Boxster V8

[DarkStar]

Your previous message directed at me isn't showing up on the web, however I have it on my phone... lol IDK.

Anyway, All I have to say towards the price is you gotta shop. I've found people who are ready to yank their LS3's out of their running Corvettes to toss in their newly built motors for 3grand. Harness, ECU, Motor. I've pulled Harness, ECU, Motor and Transmission from wrecked T/A's and Camaro's for around $1200

Even this engine swap with transmission and ECU cost 1200 plus the welding, pipes, etc... All the things needed to swap it in.

And if I remember correctly, it was like a 80k LS1 with a T56. We ended up doing some head work and tossed in a Cam before strapping it all down.

As for the 5.3L... As you said, yes it doesn't put down much power Stock. But the parts to set it up isn't too bad. Not as bad as you have quoted. Really, Just google Junkyard 5.3L, and you'll find tons of pages dedicated to different magazines, shops, and people who have spent chump change on building it to easilly put down a reliable 500hp. Stock or Built. Lots of the Magazine websites you find tho, will be dedicated more towards converting it to carburated, for using in older cars. Then you got the boosted guys.

Here's a quick one I pulled up on the 5.3L.
594HP 5.3L Gen III Small Block for $3,252

My 5.3L cost me $280. And I don't plan on keeping most of the internals. Just to be safe. It came with two sets of headers which I'll prob sell.. Maybe. One are some cheap Shorty headers which might be useful. No Intake Manifold since it will be switched to the cars manifold and no AC Compressor or Injectors. I picked up some injectors for 80 bucks that can handle some boost. Connecting Rods from SCAT for 500. Forged Pistons for 400 to $$$$. Haven't decided on Pistons Yet. Crank can handle tons of boost stock. So I'll just send it to the machine shop to get polished and knife'd. Got some locals with a garage packed of LSx Parts. I'm hoping to pickup an ECU, and Harness for 600. And a low profile oil pan for 100.

5.3L $300
Forged Rods 500 +/-
Forged Pistons 600 +/-
Engine Management 600
Oil Pan 100

Haven't selected a Cam yet but I'm up to 2000 dollars for a built LS ready for tons of boost. Yes I do plan to turbo. But you don't have to, to get lots of power. Heads and Cam LS Motors put out a lot.

I am in no way against your build J. I think its awesome. And you are completely right. You get a 480hp LS3 with a Warranty. That is super wicked!

How to Boost a 5.3L LS Engine to 611-Horsepower - Super Chevy Magazine

611hp with stock cam. Anyway, Enough of the arguing on that.

I totally agree with you. Esp on the boxsters can be had cheap. Lots of places will sell them for low prices. Hell didn't the other guy in the V8 Thread pay only like 3k for his without a motor?

A price point under 10k is highly unlikely. The Swap parts from Renegade are close to 5k alone. You'd need to get motor and harness for cheap cheap. I'm looking at 12k with my built, Turbocharged setup and I plan on building some of my own brackets instead of going the Renegade way. Even saw the guy in the other v8 Thread doing different Power Steering Setups for much cheaper than Renegades kit.

Renegade develops a nice product. But it doesn't have to be the only option.

Again I'm sorry if I come off rude or whatever. Not meant to be towards NERV or J. You both are an inspiration and I applaud you both.

J, I'll pm you.

[BoxsterLS376]

Not rude a bit! That is what discussion forums are for!

I'm certainly not saying that it can't be done for less, but I wanted to easily be able to replicate my build for the purposes of doing installations for customers. Which is the biggest reason why I went with the full Renegade setup, new crate motor etc.

I'm not trying to compete with what NERV is doing and don't plan at this point to try and fabricate my own installation kit to compete with Renegade. The biggest reason I posted everything about my build is to point out to everyone who is thinking about this sort of project just how much time/effort or money is involved if you don't DIY~


I guess the biggest reason I'm posting in this thread is because it is completely illogical to me on so many different levels... I mean...


Is it just me?!?!

[DarkStar]

I hate it when you type up a lot, and the post doesn't go through and you cant recover it lol.

