscribe to DRIVE.

For the record, I replied to your poor excuse-making and not their opinions that are based on obvious and perfectly reasonable self interest. Also, I doubt I'm the only one who has tired of your knee-jerking preaching on this forum. I too am perplexed, but it's why you are so ALWAYS so concerned (and possibly offended) whenever discourse on this Porsche vs. that Porsche goes in a direction that you feel is not to your liking. Read the forum and enjoy it.

Cool, I have the same model. I also have a Porsche No. 1 coffee mug that I use every day at work. When someone asks about it and they are interested I am always more then happy to share a little history about No. 1 and that the current car most similar to it is the Boxster.

Now back to the program - 911SC Targa purchase. :)

Keep talking lol, I'm frankly embarrassed for you.

I did not make the video, write the script for the video, endorse the video, etc. I posted it up as a response to the OP'er looking for advice / opinions on an air cooled 911.

I did chuckle at your preaching comment, especially since I have less than 20% of your post count.

okay and don't forget your soap box on the way out.