Boxster V8

[DarkStar]

What? BC I'm not quite sure what your getting at? 250hp has NEVER been ok in my eyes. Porsche may think so, Purists may think so. But the automotive enthusiast community for the entire history of the wheel does not. The world of enthusiasts have thrived to produced a better car than factory. Honda's with thousands of HP, Muscle Cars with the agile suspension of a sports car. Cars with Jet Engines. You purists keep on this binge of "The car is perfect the way it is"... No its not! Not in any way is it perfect. There are a thousand cars, including cars you would insult like a Honda or Toyota that are more perfect than the Porsche. Especially the Porsche Boxster. You want a Porsche that is perfect. I give you the 918! And even then, there are purists that talk crap about it. "Electric Motor, AWD! It doesn't look like an old 60's Porsche, RAWR! How Dare them!" Just Stop! Yeah sure I did? Actually, Yes! I did! And Have, And Do! Every single Day! I did not purchase my car for its performance, or lack there of. Its the slowest vehicle I've owned. Speed and performance were not on my mind when I was signing the paper work. In fact a little of the opposite. I was leaving a high horsepower, fast AWD sports car with little reliability that was getting me no where in life, to move onto a car, (It didn't have to be the Porsche, and it wasn't my first choice) that would help me build my credit up. Something I failed to do as a youngster. Something I let slip. I chose the Porsche because it at the time was the only car worth a damn I could finance. It was either the Porsche, or a Ford Focus. Mind you, I didn't need to finance, I could have kept going without car payments, But I wanted them. So what better choice. So don't come in here thinking the Boxster is soo high and mighty, it isn't. I'm sorry if that doesn't make friends around here but... Oh Well! Its the truth. Live with it, or move on.

And whos being negative? I thought we were talking shop.... Nerv isn't being flamed one bit. At least not by anyone I've seen. Were all simply talking shop. Something car people do. We talk, we nag, we argue, we contemplate and we daydream. I'm completely for what he is doing. More Options, the better.

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[Pdwight]

04 Cayenne Turbo AWD Porsche 955 Complete Engine 4 5 Motor V8 144 588 | eBay

02 Boxster s rwd Porsche 986 Complete Engine 3 2 Motor M96 21 M96 21 64 590 | eBay

and if you want to go big

Complete 3.6L M96.03 Dropout Engine Porsche 911 Carrera 996 320hp M96 2002-05

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by Pdwight

04 Cayenne Turbo AWD Porsche 955 Complete Engine 4 5 Motor V8 144 588 | eBay

02 Boxster s rwd Porsche 986 Complete Engine 3 2 Motor M96 21 M96 21 64 590 | eBay

and if you want to go big

Complete 3.6L M96.03 Dropout Engine Porsche 911 Carrera 996 320hp M96 2002-05

10k for 320hp to the fly... a prime example of fail. The Boxsters 3.2 can be turbocharged to produce much more for less. Even the expensive TPC Turbo kit is ubder 10 grand, and has room for lots of extra.



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[BoxsterLS376]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Like BoxsterLS376 Said, he went the WAYYY expensive route. 8 Grand For only 480hp, But he got a warranty (ehh, not bad). I love his build and hope to speak to him soon regarding my swap. (Yeah you still haven't responded to me on youtube :'( lol) But as I said earlier, Junkyard 5.3L Cast Iron (80lbs heavier than the aluminum block) or 5.3L Aluminum LS Engines, can produce 450whp with no turbo on them. People are doing it every day in old muscle cars by cam, head work, and some tuning. And thats daily driven reliable. You can pickup Stock LS1's with Transmission, Harness and ECU these days for 1200 bucks from Trans Ams, Camaro's, GTO's.

Ahh yes I remember seeing your post on Youtube but to be honest I don't have time to respond to things in more then one place which is why I redirect people here to ask questions! I don't recall your exact comment but based on your statement think I recall...

It's not to say a used motor wouldn't be just fine for this, but there were a number of reasons I went the route I did. The key word in your statement is "CAN"!

