Metal Shavings Behind LN IMS Bearing - Need Advice!

[Perfectlap]

$679 and the PO gets a $20 fugazy?

Hmmm me thinks that shop pulled a fast one thinking no one would check.

Please post the name of the shop

Someone was clever enough not to write LNE in the part description. That way it couldn't be refuted from LN's records,
the bearing would need to be pulled to call bs on the shop's claim that the bearings were at least ceramic. Deniability!


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[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

$679 and the PO gets a $20 fugazy?

Hmmm me thinks that shop pulled a fast one thinking no one would check.

Please post the name of the shop

Someone was clever enough not to write LNE in the part description. That way it couldn't be refuted from LN's records,
the bearing would need to be pulled to call bs on the shop's claim that the bearings were at least ceramic. Deniability!

They did write the part number, and if you google that number it appears to be the LN kit.

I purposely didn't include the name of the shop for a few reasons. As stated earlier in a quote from Buck Turgidson in Dr. Strangelove, "I'd like to wait until all the facts are in". I hastily put "LN" in the title of this thread, only to find out that it very well appears to be a knockoff cheapo bearing. Not very fair to the LN folks. I have a receipt from 4 years ago that says one was put in. I don't know if it has since been changed, or if in fact the shop put one over on the PO. If I had owned the car then and could know 100%.

I'm still mulling it over.... Right now I'm more concerned with what I need to do in order to clean everything out and getting it back on the road. I can't change the past, only deal with it.

"Gentlemen! There's no fighting in here, this is the war room!" - President Merkin Muffley, Dr. Strangelove

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

They did write the part number, and if you google that number it appears to be the LN kit.

I purposely didn't include the name of the shop for a few reasons. As stated earlier in a quote from Buck Turgidson in Dr. Strangelove, "I'd like to wait until all the facts are in". I hastily put "LN" in the title of this thread, only to find out that it very well appears to be a knockoff cheapo bearing. Not very fair to the LN folks. I have a receipt from 4 years ago that says one was put in. I don't know if it has since been changed, or if in fact the shop put one over on the PO. If I had owned the car then and could know 100%.

I'm still mulling it over.... Right now I'm more concerned with what I need to do in order to clean everything out and getting it back on the road. I can't change the past, only deal with it.

"Gentlemen! There's no fighting in here, this is the war room!" - President Merkin Muffley, Dr. Strangelove

Apologies to this un-named shop.

Although their pre-IMS swap inspection procedure looks like a question mark.

Was this car a low-miles garage queen before the PO took ownership? (as in it sat for long periods between oil changes).

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by woodsman

It looks like the whole bearing has been spinning in the bore- no? Those chips may have come from the face of the bore- where it's shiny. Got telescopic gauges and a 3-4 micrometer?

No, the best I have right now is a dial caliper.

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Apologies to this un-named shop.

Although their pre-IMS swap inspection procedure looks like a question mark.

Was this car a low-miles garage queen before the PO took ownership? (as in it sat for long periods between oil changes).

I'll have to look back at the stack of paperwork that came with the car. I think I'm the 5th owner. 72k as of 2010 and just over 80k now.

[cnavarro]

I will say that the single row bearings are not tolerant of debris at all where we know the dual row bearing will take much more abuse and just keep chugging along even laden with FOD (but not indefinitely). It's quite possible a PO had the IMS Retrofit procedure carried out as a reactionary repair because the original bearing had failed.

I would be curious to see what's in the sump.

There usually isn't tell-tale signs of damage to the intermediate shaft like there is with a single row bearing so it's hard to get a complete picture. As part of our qualification procedure when rebuilding an IMS, we spin test the shaft and check for runout in the gear and housing bore to detect damage to the intermediate shaft because often shops send us IMSs with the original bearing already removed so we don't know what condition the original bearing was in.

[cnavarro]

It sure looks like there was a prior failure and there is contamination from the original failed bearing. The bearing looks very clean on the open end that is exposed to the engine oil and sump. If there was a problem with the bearing itself, I would expect to see some kind of contamination here as well. Is the bearing actually magnetized or is the debris pattern just appear to be that way?

That bearing is likely one of ours and is probably a kit we built in late 2009 or early 2010. I would be interested in getting that bearing back to have the manufacturer inspect it since they'll be able to give us a detailed report for that bearing and verify it is indeed one of ours since we have used JAF and other manufacturers for races in the past. We switched to IJK over for years ago according to the manufacturer.

All LN bearings have always had a seal on the back side of the bearing that faces the IMS tube to limit oil intrusion into the IMS, but not stop it. It's not possible to prevent oil from getting by the seal completely.

JAF is a well respected Japanese brand. Our supplier use their races and cages. Then the bearings are assembled for us with Japanese or US-sourced ceramic balls. Currently we use both SKF and Cerbec balls, both USA made. Timken / Fafnir make ceramic hybrid bearings, but not the balls themselves as they buy their balls from Cerbec as well. Everything is measured and every bearing is blueprinted. LN bearings don't just come off a shelf somewhere and get re-labeled. We use the best bearing guy in the industry for ceramics. If you go to a Motion Industries and try to order an ultra high end ceramic hybrid bearing, all roads lead to him. We have always from day one used the same source and went to him because of his reputation and quality.

[Benjamin]

Thank you for the reply, Charles. If anyone would know the LN suppliers, it would be you. I'll PM you in regards to the bearing inspection.

[woodsman]

It looks like the whole bearing has been spinning in the bore- no? Those chips may have come from the face of the bore- where it's shiny. Got telescopic gauges and a 3-4 micrometer?