Should I buy this car? (Warning, air-cooled 911 content)
 

I've been dreaming of an old 911 forever, and in the last couple years more specifically about getting an ok example that I can backdate. Good enough as a base car, but not so nice or original that I wouldn't dare mod it. So I found this 1981 SC, originally a USA model, imported to Norway in 2011. 157K miles. Paint and interior are original and showing wear/sun fade, and the blue interior is not my favorite. Wheels are genuine Fuchs.

Current owner has done a lot of mechanical work to the car including a full engine rebuild 6K miles ago, complete new Dansk stainless exhaust including heat exchangers, all engine hoses are new, chain tensioners and head studs upgraded, brake calipers rebuilt, new brake hoses and pads, drive axle joints, tranny oil changed, new tires 7.5K ago, etc. etc. All work done by one of this country's most highly regarded shops and all receipts since import come with the car. Incomplete service history from the US but a few bits.

I won't tell you the price because there is no way to compare prices here with the USA. Lets just say the seller has spent more just fixing the car then you guys would spend on a really nice SC or even a 3.2, but his price is probably not unreasonable considering the work done and prices in this market. Looks like a car I could enjoy for a couple years and do the cosmetic stuff as I go… if I can convince Mrs. 9eleven that my second P-car purchase in a year is a good idea. :eek:

I guess someone here must have had one of these and can comment?

http://www.evan.com/boxster/minerva01.jpg

http://www.evan.com/boxster/minerva02.jpg

http://www.evan.com/boxster/minerva03.jpg

No need for the warning haha.... Looks great, and even if the price is a bit high, it sounds like you'd be able to get the money back out of it if not more. I wouldn't sweat the blue interior either i feel that it fits the car... i know nothing mechanically of air cooled 911s though so ill leave it at that for the other guys to comment upon.... as for me though i think it looks great and i hope that if you do buy that you are happy with the car.

It looks like a well maintained 911. I haven't had much direct experience with the SC line, but I've ready they are very reliable. Its Norwegian service records sound great too.

This is probably just personal preference, but if I were looking for an older 911 (i.e. not 964 or 993) I'd probably focus on finding a late model year 3.2 (1987-89) with the better transmission.

That said I have no clue what the Norwegian p-car market is like. Finding a late model 3.2 might be near impossible.

I'm thinking a new couch or jewelry or something is in your future;) It looks like a well maintained, 33 year old 911. I think you have already made your decision:cheers:

Looks like a great car. If you feel the price is fair I don't think you can go too wrong with a air cooled 911.

I just read an article in the European magazine Porsche and 911 comparing the SC and Carreras of similar years and it talked about the reliability of the 3.0 engine and how "zippy" it was but the more refined car was the 3.2 carrera with the g50 gearbox. There used to be a big price difference between the 2 cars but that gap has now closed

I love the color of the car you posted and it seems very well cared for

Go for it !
But good PPI is not superfluous...

SC's have taken off here too. But there was an interesting article recently, in on of the antique car magazines, that cautioned against buying the more accessible 911's during a spike in pricing. Their contention was that these were the first to drop in value and would drop furthest when the market cooled. And ALL MARKETS go up and down. Their belief was that if you're going to make a big investment in a garage queen that you should hold out for one of the more exclusive cars when the market wasn't so hot.

If you're 70-100% certain you'll keep this car forever this might be a good buy since the engine rebuild was recent and it will take you a long time to rack up mileage on the car.

You will love the car. I bought a 1974 about 4 years ago and a Boxster this last December. The joy of an older car is Great ! You can tinker with them there are thousands of little projects. The Boxster is great to drive but I never take the 74 anywhere that someone doesn't want to talk about it. On the down side defrost, good heat, or decent air-conditioning are just dreams. Buy it.

Thanks everyone!


Thanks! I love tinkering. As for A/C, this is Norway for crying out loud! The heat probably works ok in the summer, don't you think?:D



Interesting perspective. The funny thing is that the market for these cars is just starting to heat up here, behind the rest of the world. But cars are so breathtakingly expensive here anyway no matter what you buy. While this one isn't cheap, its not way out there either and the current owner has eaten the cost of a lot of repairs. Possibly to my benefit. :)


PPI will be done if I move forward on it, for sure!


Its a funky color for sure, but its growing on me. I've never driven a G50 car, but the 915 gearbox is a classic! For refinement I have other less exciting cars.