First off I don't know where you are buying complete LS1 motors with transmissions, ECU and wiring harness for $1200, cause they ain't that cheap around here!!! I'm sure you "CAN" find them out there for that price, but very few and far between~

For reference a quick Ebay search for LS1 engine will show the cheapest engine/trans out there right now is $3000 with an automatic... perhaps you can get a complete 5.3 for that price, but regardless, what are you getting for that price?

I wasn't going to bother doing this project to put a 300HP motor in place of the 250HP motor, plus what you are getting for that price is a used 100K+ mile motor and while the motor itself may be good for 200K or more, all of the little things on the motor have 100K too so you will start to have issues like coils going bad etc.

By the time you take a "junkyard" motor, rebuild it to a point that I would be satisfied with it from a reliability (bearings, seals etc.), and satisfied with power (400+), you can easily spend more then the $8k I spent on a brand new motor, that makes 480HP, and has a warranty AND I DON'T HAVE TO PUT ANY EXTRA WORK INTO!!!!!

The math is simple... just the basics and doing the work yourself~

Used LS1 motor = $3000~
Built cylinder heads = $1500~
Big camshaft = $600~
Rebuild kit = $800~
Upgraded rockers = $500~

Assuming that your used motor came with ECU/wiring then I would have spent at least $6400 to rebuild a used 100K mile motor. That is assuming that everything else in the motor is good and it doesn't need any major parts or machine work.

Could you just buy a used motor and throw it in, sure, but part of the idea was to make an easily replicated platform to build these cars on. It is just easier to call up Chevy and say SEND ME THIS.... and cut a check, then it would be to source used motors, rebuild them and then deal with the possible problems.


The thought process behind my build was to come up with a reasonable replacement for the lousy motors Porsche put into these things, that could be easily replicated.

Let us also not forget how much more money you have to spend on the little things which do add up fast... Motor mounts, transmission mounts, cooling and exhaust system, which I'm afraid to add up lately cause I already blew my budget but was something like $5-$6K... SO FAR. Car is almost done, but that is just the conversion.... I haven't gotten into brakes, suspension etc.


I definitely applaud what the NERV guys are trying to do but question their logic on many things... time for another post~

[BoxsterLS376]

So I eluded to some of these things in my previous posts but I would like to point them out directly...

1. Starting with a base Boxster. What would you not focus this package towards people who are more performance oriented? You have 2 types of people who would consider this conversion, people who already own and love their cars, but have suffered an engine failure, or people who are going to buy these cars to convert to a V8.

... So take option one, the guys who went out and bought a non-s boxster, owned it for 10+ years and have been satisfied with it, do they all of a sudden feel the need for speed and want a V8 in their base boxster? Probably not...

... Option two~ people who go out and buy these cars with the intention of putting a V8 in it... Why would they not go buy an "S"? It is a much better platform, the suspension, brakes, cooling system, so someone building one on a budget would either have to upgrade these things or be driving in an unsafe car... not to say people don't do this all the time, but it is one more thing you will be forced to spend money on, when you could start with an "S" and be much better and safer to begin with.

To use the argument that you "can find nice base Boxsters cheap" is completely invalid, because you can find VERY nice "S" models very cheap.

2. Engine choice... so you are building this entire platform on a motor that hasn't been built or put into a car in over 15 years?? Why would you do that? I'm sure the motors are out there, but why? Do a quick Ebay search for your Audi ABZ engine... I came up with 3 results... 3 and one of those is in the UK! Sure they are cheap, but they are cheap for a reason!!! Just wait til you have to get that pig through emissions and have to deal with Catalytic converter check engine lights etc...

3. "no cutting direct bolt in" - this will be interesting to see. So I guess for ease of installation not having to cut anything to get it in would be nice. But it was mentioned that you could bolt the stock motor back in... again, WHY??? Are you trying to preserve these cars so that in 50 years they can be converted back to original and be worth half a million bucks like a 356 speedster?

NO ONE. NO. ONE. Who does this conversion will EVER be concerned about converting their car back to stock. EVER. NEVER EVER. EVER. These car will NEVER go back up in value unless they have a greater significance to them, ie. VIN #1 or owned by Michael Jordan. They will never be rare, there are over 300,000 Boxsters out there.