Anyway, No I totally get it. Which is why I'm posting as well. Your option, the way you went is very much a legit option. Its a Warrantied (Well the install isn't unless you'd warranty the install), Its clean. I've still yet to see your firewall work to cover the motor. I saw the other guys and didn't like the huge box cover. When its clearly not needed, the engine doesn't seem to portrude into the cabin at all. Which is why I was thinking of using some wire to hold some blocks into place on the motor, and then some sheet metal and beat it into place. The Blocks will be used to space out the engine from the firewall.

Installing a motor that is hard to come by but easy to install vs. an engine that is super easy to come by but requires some DIY... I mean while were at it, we can do a 2JZ or RB26. You want to save space? Nissan just released a 400hp 3Cyl Turbo Motor that weighs a whopping 88lbs! Mitsubishi 4G63 Turbocharged 4Cylinder engines are known for outputting 1500whp. Stock 4g63's can put down 800whp. Nissan SR20's. I just had some guy mad at me for doing yet ANOTHER LSx Swap... he told me "Why not swap in a Coyotte, They blow the LSx away!" ... Yeah Uhm, No! In so many ways, No!

I will argue the LSx, Just because I know first hand what it is. Yeah its Pretty long, What are you expecting? Your adding another row of 4" Pistons. But the gains outweigh the work done and the Cost. At this point, I'll put an LSx in anything! lol. Unless another motor is found that can dish it out with the competition.

This same setup with just a cam made 711whp!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHGxrAENwMs

[GTA_G20]

I personally bought a 97 boxster with a blown motor 7 years ago as a toy. I then bought a 3.6L and 80% of the electrical. Then started calling around to see which indy would swap it.
1 year later I bought a used 2.5. $5k installed

I personally have little interest in taking a sawzall to my boxster to cram a chevy in there. Swaps 5k and under is reasonable. 5k swap for 300hp v8 is a no brainer to me. Especially comimg from 205hp.

anything over 5k im buying a new car

[Pdwight]

As was stated very eloquently , there are two different mindsets here. I am of the one who likes his Boxster and while I would love to drive the LS conversion just to experience it I think closer to home would be what I would want. An extra 100 HP would be more than enough for this 60 year old if the car remained pretty much stock otherwise. It has nothing to do with converting it back to stock....if Achme came out with a 350 HP bullet proof engine that bolted in I would be up for it. That was one of the reasons I posed the question why not a Cayenne V8...or are they riddled with their own set of problems.

I like a spirited discussions but I am in no way starting a flame war. PS I looked around the Southeast and good LS's are no where to be found for 1200 bucks here

[DarkStar]

No flame war... we're just automotive talking.

And I live in the Southeast. Plenty of LS engines from 4.8 up to built LSx. There's a couple 5.3s, an LS1 and an LS3 in new mexicos locals. .. plus tonnnnnssssss of people with parts galore. One of the LS1s I just saw today we're going for 800. No trans or ecu tho.

www.RacingSouthwest.com or www.TrueStreetCars.com

Like I said, I just picked up a 5.3 for 280. Local. He was asking 500, as I called and we spoke turns out it's a friend of a friend. So I got him down to 280. Hehe. Also New Mexico UPULLANDSAVE has quite a few.

Originally Posted by Pdwight

As was stated very eloquently , there are two different mindsets here. I am of the one who likes his Boxster and while I would love to drive the LS conversion just to experience it I think closer to home would be what I would want. An extra 100 HP would be more than enough for this 60 year old if the car remained pretty much stock otherwise. It has nothing to do with converting it back to stock....if Achme came out with a 350 HP bullet proof engine that bolted in I would be up for it. That was one of the reasons I posed the question why not a Cayenne V8...or are they riddled with their own set of problems.

I like a spirited discussions but I am in no way starting a flame war. PS I looked around the Southeast and good LS's are no where to be found for 1200 bucks here

[stephen wilson]

How do these engine swaps get registered and inspected ( legally )? In N.J. it looks like I'm SOL unless the engine is from a newer car, by the same manufacturer, and class of vehicle. I'd love to do a swap on my Toyota, but same problem...