:cheers:


Wife wants to build a new house with a view. If I get the 911 I have to give in. And she says that my toys are expensive! :eek:


The mid eighties cars can be found but I don't see many late ones. A pristine original '85 Carrera with 30K miles sold last week for almost $70K... in one day! That said, a project car can be had for a fraction of that. This SC appeals to me since I'll eventually redo it cosmetically and backdate it anyway, and considering the new motor and all its not a bad deal.

I bought a 1987 911 coupe last summer, a couple of weeks after my dad bought a 1999 Boxster. The cars are totally different. The Boxster feels like a modern car, whereas the 911 feels like it's from another era, which I guess it was.

But ask both of us which one we prefer, and we'd both say the 911. There's just something about an air-cooled Porsche 911 that is just very appealing, from the smell of oil to the stiff clutch to the various creaks and groans in a 25+ year old car.

The 915 vs G50 transmission difference is real. Having driven a number of 911s during my search, the 915 transmission can be very vague compared to the G50. However, I believe 915 transmissions can be fixed/adjusted to be very smooth, and with experience can be just as easy to use.

As others have noted, the major expenses are engine and transmission rebuilds. If this one already has had that work done, then it should be good for another 50-75k miles.

I would definitely buy it, you won't regret it.

I have a 1983 911SC coupe and love it. I have done a lot of mods to the suspension and I'm running 46mm PMO carburetors, SSI heat exchangers with a M&K 2 in 2 out muffler she sounds wonderful. The SC's are just raw enough to give you the vintage feel but modern enough to be comfortable. I have gone with backdated fiberglass front/rear bumpers plus a fiberglass ducktail. I've done autocross and DE events with mine plus drive on the street they are a great all around car. If you like the car, have the money and a PPI says she's good I say go for it.

Nice! Please tell me about how much of a PITA the carburetor retrofit was, how the power is now, the experience of backdating it, and of course, pictures please!

I made an air cooled 911 purchase 2 1/2 years ago, since then as to be expected I've concentrated my quest for info towards that type of Porsche and have been nothing short of fascinated and enamored with the cars / information and the group of guys involved. Spend a bit of time browsing Rennlist, totally different vibe than from the 986 Forum.

The cars as others have noted are an entirely different animal from the Boxster, but for me at least I would never consider dumping my 993 911 for another Porsche variant, IT IS that cool. From what you have described (prior owners did the heavy lifting maintenance / rebuild wise) I wouldn't think twice about buying it......:cheers:

The carburetor retrofit was no problem at all they fit like a glove and were 95 % tuned right out of the box. PMO does a great job making a modern carburetor. I've had them on now for about 4 years and haven't touched them. Motor is stock internally so the CIS pistons/cams not optimal for carbs but she scoots along just fine. :D The backdating was fun I have a set of " one off " custom front/rear bumpers they are the only ones ever made in the world ! I bought them off a guy on Pelican Parts who is a jack of all trades with fiberglass being one of them. He built the bumpers for his own car but then someone in the family ran into health issues and he had to raise some cash so I bought them. They fit perfect I had no modifications to make other than exhaust cut outs. The fiberglass ducktail was bought used locally. Here are a couple of pics she's quartz gray in color unique to model year 1983 only.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1393118445.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1393118471.jpg

Okay lay it on us. What's a decent SC going for over there?

They seem to be creeping past ~$25K lately. These were $15K cars not long ago.
Here's one with a couple of bids at $22K and some engine work.

Porsche 911 SC | eBay

Well, for starters the exchange rate NOK-USD really makes any comparison way out of balance. Also, new and imported used cars are heavily taxed, so anything in the used market will pass those costs on to future buyers.

An SC like the one you linked to on ebay might be in the neighborhood of $50K, while a project car could be as cheap as $15K. The blue SC is about in the middle of those two, which with all the work and new motor make it pretty fair, actually.

I looked at an '86 3.2 recently that ran but was rusty and not original, not even Fuchs. $26K for a total project car. 964s and 993s are wicked expensive, with the 993s going for $90K and up... way up. Its not just demand, the new car taxes I mentioned getting passed on make up a good chunk as well. Cars older then 30 years get a break, so you can do well importing these now if you find a good one... this will naturally lead to more Carreras showing up here in the next few years. That said, I still like this SC.

And finally, I looked for a Boxster S just for your entertainment. A clean 2004 with about 45' miles is selling for... hold your breath... 62 grand! Don't get me started...

Very nice! Any idea what kind of power its making?