Ok I'm done ranting for now.

[smshirk]

A price point under 10k seems highly unlikely to me. If that does happen i would think you couldn't make them fast enough. Replacing an M96 motor right now is a very expensive proposition. 10k would be a real bargain for anyone wanting to keep his 986 on the road. I spent twice that to ensure mine keeps running and it wasn't even broke.

[DarkStar]

Your previous message directed at me isn't showing up on the web, however I have it on my phone... lol IDK.

Anyway, All I have to say towards the price is you gotta shop. I've found people who are ready to yank their LS3's out of their running Corvettes to toss in their newly built motors for 3grand. Harness, ECU, Motor. I've pulled Harness, ECU, Motor and Transmission from wrecked T/A's and Camaro's for around $1200

Even this engine swap with transmission and ECU cost 1200 plus the welding, pipes, etc... All the things needed to swap it in.

And if I remember correctly, it was like a 80k LS1 with a T56. We ended up doing some head work and tossed in a Cam before strapping it all down.

As for the 5.3L... As you said, yes it doesn't put down much power Stock. But the parts to set it up isn't too bad. Not as bad as you have quoted. Really, Just google Junkyard 5.3L, and you'll find tons of pages dedicated to different magazines, shops, and people who have spent chump change on building it to easilly put down a reliable 500hp. Stock or Built. Lots of the Magazine websites you find tho, will be dedicated more towards converting it to carburated, for using in older cars. Then you got the boosted guys.

Here's a quick one I pulled up on the 5.3L.
594HP 5.3L Gen III Small Block for $3,252

My 5.3L cost me $280. And I don't plan on keeping most of the internals. Just to be safe. It came with two sets of headers which I'll prob sell.. Maybe. One are some cheap Shorty headers which might be useful. No Intake Manifold since it will be switched to the cars manifold and no AC Compressor or Injectors. I picked up some injectors for 80 bucks that can handle some boost. Connecting Rods from SCAT for 500. Forged Pistons for 400 to $$$$. Haven't decided on Pistons Yet. Crank can handle tons of boost stock. So I'll just send it to the machine shop to get polished and knife'd. Got some locals with a garage packed of LSx Parts. I'm hoping to pickup an ECU, and Harness for 600. And a low profile oil pan for 100.

5.3L $300
Forged Rods 500 +/-
Forged Pistons 600 +/-
Engine Management 600
Oil Pan 100

Haven't selected a Cam yet but I'm up to 2000 dollars for a built LS ready for tons of boost. Yes I do plan to turbo. But you don't have to, to get lots of power. Heads and Cam LS Motors put out a lot.

I am in no way against your build J. I think its awesome. And you are completely right. You get a 480hp LS3 with a Warranty. That is super wicked!

How to Boost a 5.3L LS Engine to 611-Horsepower - Super Chevy Magazine

611hp with stock cam. Anyway, Enough of the arguing on that.

I totally agree with you. Esp on the boxsters can be had cheap. Lots of places will sell them for low prices. Hell didn't the other guy in the V8 Thread pay only like 3k for his without a motor?

A price point under 10k is highly unlikely. The Swap parts from Renegade are close to 5k alone. You'd need to get motor and harness for cheap cheap. I'm looking at 12k with my built, Turbocharged setup and I plan on building some of my own brackets instead of going the Renegade way. Even saw the guy in the other v8 Thread doing different Power Steering Setups for much cheaper than Renegades kit.

Renegade develops a nice product. But it doesn't have to be the only option.

Again I'm sorry if I come off rude or whatever. Not meant to be towards NERV or J. You both are an inspiration and I applaud you both.

J, I'll pm you.

[BoxsterLS376]

Not rude a bit! That is what discussion forums are for!

I'm certainly not saying that it can't be done for less, but I wanted to easily be able to replicate my build for the purposes of doing installations for customers. Which is the biggest reason why I went with the full Renegade setup, new crate motor etc.