[BoxsterLS376]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

How do these engine swaps get registered and inspected ( legally )? In N.J. it looks like I'm SOL unless the engine is from a newer car, by the same manufacturer, and class of vehicle. I'd love to do a swap on my Toyota, but same problem...

In Georgia all it has to do is pass the OBD readiness test which basically means if you don't have a check engine light on you pass.

The emissions place simply scanned the car and when they went to plug it up I just redirected them to the GM OBD port in stead of the factory port. Done and done.
J

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

How do these engine swaps get registered and inspected ( legally )? In N.J. it looks like I'm SOL unless the engine is from a newer car, by the same manufacturer, and class of vehicle. I'd love to do a swap on my Toyota, but same problem...

New Mexico is emissions Nazis... not like cali but as long as it passes an OBD2 check (passes 2/3rds of the tests built into the CEL system) it passes emissions. Most states are the same. Some are more lenient. But I always say, they don't need to know what's under the hood. Lol find yourself a friend that works at an emissions place and troubles are solved.

[philipjayadler]

This is the ugliest damn thing I have ever seen! Who the "!!!!!"
would cut up a car this way, let alone a Porsche?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[DarkStar]

You obviously don't know what your even talking about. There is nothing ugly about it. Maybe Martsink's design of a firewall, but that was his choice. And what does Porsche have to do with it?

Stock 5.3's have put down to the ground, 250whp, where as a stock Boxster S will see 200. Stock 5.3's with just a turbocharger and tune can and have put down quad digit HP numbers and even more Torque, no internal modifications. And to input a LSx into a Boxster, only mild cutting and rewelding to "in the way" unibody is required. Its been done a few times already, and as BoxsterLS376 has shown, has been done to easilly gain 450whp (Wheel Horsepower, not Flywheel) to look stock, and almost sound stock.

Originally Posted by philipjayadler

This is the ugliest damn thing I have ever seen! Who the "!!!!!"
would cut up a car this way, let alone a Porsche?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

In Fact, John does a lovely job to make it look as stock as possible.

[BoxsterLS376]

The silence is deafening~

I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Nerv]

Well it would seem I have to come on here to see if there have been comments, as I'm not being notified.

Progress? Well, we keeping putting hours into this as time permits. I wanted to have this finished by now so guys could get the kits to work on the cars during the winter. Oh well, as soon as it is running, you will all be notified.

Don't worry, this is on project that isn't getting dropped, we have too many hours into it now! Hahaha!

At least she'll be pretty. So what if almost no one can see the engine? The owner will know what she looks like, maybe carry around a binder with photos so they can show others if they ask

Be in touch!

Dave@Nerv

[bc993]

Originally Posted by Nerv

Well it would seem I have to come on here to see if there have been comments, as I'm not being notified.

Progress? Well, we keeping putting hours into this as time permits. I wanted to have this finished by now so guys could get the kits to work on the cars during the winter. Oh well, as soon as it is running, you will all be notified.

Don't worry, this is on project that isn't getting dropped, we have too many hours into it now! Hahaha!

At least she'll be pretty. So what if almost no one can see the engine? The owner will know what she looks like, maybe carry around a binder with photos so they can show others if they ask

Be in touch!

Dave@Nerv

One would think like all of us who have put forth an interest in your concept/kit, you would have already created motor mounts and installed the engine and mounted transmission into a boxster frame before spending all the CAD time you say you have done on fabbing parts (ie:dry sump and intake) . Do you have photos of the ABZ in your donor vehicle sans intake and pan? Please pm me when you have something of substance as I'm done with this thread until then. Good Luck.

[Nerv]

Good day everyone!

As requested by BC993, some photos of the engine in the car. The scanning is a time consuming process that isn't finished... but I can still give you some shots of the actual car to give confidence in progress.



The dry sump isn't necessary but intake changes and new components that allow for front engine mounting are.

The RHS timing belt cover should be remade anyway, half of the front mounting may be off this cover, because of the extra bosses it has already built in. The alternator and air conditioning mounts may both be redesigned and rebuilt to swap their locations for easier A/C plumbing. This is no small task due to the complexity of the alternator mount because it has the oil cooler and filter assemblies integrated into the mount. Many people get rid of this design but for this specific application the cooler/filter design fits well. If they are redesigned likely the mounting needed for the front will be built into these.