Hmmmm last night I posted a reply with two pictures and now the post/pics are gone did I offend the 986 gods ? :D

$62K for a Boxster and $90+K for a 993? Now that's interesting because in the case of the Boxster the U.S. market is up to its eyeballs in all the water-cooled Porsches, so not just 986's. Whereas as few as ~2,500 993's were sold in the U.S. in its final year. Yet despite this inventory chasm between the air and water-cooled models, your market's premium for the Boxster still puts it within 30% of the far rarer 993? Amazing.
It sounds like this makes an air-cooled car an ironic bargain of sorts. But it seems to me that despite having to shell out more for a more popular 911, like the 964 or 993, the less punitive taxing on old cars better protects you from price fluctuations over a less popular 911. In other words, more of your money is going towards the actual market demand for that 911 and less towards taxes, the currency aspect and the 911 market lifting all the 911 boats -- not a very firm price support. The less popular the 911 model is, the more non-car related issues move the price of that car up or down.

Read the forum in linear mode and you'll see all the posts. This forum has a strange setup that isn't like any BBS I'm on otherwise and its cumbersome. :barf:

I saw your pics and responded, nice car and it must go pretty well!

Here is where the taxes come in to play. The high prices of 993s (which can easily go well over $100K and up too) are both because of demand and because depreciation hasn't had as many years to take the bite out of the new car taxes. Inventory matters, of course, but Norway is also a small country.

The box on the other hand is a much newer car so again less depreciation. My example price was a 2004 S, and that means its original purchase price also included a boatload of extra tax because of the higher horsepower and larger displacement. A slightly older base model would be in the 30-40 grand range with high mileage cars being a fair bit cheaper. Also, the newer the car, the higher the taxes were on it when first sold... These get raised every year.

You wouldn't believe what is costs to buy a decent new car here. Example: new VW Passat wagon. Diesel. Comfortable, safe, relieable transpo for many years and so boring I get depressed just thinking about it. Prepare to spend $100K on that too. My Passat I bought new is 2005 cost me 70 large then. New Boxster base you say? about $160k. My next DD will likely be a Tesla... 460hp for about the same price as the VW because there is no car tax on electric cars here yet. And I can charge it for free just down the road and get everywhere I need to go with free chargers along the way while justfying a couple gas guzzling P-cars. But I digress.


Well said. :)

Can't go wrong with an SC, especially in today's marketplace. You'll make money on the car after just owning it for a year.

That is crazy. So what's the average income for a college graduate working for say at least 10 years? Do they go into debt for the next 20 years to pay off that $100K Passat wagon?

Thanks Jake. I assume you'd also recommend an SC to keep longer term?

College degree and ten years experience I guess that person could be doing pretty well... just guessing but anything from $75k to substantially over six figures depending on what they do and if they live in a big city or do something related to the oil industry. Not that it matters 'cause everything here is expensive. A good craft beer will be at least $15 a pint and up in a bar, again taxes at work. Something has to pay for my "free" health care and standard of living, free education, etc. We have the highest quality of life anywhere in the world. And I know the difference, I'm from New York and lived in several states including Cali before moving over here.

Back to cars. The loaded Passat Alltrack is maybe not fair or representative. There are plenty of comparitively reasonable used cars and even some new ones, but they are still expensive. One of my employees bought a brand new Kia, that ran him $50K. But again... the exchange rate is not in favor of the dollar so it sounds worse then it is. At year 2000 exchange rates that car would have been $35K all things being equal, so you see why, at the start of this post, I didn't want to skew the discussion by bringing price into the equation. Cheers! :cheers:

Now THAT, is just not right.......

Thats one reason I started a brewery. :D

Need a Brew-master?

Or a taster?

Just wonderin'...........

TO

Absolutely. Can't go wrong with an SC, Carrera or 993 in the long term. The only cars that seem to have stagnated are the 964 series.

Jake, what do you mean stagnated? Is it the market for 964's that has?

Yes, they are gaining value slower than cars earlier or later than them... I care nothing about the 964 series, the only one I'd want would be an RS A.

When I was looking it was for primarily a 993 or late 80's 3.2 with the G50 box, like you for whatever reason the 964's never did much for me.

Many of the prognosticators say the 964 is on the cusp of a value breakthrough, who knows. The recent pop in value doesn't mean squat to me, I was just so damn tickled to snag one a few years back and have been enthralled with it so much since that I doubt I'd ever sell regardless of the market.....:cheers:

To me they are an over complex version of a simple car.. I hate the exhaust arrangement most of all!

That car is beautiful!

Probably need at least two tasters;) :cheers:

Getting volunteer tasters is definitely not my biggest hiring challenge. :-)

I have to say after watching a couple seasons of Lilyhammer on Netflix, the thought of moving to Norway has crossed my mind a couple times. Then the weather here in Cali goes back to 65 degrees C in February, and I remember I don't like the cold.