I'm not trying to compete with what NERV is doing and don't plan at this point to try and fabricate my own installation kit to compete with Renegade. The biggest reason I posted everything about my build is to point out to everyone who is thinking about this sort of project just how much time/effort or money is involved if you don't DIY~


I guess the biggest reason I'm posting in this thread is because it is completely illogical to me on so many different levels... I mean...


Is it just me?!?!

[DarkStar]

I hate it when you type up a lot, and the post doesn't go through and you cant recover it lol.

Anyway, No I totally get it. Which is why I'm posting as well. Your option, the way you went is very much a legit option. Its a Warrantied (Well the install isn't unless you'd warranty the install), Its clean. I've still yet to see your firewall work to cover the motor. I saw the other guys and didn't like the huge box cover. When its clearly not needed, the engine doesn't seem to portrude into the cabin at all. Which is why I was thinking of using some wire to hold some blocks into place on the motor, and then some sheet metal and beat it into place. The Blocks will be used to space out the engine from the firewall.

Installing a motor that is hard to come by but easy to install vs. an engine that is super easy to come by but requires some DIY... I mean while were at it, we can do a 2JZ or RB26. You want to save space? Nissan just released a 400hp 3Cyl Turbo Motor that weighs a whopping 88lbs! Mitsubishi 4G63 Turbocharged 4Cylinder engines are known for outputting 1500whp. Stock 4g63's can put down 800whp. Nissan SR20's. I just had some guy mad at me for doing yet ANOTHER LSx Swap... he told me "Why not swap in a Coyotte, They blow the LSx away!" ... Yeah Uhm, No! In so many ways, No!

I will argue the LSx, Just because I know first hand what it is. Yeah its Pretty long, What are you expecting? Your adding another row of 4" Pistons. But the gains outweigh the work done and the Cost. At this point, I'll put an LSx in anything! lol. Unless another motor is found that can dish it out with the competition.

This same setup with just a cam made 711whp!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHGxrAENwMs

[GTA_G20]

I personally bought a 97 boxster with a blown motor 7 years ago as a toy. I then bought a 3.6L and 80% of the electrical. Then started calling around to see which indy would swap it.
1 year later I bought a used 2.5. $5k installed

I personally have little interest in taking a sawzall to my boxster to cram a chevy in there. Swaps 5k and under is reasonable. 5k swap for 300hp v8 is a no brainer to me. Especially comimg from 205hp.

anything over 5k im buying a new car

[Pdwight]

As was stated very eloquently , there are two different mindsets here. I am of the one who likes his Boxster and while I would love to drive the LS conversion just to experience it I think closer to home would be what I would want. An extra 100 HP would be more than enough for this 60 year old if the car remained pretty much stock otherwise. It has nothing to do with converting it back to stock....if Achme came out with a 350 HP bullet proof engine that bolted in I would be up for it. That was one of the reasons I posed the question why not a Cayenne V8...or are they riddled with their own set of problems.

I like a spirited discussions but I am in no way starting a flame war. PS I looked around the Southeast and good LS's are no where to be found for 1200 bucks here

[DarkStar]

No flame war... we're just automotive talking.

And I live in the Southeast. Plenty of LS engines from 4.8 up to built LSx. There's a couple 5.3s, an LS1 and an LS3 in new mexicos locals. .. plus tonnnnnssssss of people with parts galore. One of the LS1s I just saw today we're going for 800. No trans or ecu tho.

www.RacingSouthwest.com or www.TrueStreetCars.com

Like I said, I just picked up a 5.3 for 280. Local. He was asking 500, as I called and we spoke turns out it's a friend of a friend. So I got him down to 280. Hehe. Also New Mexico UPULLANDSAVE has quite a few.

Originally Posted by Pdwight

As was stated very eloquently , there are two different mindsets here. I am of the one who likes his Boxster and while I would love to drive the LS conversion just to experience it I think closer to home would be what I would want. An extra 100 HP would be more than enough for this 60 year old if the car remained pretty much stock otherwise. It has nothing to do with converting it back to stock....if Achme came out with a 350 HP bullet proof engine that bolted in I would be up for it. That was one of the reasons I posed the question why not a Cayenne V8...or are they riddled with their own set of problems.