Independent throttle bodies are in the works for the intake, to get the OEM unit to fit without cutting anything it would put the engine/transmission a little low and still there is almost no space for the OEM throttle body. We have both the 4V ABZ and 5V V8's here and although there are some design changes to the 5V that make it a little easier to install, I think with ITB the 4V will still be a better choice. With the length of velocity stacks that will be used and losing the 2 length intake system the torque will drop but max HP will increase thus reducing the strain on the OEM 5 speed transmission. A new flywheel is being designed as well that will accept the 10 bolt crank pattern and actually place the timing ring in the proper orientation for the manual transmission pickup location.

That is it for now, I'll post again soon once we have machined some of these parts.

Regards,

Dave@Nerv

[BOOTLEG]

Nerv,

That looks like "substance" to me. My S sits patiently waiting for a heart transplant so I will not turn the channel. I will continue to follow your progress.

Thanks for the update.

[B6T]

Originally Posted by Nerv

A new flywheel is being designed as well that will accept the 10 bolt crank pattern and actually place the timing ring in the proper orientation for the manual transmission pickup location.

That is it for now, I'll post again soon once we have machined some of these parts.

Regards,

Dave@Nerv

Did you consider the FWD 6-speed transmission from the B6 chassis A4?

Pros:
- Crank position sensor is in the correct location
- You can use an off the shelf flywheel and clutch
- Correct starter location for the V8
- 01A based like the Boxster transmission

Cons:
- Have to design shift mechanism since these are rod actuated and the mechanism is on the LH side. The kit car guys might have something in existence that works already though.
- Mounts - but you're designing those anyway.

Unknowns:
- Axles, but you might be able to find an VW/Audi axle that works.


I have actually purchased a 2.7tt to swap. I was looking for a base 2.7t 2000+ car since that Motronic version integrates better with the ME7 based 2.7t and V8 Audi stuff than does the older non-E-gas Boxsters. I ended up finding a nice 2003 Boxster S which I plan to keep H6 for the time being. So swap plans are on hold.

Until this point I've done a lot of thought about how I'd do the swap, but no actual measurement since I didn't have the Boxster to take measurements from. I also don't have a $80,000 laser scanner available, nor a machine shop, despite having used those scanners at work and having mechanical design and CNC programming experience. I wish I had your resources! Let me know if I can help out at all!

[The Radium King]

would the dry sump let you get the engine a bit lower and perhaps make intake and accessory fab a bit easier? itbs are tough to do well on this car as it is pretty hard to get cool air in there.

[Nerv]

Radium King:

You are right, the dry sump is the way we need to go. Changing the intake design other than redesigning the throttle body to manifold adapter would result in such a major change to the engine that keeping the OEM ECU happy with all the emissions components that need to be retained would be a huge task in of itself. With all the parts that already need to be built, no use making it harder yet.

With the dry sump I can lower the engine as far as possible and moving it further forward which will improve handling as well.

I'll keep you posted.

[timetraveler2222]

I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. After getting out of my 2013 Chevy Impala LTZ it occurred to me that a really great conversion would be a GM V-6. The one in my Chevy Impala puts out 310 HP and will easily rev up to it's redline of 6800 rpm. It is extremely torquey with the six speed automatic and believe it or not puts a lot of cars to shame stop light to stop light. The Caddy turbocharged V-6 (same basic engine architecture) puts out an easy 450 hp and they are starting to show up in the scrap yards. Think about it a second. A modern GM engine, turbocharged that any Chevy of Caddy dealer could work on. I love V-8's (used to have a 1974 454 4 speed Corvette) but they will be disappearing in the next few years. Even Porsche is downsizing their engines. Have you seen the new 718 Boxster? It comes with a turbocharged flat four!
Now everyone can laugh at me but I speak from a base of experience. I worked at the GM Tech Center many years ago and I can tell you that engine design and development is not standing still. A turbocharged V-6 would be perfect in a Boxster.