I like a spirited discussions but I am in no way starting a flame war. PS I looked around the Southeast and good LS's are no where to be found for 1200 bucks here

[stephen wilson]

How do these engine swaps get registered and inspected ( legally )? In N.J. it looks like I'm SOL unless the engine is from a newer car, by the same manufacturer, and class of vehicle. I'd love to do a swap on my Toyota, but same problem...

[BoxsterLS376]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

How do these engine swaps get registered and inspected ( legally )? In N.J. it looks like I'm SOL unless the engine is from a newer car, by the same manufacturer, and class of vehicle. I'd love to do a swap on my Toyota, but same problem...

In Georgia all it has to do is pass the OBD readiness test which basically means if you don't have a check engine light on you pass.

The emissions place simply scanned the car and when they went to plug it up I just redirected them to the GM OBD port in stead of the factory port. Done and done.
J

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

How do these engine swaps get registered and inspected ( legally )? In N.J. it looks like I'm SOL unless the engine is from a newer car, by the same manufacturer, and class of vehicle. I'd love to do a swap on my Toyota, but same problem...

New Mexico is emissions Nazis... not like cali but as long as it passes an OBD2 check (passes 2/3rds of the tests built into the CEL system) it passes emissions. Most states are the same. Some are more lenient. But I always say, they don't need to know what's under the hood. Lol find yourself a friend that works at an emissions place and troubles are solved.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Ask your insurance company.Why do you ask personal advice?
Please understand the Insurance Co. objective when presented with a claim is to avoid paying it.You are helping them in that objective if there is the slightest opportunity to avoid paying. The worst part-they have and lots of practice at this game and they wrote the policy you signed.

Not to dredge this subject up again, but just FYI - I have a 1972 Datsun 240Z with a Chevy 350 conversion (oh, if the Boxster was so easy!). State Farm had no problem with it - just filled out a form telling them what has been done to it, and it is fine.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by smshirk

A price point under 10k seems highly unlikely to me. If that does happen i would think you couldn't make them fast enough. Replacing an M96 motor right now is a very expensive proposition. 10k would be a real bargain for anyone wanting to keep his 986 on the road. I spent twice that to ensure mine keeps running and it wasn't even broke.

But out the door for $15k is not terrible. Yes, it is > the value of the car, but that horse has left the barn. I'd *rather* spend $15k for a 500hp LSx than a 350hp Audi, but it might come down to the install. If Nerv can truly provide a the "plug and play" solution as he claims, I may forgo the 150hp (can't believe i just typed that!). The Renegade LSx install is WAY out of my skill mix, but I can bolt on some parts and drop an engine in...

[Dualist]

I'm totally against having a big yank lump in the back of my car whenever it decides lets go, I'm 6ft 3 and the is no way I'm gonna move my seat forward 2-3". So the audi is the best option for me (aswell as it bolting straight up to a gearbox that fits properly), ok it maybe down on power but that's why turbos were invented

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by Dualist

I'm totally against having a big yank lump in the back of my car whenever it decides lets go, I'm 6ft 3 and the is no way I'm gonna move my seat forward 2-3". So the audi is the best option for me (aswell as it bolting straight up to a gearbox that fits properly), ok it maybe down on power but that's why turbos were invented

Why would you need to move your seat forward 2-3"? The LSx Doesn't Portrude into the cabin at all. Yes you'll need to make a new front cover if you ended up hacking it up to make room, which isn't hard at all if you know how to beat on some thin sheet metal with a hammer lol... Keeping a few inches of space between your newly created firewall/front cover, you should still have more than enough room to reinstall the stock carpet mat and keep it looking stock. Just like mostly everyone has done.



Then you add on the Coolant Plate and Hoses, add something thats like half an inch thick to act as a spacer between the engine and your newly created firewall, start hammering down to get shape and eventually you'll have a nice shape and not lose any cabin space.

Might even be able to Rhino Line it thick enough to act as some sound deadener.

[Dualist]

Sorry Josh, but after seeing Martsink's photo....



I thought that was space that I need as I haven't seen John's firewall fitted, looks like I jumped to the wrong conclusion on that, sorry bud.